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Continuation Part 21: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Desert Fox said:
While I have Vixen on ignore, I can read messages which others can respond to.
I notice that Vixen seems worked up both that Amanda might be bisexual, which I did not get from her book but who cares, and that she is not a Christian. Seems like somebody is letting their prejudice through.
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What is it Woody Allen says about bisexuality? It doubles your chance of a date for Saturday night.
 
Kauffer said:
Yes, I agree with all this. I'm still smarting at the 11:30pm Profazio/Mignini 'She doesn't have an alibi' phone call. Did this come up earlier than the latest MR? Profazio's testimony in the main trial seems to be available only in Italian, but maybe it never came out then.
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Not sure about that. What is clear to me is that once the police start attacking someone's alibi, they suspect that the person was involved in the crime.
 
Diocletus said:
I'm guessing that the point of the post 1:45 interrogation and ensuing 5:45 declaration was to engender a new statement that Mignini would call "spontaneous". He was thinking that the 1:45 statement might be no good (because he knew her rights had been violated), and therefore trying to take advantage of a loophole in Italian law that would admit a "spontaneous statement" notwithstanding violation of rights. Unfortunately for Mignini, no one ever bought that the 5:45 statement was "spontaneous", and furthermore, this loophole doesn't exist under the ECHR, so Italian law on "spontaneous statements" is illegal. So basically, Mignini was illegally trying to take advantage of an illegal loophole. What a tool.
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But why wouldn't you believe Mignini? Machiavelli on this very thread has assured us that the interrogation ended at 2:00 am. He's buttressed this fact by claiming that anyone who denies it is a liar and an obvious dupe of the PR Supertanker which seeks to vilify Mignini.

You do not believe Mignini? He's explained to CNN's Drew Griffin that what he did following 2 am with Knox was very legal - he assured her that if she wished to continue with spontaneous statements he could record them, as if only as a notary.

The PM was a notary and the translator was a mediator - ah, er, a diplomat.

I mean, Knox herself agrees with Mignini. She starts her 5:45 am memorale with, "I wish to spontaneously declare....."! It's obvious that she herself, even without an Italian lawyer present, understood the legal issues at stake, and wanted to relieve Mignini of the burden of the 1:45 am memorale.

All she was doing was helping out.

Poor poor Giuliano. My bet is that all the subsequent predatory prosecutions claims of defamation to restore his reputation all go his way. I bet his peers stand with him in lock step to declare that he had not deprived Sollecito of his inalienable rights.

The March 2015 exoneration? A flesh wound.
 
For future reference.... from the Boninsegna motivations report, where Knox was provisionally acquitted of offenses against those named, in relation to Knox's claim she was hit at interrogation.....

Identified as the persons offended:
Anna Donnino (Perugia Police); Rita Ficarra (Perugia Flying Squad); Lorena Zugarini
(Perugia Flying Squad); Ivano Raffa (SCO Roma); Luca Scatigno (Perugia Flying
Squad); Fabio D’Astolto (Perugia Police).

CONSIDERED AS FACTS AND MATTERS OF LAW

The defendant was summoned to trial by the Judge of the Preliminary hearings
with the decree of 20-Mar-2015, for the facts cited in the charges.
The case is a follow-on of a more complex and serious one, regarding the
murder of Meredith Kercher, a young English student, which occurred in Perugia
between 01-Nov and 02-Nov-2007. Those proceedings concluded with the exoneration of the defendant of murder, that she was accused of together with her
boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito​
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Then there is this about the planned nature of the interrogation.... from an Italian judge!

It can be, therefore, concluded that the chosen investigative practices induced
in the defendant the conviction, or the reasonable doubt, that she was being subjected to a planned, oppressive and unfair investigative action - this also takes
into account Knox’s definitive acquittal in the main criminal trial because she did not
commit the crime of murder - in light of the overall way in which her interrogation
was performed.​
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Ok, ok, I'm late to the party.
 
Bill Williams said:
For future reference.... from the Boninsegna motivations report, where Knox was provisionally acquitted of offenses against those named, in relation to Knox's claim she was hit at interrogation.....

​

Then there is this about the planned nature of the interrogation.... from an Italian judge!

​
Ok, ok, I'm late to the party.
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At least you showed up. Pour yourself a cold one :)
 
Vixen said:
Party away. I just hope you guys don't end up being persons #11 on this unfortunate list of losers.

https://youtu.be/wPieeHkob_4
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lol, it's not a competition. If Amanda was in prison right now she'd still be factually innocent and the evidence would still be less than zero. There'd just be a lot of idiots satisfied some girl they never met is rotting away in a dungeon.
 
Vixen said:
Party away. I just hope you guys don't end up being persons #11 on this unfortunate list of losers.

https://youtu.be/wPieeHkob_4
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That's pretty funny Vixen. Thanks for that. But it's not going to cost me a thing either way. And hey, I could be wrong. It has happened before. I'm just looking at the Boninsegna motivation and see all the justification the ECHR needs to rule in Amanda's favor.
 
acbytesla said:
That's pretty funny Vixen. Thanks for that. But it's not going to cost me a thing either way. And hey, I could be wrong. It has happened before. I'm just looking at the Boninsegna motivation and see all the justification the ECHR needs to rule in Amanda's favor.
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At this stage, what could Italy win against Amanda and Raf anyway?
 
Desert Fox said:
At this stage, what could Italy win against Amanda and Raf anyway?
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Not face that's for sure. They might save a few Euros, but this is the case that just keeps on costing them. I really believe Italy will settle. The facts are stacked against them. They would be so much better off putting this in the past. Granted if Mignini has anything to do with it they'll keep fighting. But I think they won't let him get near this case.
 
