I found the missing Jolt.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Early in the collapses a hard impact leads to a reflection wave in the structure, that causes significant disunification of the upper block leading to increased not decreased acceleration.
At the Scale of the collapses, with the energy values involved, looking for an induced deceleration, is not just putting the cart before the horse, it's hitching the horse rear end backwards, and making the horse pull the cart while walking backwards.
The Jolt and reflection wave cause disunification reducing both the strength of the upper block, and the lower block causing a split second acceleration in the early collapse.
Energy values matter, when determining observations of the magnitude of the towers jolt and it's effects on the structure.

 

[MikeG]

I've said "show me your working" to structural engineers before now, and regretted it instantly..... But it would be interesting if you could illustrate this effect somehow. Us architects, we like pikcha's, you see.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

I've said "show me your working" to structural engineers before now, and regretted it instantly..... But it would be interesting if you could illustrate this effect somehow. Us architects, we like pikcha's, you see.

It is the same phenomenon William Rodriguez, heard when he thought bombs went off in the basement an impact transits down though the building but the strength of the falling block, is to weak to absorb the rebound wave traveling back up though the building, so it absorbs it as disunity of structure not as a bounce or deceleration, but as an Acceleration in disunity.
The travel time for the rebound wave is .186 seconds. So almost undetectable by human standards.

It would effect the collapses similar to removing 2 stories with explosives, it causes early onset acceleration, speeding the collapses, multiple other jolts will occur each one leading to greater disunity and more rapid collapse, as travel time for the rebound wave decreases.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

To put it simply the towers structure is not strong enough, to absorb the rebound wave from an impact as a deceleration, do to the rapid transit of the refelction wave, so it disunified and accelerated, instead.

This also applied even if all columns were alined on impact.

 

[JSanderO]

To put it simply the towers structure is not strong enough, to absorb the rebound wave from an impact as a deceleration, do to the rapid transit of the refelction wave, so it disunified and accelerated, instead.

This also applied even if all columns were alined on impact.

I have no idea what this means.... Can you explain this in laymen's terms?

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

I have no idea what this means.... Can you explain this in laymen's terms?

Basicly a Jolt Occurs in 0.186 seconds and because human perception is to slow to catch it by the time it is observed it is over, and the structure for two stories is destroyed, Causing the multiple jolts, to appear as acceleration not decelerations.

Jolts Occur at 5900 meters per second and the structure is MA>R meaning not enough resistance to absorb a Jolt even if Columns magically alined.

So no jolt is within the range a human can perceive, especially not at the five second sample rate Cters use.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Basicly a Jolt Occurs in 0.186 seconds and because human perception is to slow to catch it by the time it is observed it is over, and the structure for two stories is destroyed, Causing the multiple jolts, to appear as acceleration not decelerations.

Jolts Occur at 5900 meters per second and the structure is MA>R meaning not enough resistance to absorb a Jolt even if Columns magically alined.

So no jolt is within the range a human can perceive, especially not at the five second sample rate Cters use.

Velocity loss is observable in every Verinage demolition and it would be in any demolition where gravity is all that is used to break the full structure after an organized fall. There they are certainly using gravity in the Verinage Technique to demolish the structure once they take out a couple of stories with hydraulics to gain momentum.

It is the velocity loss which is observable and it would take over a second to regain the velocity, so it would certainly be observed. The impulse itself is not observable, but velocity loss is the telltale sign it occurred. Without velocity loss no jolt occurred which was responsible for the destruction of the lower section of the building which could handle several times the load above it.

The Towers and WTC 7 were demolished by removing the central cores for a large number of stories with some form of demolition devices. In the case of the towers, their perimeter corners were also cut to cause them to petal outward and minimize resistance.

 

[jaydeehess]

Velocity loss is observable in every Verinage demolition .

In both connected steel member construction and masonry, or just the later?

I am not sure I've seen video of Verinage being used on a steel column structure.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

In both connected steel member construction and masonry, or just the later?

Why does that matter as far as deceleration being required for an amplified load?

 

[MikeG]

.......The Towers and WTC 7 were demolished by removing the central cores for a large number of stories with some form of demolition devices........

Generally called aeroplanes. You guys might call them airplanes, I think.

 

[jaydeehess]

Why does that matter as far as deceleration being required for an amplified load?

Because steel will have some elasticity compared to stiffer masonry.

 

[jaydeehess]

Is there video of Verinage being used on a steel column structure?

 

[ozeco41]

To put it simply the towers structure is not strong enough, to absorb the rebound wave from an impact as a deceleration, do to the rapid transit of the refelction wave, so it disunified and accelerated, instead.

This also applied even if all columns were alined on impact.

I have no idea what this means.... Can you explain this in laymen's terms?

In layman's terms it is called "gobbledegook".

Step One in explaining it is to decide whether you are talking about real events or a fantasy.

In the real events of WTC 9/11 collapses there never was a "Missing Jolt" - it was a fallacy created by T Szamboti. And it is also the single most significant success that Tony has had. He has a lot of debunkers agreeing that the scenario for a jolt - drop to impact - actually happened. It didn't so you can join me in congratulating Tony - he has conned quite a few with that half of his nonsense.

It is WRONG as has been explained many times.

HOWEVER if you want to join Crazy Chainsaw and/or T Szamboti discussing fantasies - be my guest.

 

[beachnut]

... It is the velocity loss which is observable and it would take over a second to regain the velocity, so it would certainly be observed. The impulse itself is not observable, but velocity loss is the telltale sign it occurred. Without velocity loss no jolt occurred which was responsible for the destruction of the lower section of the building which could handle several times the load above it.

