Brexit: the referendum

This, of course, is the reason why China has so much difficulty exporting things to the whole world, including the E.U.
 
CapelDodger said:
The next great fountain of dodgy money to launder into the London property market. Booyah!

Osborne has a thing for big simple ideas. Energy policy? Fracking! Infrastructure? HS2! Britains's future as a trading nation? China!

Such a dick.
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Sounds like the UK's answer to Donald Trump.
 
ceptimus said:
This, of course, is the reason why China has so much difficulty exporting things to the whole world, including the E.U.
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Was that in response to me?

One reason why China finds it relatively easy to export to the EU is BECAUSE the EU has homogenised its standards. Everything it exports complies with those EU (not Chinese) standards. They also don't have free-trade with the EU. Yet. They've been negotiating that since 2013 officially and probably informally for sometime before that.

The idea that the UK can quickly and easily negotiate a favourable FTA with the EU post-Brexit which would allow us to set our own rules and regulations while having free access to EU markets is pie in the sky.
 
dudalb said:
Sounds like the UK's answer to Donald Trump.
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No that's Boris "Hitler wanted to unify Europe, and thanks to the UE you can't buy bunches of bananas nor can kids blow up balloons" Johnson.

He's a Nasty piece of work


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2013/mar/24/boris-johnson-accused-nasty-video

The interview was quite something - every time Johnson wants to change the subject, Mair agreed and moved on to something more damaging. I CBA to get sound but am pretty sure that is the right one...
 
GlennB said:
As for BoJo, I reckon he's totally scuppered his chances of becoming the next Tory leader. Whether the vote is for in or out he's made a lot of enemies.
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So has Trump, and yet ...

Very different kettle of fish, of course. I don't think BoJo will be leader because he's proved himself to be a flaky lightweight. In the deathless words of Macmillan when firing a minister, "Not up to it". A Prime Minister known as BoJo?

What they'll want is someone of substance, I reckon, someone with "bottom". IDS is out (tried, failed) so I reckon it's Gove against Theresa May, with May to win.
 
dudalb said:
Sounds like the UK's answer to Donald Trump.
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Not nearly. Osborne's pure Establishment, and not at all stupid. He goes for the Big Idea because he's lazy. Trump is stupid and just grabs stuff out of the air.

Boris Johnson is the chap here, and, yes, Berlusconi in Italy.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The idea that the UK can quickly and easily negotiate a favourable FTA ...
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I'm not suggesting it would be quick or easy, but it would be in place 10 years from now.

Lots of people are really concerned with the short term.

Yes leaving the EU would cause economic short term harm. Sadly very few people think longer term than an election cycle.
 
jimbob said:
A lot of those look quite reasonable.
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Except that they aren't at all.

i) is a no brainer and already happens for 99% of companies
ii) is impossible, as in 'you cannae break the laws of physics' impossible
iii) is *extremely* difficult and there's not a single device currently on the market that can do this
iv) is just some arbitrary number that's based on no science whatsoever.

ASH is one of the better places to get info from and by and large they support vaping. For a really good read on the subject one of the best blogs around is Clive Bates Counterfactual. (link is to a recent post discussing the TPD, the rest of his blog is also top notch)

Clive is a former director of ASH and really knows what he's talking about.

Also, whilst the regulations might be EU ones, it is hard to believe that if we were out of the EU, similar regulations wouldn't be implemented by the UK government. |
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The devil is always in the detail and the EU regs get many details wrong, but that's enough about vaping from me for this thread.
 
Lothian said:
Similarly the EU is already a free trade area. Goods in the EU are in free circulation and can cross internal borders tariff free. If we leave there is good change that will change and there will be tariffs unless we agree to the very easy movement of people which is something the out campaigners oppose. I understand this is to be the focus of their campaigning today.
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The campaigns aren't so much engaging with each other as pressing different popular buttons. For Leave it's foreigners, and was always going to be. For Stay it's economics and the practicalities of trade, and was always going to be.

What worries me is the electorate. Always has, always will. I laugh in the face of Brussels, but that lot scare me. I'm well aware of average intelligence, and that half the electorate is less intelligent than that.
 
Ambrosia said:
I'm not suggesting it would be quick or easy, but it would be in place 10 years from now.

Lots of people are really concerned with the short term.

Yes leaving the EU would cause economic short term harm. Sadly very few people think longer term than an election cycle.
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Can you explain why you believe the EU would offer the UK better trade terms than its own members in ten or even a hundred years?

Because that's what you appear to be arguing for.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Can you explain why you believe the EU would offer the UK better trade terms than its own members in ten or even a hundred years?

Because that's what you appear to be arguing for.
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It appears to be the same reason for all "separatist" movements in developed countries i.e. "It will all be better because".
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Can you explain why you believe the EU would offer the UK better trade terms than its own members in ten or even a hundred years?

Because that's what you appear to be arguing for.
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Then you misunderstand.

I am saying that some time later (likely 4-5 years) we'd negotiate Free Trade agreements with the EU and other countries. I'm not saying they'd be better terms than an agreement with the whole EU.

They would likely be very similar to a deal the EU got, perhaps slightly worse.

I think though that the ability to set our own laws and not have to think about EU directives could well give the UK a competitive advantage in the longer run.

If an bad law gets made in the UK the process to get it changed is much simpler than getting a bad law that comes from an EU directive changed.
 
CapelDodger said:
So has Trump, and yet ...

Very different kettle of fish, of course. I don't think BoJo will be leader because he's proved himself to be a flaky lightweight. In the deathless words of Macmillan when firing a minister, "Not up to it". A Prime Minister known as BoJo?

What they'll want is someone of substance, I reckon, someone with "bottom". IDS is out (tried, failed) so I reckon it's Gove against Theresa May, with May to win.
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I agree with the May pick.
 
Ambrosia said:
Then you misunderstand.

I am saying that some time later (likely 4-5 years) we'd negotiate Free Trade agreements with the EU and other countries. I'm not saying they'd be better terms than an agreement with the whole EU.

They would likely be very similar to a deal the EU got, perhaps slightly worse.
I think though that the ability to set our own laws and not have to think about EU directives could well give the UK a competitive advantage in the longer run.
If an bad law gets made in the UK the process to get it changed is much simpler than getting a bad law that comes from an EU directive changed.
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The highlighted bit is where you are wrong. EU directives would be very important as the nations of the EU would be very significant trading partners.
 
Darat said:
It appears to be the same reason for all "separatist" movements in developed countries i.e. "It will all be better because".
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I'm not really a separatist. I think the world is naturally becoming more interconnected, and I think this is a good thing.

I am for free* movement of people across the EU (across the whole world would be even better)

I am for sharing of intelligence data between countries to make life harder for criminals

I am for free trade and common markets.

I am against the corrupt, undemocratic, political gravy train that is the European Parliament. As time passes it'll likely get more corrupt, more bloated and it's better I think to scrap it and start over. If we can't do that then it's better to leave and hope that our leaving helps to cause other member states to rethink what the EU is and how it should be going forward.

* Each country should require a visa for entry that you get by going to a website and paying a nominal fee (say £20) which then runs some standard background checks and if you pass those you're free to visit/live/work etc in that country for as long as you like.
 
jimbob said:
The highlighted bit is where you are wrong. EU directives would be very important as the nations of the EU would be very significant trading partners.
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They'd only be important to companies exporting to those trading partners.

If the rules on widgets were less strict in the UK it could help small businesses start up here making widgets and selling to only the UK, before growing large enough to then make widgets that met stricter standards that they could also export.
 
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