Desert Fox said:
At this stage, what could Italy win against Amanda and Raf anyway?
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I think the Italian government would love this case to go away quickly and quietly.

I think it's not unlikely that the Italian government will simply admit to the violations of the Convention and offer compensation. I am confident they know that they have no way around the ECHR case-law.
 
Numbers said:
I think the Italian government would love this case to go away quickly and quietly.

I think it's not unlikely that the Italian government will simply admit to the violations of the Convention and offer compensation. I am confident they know that they have no way around the ECHR case-law.
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I agree that this would be the most pragmatic (not to mention the most honourable) course for Italy to pursue.

And after that, it will be extremely interesting to see what action and punishment might be meted out to the likes of Mignini, Giobbi, Profazio, Comodi and Stefanoni - the chief architects of this disgrace through their mendacity, wilful lawbreaking, incompetence and obstruction of justice. Italy has something of an ethical obligation to ensure that such individuals are never again able to cause so much harm to other private citizens, and that they are made to pay for what they did to Knox and Sollecito.
 
LondonJohn said:
I agree that this would be the most pragmatic (not to mention the most honourable) course for Italy to pursue.

And after that, it will be extremely interesting to see what action and punishment might be meted out to the likes of Mignini, Giobbi, Profazio, Comodi and Stefanoni - the chief architects of this disgrace through their mendacity, wilful lawbreaking, incompetence and obstruction of justice. Italy has something of an ethical obligation to ensure that such individuals are never again able to cause so much harm to other private citizens, and that they are made to pay for what they did to Knox and Sollecito.
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Not likely anything tangible. This isn't Nifong and the Duke rape case. It's been 8 almost 9 years since Meredith's murder. Everyone has moved on. Mignini has to be close to retirement and cops have their cabal that is very protective of each other. And Italy is legally dysfunctional. So I wouldn't count on anything.
 
acbytesla said:
Not likely anything tangible. This isn't Nifong and the Duke rape case. It's been 8 almost 9 years since Meredith's murder. Everyone has moved on. Mignini has to be close to retirement and cops have their cabal that is very protective of each other. And Italy is legally dysfunctional. So I wouldn't count on anything.
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Yes, I share this outlook as a best guess, unfortunately. Italy's public institutions are stunningly unaccountable and riddled with patronage and self-protection mechanisms. So no, it doesn't bode well at all.
 
LondonJohn said:
Yes, I share this outlook as a best guess, unfortunately. Italy's public institutions are stunningly unaccountable and riddled with patronage and self-protection mechanisms. So no, it doesn't bode well at all.
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Phil Locke at The Innocence Project points out that in the US, no adverse consequences await prosecutors who withhold exculpatory evidence, police who coerce false confessions from people who prove to be innocent, prosecutors who pay snitches to testify against people who prove to be innocent, or even the snitches themselves. Maybe the latter would at least get done for calunnia in Italy, although we've all observed the absurdity of that law's application in practice.
 
LondonJohn said:
And after that, it will be extremely interesting to see what action and punishment might be meted out to the likes of Mignini, Giobbi, Profazio, Comodi and Stefanoni - the chief architects of this disgrace through their mendacity, wilful lawbreaking, incompetence and obstruction of justice.
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What about the judges who collaborated with them?
Italy has something of an ethical obligation to ensure that such individuals are never again able to cause so much harm to other private citizens, and that they are made to pay for what they did to Knox and Sollecito.
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We'd all like to see this, but I'm not too hopeful. The judicial establishment has a way of closing ranks to isolate its agents from the consequences of their actions.

But then if I'm wrong, perhaps it will start a trend. If Italy takes this as an opportunity to tackle judicial corruption, then perhaps the Innocence Project in the US, for example, could gain leverage for US justice to put its house in order. (Not that I'm suggesting that the problem is limited to the US and Italy, of course.)
 
LondonJohn said:
I agree that this would be the most pragmatic (not to mention the most honourable) course for Italy to pursue.

And after that, it will be extremely interesting to see what action and punishment might be meted out to the likes of Mignini, Giobbi, Profazio, Comodi and Stefanoni - the chief architects of this disgrace through their mendacity, wilful lawbreaking, incompetence and obstruction of justice. Italy has something of an ethical obligation to ensure that such individuals are never again able to cause so much harm to other private citizens, and that they are made to pay for what they did to Knox and Sollecito.
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Would this be the same Profazio who found the alleged murderer of Ms Olsson, the American woman, within days? The one who 'hates Americans' so much?
 
acbytesla said:
Not face that's for sure. They might save a few Euros, but this is the case that just keeps on costing them. I really believe Italy will settle. The facts are stacked against them. They would be so much better off putting this in the past. Granted if Mignini has anything to do with it they'll keep fighting. But I think they won't let him get near this case.
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What you have to realise is European countries are not that bothered by ECHR rulings. The UK tried to deport a criminal Somali immigrant and the ECHR ruled it was against his rights to a family life (or something). Home Secretary, Theresa May, just wants out of the Human Rights Act.

If Italy settles, it will be for PR reasons, not HR ones.
 
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Mike1711 said:
Victory is done and dusted. Not that acquittal of utterly innocent people should ever be a victory. It's simply justice.

This is just the cherry on top. Not that there is a cherry on top. It's simply justice.
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Whoa! Steady on: didn't Carlos Dalla Vedova omit to file a complaint as per his professional obligation as an Italian barrister? Oh dear. He forgot.

Could be embarrassing for him to explain why he didn't complain at the time and why the defense team told the court Amanda wasn't hit.

Hold your horses!
 
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