Nope, it takes 0.07 0.1 seconds for the velocity to be regained. Next time use physics instead of BS made up to support the idiotic lie and fantasy of CD.
A second? NO, lol,

... over a second

Got math? No, only a failed fantasy of CD by silent explosives. .07-.1 second is not over a second. You need a frame rate of better than 20 frames a second to catch the theoretical period in question. And you need the resolution to match. You failed to do the math, and have no evidence.

In the chaotic collapse, the so called jolt would be smoothed out because the collapse was not symmetrical, and the mass from the upper section was not hitting the lower floor at the same time... etc..

...The Towers and WTC 7 were demolished by removing the central cores for a large number of stories with some form of demolition devices. In the case of the towers, their perimeter corners were also cut to cause them to petal outward and minimize resistance.

More fantasy. Where is 911 truth's, aka a movement of really stupid lies, evidence? E=mgh destroyed the WTC complex, simple physics 9/11 truth can't comprehend.

 

[ozeco41]

The Towers and WTC 7 were demolished by removing the central cores for a large number of stories with some form of demolition devices.

Generally called aeroplanes. You guys might call them airplanes, I think.

..or "aircraft" or specific maker or model types. I can never remember which is UK and which is US and - typical Aussie - we get lost between the two.

I'm slowly becoming "tri-lingual" (UK, AU and now bits of US English)

Still need to remember that 9/11 does not mean 9th November....but,

...and that IMO was probably one reason why the Brits had their event on 7/7.





Meanwhile I will return members to the chasing of rabbits down some familiar rabbit burrows.

Remember that in the real WTC 9/11 events there never was a "Missing Jolt"

.... the scenario never existed.

..and reality was (possibly) the "Unrecognised Scrunch"

 

[JSanderO]

I am not a proponent of an observable jolt... it's nonsense because columns were not made to instantly disappear such that the structure above comes down and impacts the columns below. Intact column hitting slabs would produce an imperceptible "jolt" or slowing of the top dropping.

This is a totally illogical... and ass backward thinking.

 

[beachnut]

I am not a proponent of an observable jolt... it's nonsense because columns were not made to instantly disappear such that the structure above comes down and impacts the columns below. Intact column hitting slabs would produce an imperceptible "jolt" or slowing of the top dropping.

This is a totally illogical... and ass backward thinking.

It is simple physics, there is a velocity change and conservation of momentum. In a model the first speed change is .66 m/s and it will take 0.7 second to get back that lost speed. Since the WTC was not a model, but a real building, the floor connections and crushing was not all at once, but what ever overload from the mass falling above was first, and any speed changes would be masked by the chotic collapse. But speed changes have to happen when moving mass hits a slower or static mass, it is physics. To catch a perfect model collapse speed changes, you need to sample at least 20 f/s, and have the resolution to catch the speed change. This math and physics, and if 9/11 truth wants to claim there should be a visible speed change, they miss the fact the collapse speed is nearly the same as a momentum model of each floor failing as the upper mass hits. Which means the average collapse speed seen has the "missing jolt" built in, has the momentum transfers in a gravity field reflected in the speed of collapse.

I think 9/11 truth has a problem with floors failing instantly (aka an imperceptible time for a floor to fail when overloaded like 9/11 upper mass falling), they can't do reality.

Tony's over a second to regain speed is a good sign he is pure woo. LOL, over a second? 0.869 for the first impact, 0.397 next one, 0.314 etc, 0.272, 0.245, 0.226, 0.212, 0.201, 0.192, how can it be over a second when the impacts are less than a second? Does anyone try to do the physics part to check their failed lies and CD theory of woo. Not 9/11 truth.

 

[ozeco41]

I am not a proponent of an observable jolt... it's nonsense because columns were not made to instantly disappear such that the structure above comes down and impacts the columns below. Intact column hitting slabs would produce an imperceptible "jolt" or slowing of the top dropping.

Spot on correct Sander.

But many members are still loyal to Tony's "drop to impact" fantasy.

As I have said several times recently - to make it happen you would need a 1500ft high mobile crane capable of kilo tonne hoist to hold the Top Block whilst you cut the columns.

Even explosive CD would NOT achieve Tony's "Missing Jolt" without throwing bits of columns over most of Manhattan. And it would still NOT create the "Missing Jolt" scenario.

AND don't miss the reality that Tony's latest version of his "cut core columns" fantasy REBUTS "Missing Jolt".

Tony as a truther doesn't need to be either coherent or consistent. The rest of us poor mortals don't have that luxury.

This is a totally illogical... and ass backward thinking.

At least. It is actually not thinking at all IMO. Especially when Tony has been made well aware of the errors in his "thinking".

 

[rwguinn]

I think we have moved several letters too far up the alphabet...

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Nope, it takes 0.07 0.1 seconds for the velocity to be regained. Next time use physics instead of BS made up to support the idiotic lie and fantasy of CD.
A second? NO, lol,

Got math? No, only a failed fantasy of CD by silent explosives. .07-.1 second is not over a second. You need a frame rate of better than 20 frames a second to catch the theoretical period in question. And you need the resolution to match. You failed to do the math, and have no evidence.

In the chaotic collapse, the so called jolt would be smoothed out because the collapse was not symmetrical, and the mass from the upper section was not hitting the lower floor at the same time... etc..

More fantasy. Where is 911 truth's, aka a movement of really stupid lies, evidence? E=mgh destroyed the WTC complex, simple physics 9/11 truth can't comprehend.

What?