Four US states vote to raise minimum wages -- what will the effect be?

[psionl0]

Can I just check what the difference is between worrying about the poor making too much and worrying about the rich making too much? It seems, and this may be confirmation bias and lousy sampling on my part, that those who posit that it's nobodies business what the very rich earn because it's a zero sum game are also those most concerned with the poor earning too much not being in the work houses where they belong.

ftfy.

 

[Brainster]

And the automation continues apace:

Wendy’s (WEN) said that self-service ordering kiosks will be made available across its 6,000-plus restaurants in the second half of the year as minimum wage hikes and a tight labor market push up wages.

It will be up to franchisees whether to deploy the labor-saving technology, but Wendy’s President Todd Penegor did note that some franchise locations have been raising prices to offset wage hikes.

But hey, if you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage, you have no right to be in business just replace them with machines.

 

[psionl0]

And the automation continues apace:

Wendy’s (WEN) said that self-service ordering kiosks will be made available across its 6,000-plus restaurants in the second half of the year as minimum wage hikes and a tight labor market push up wages.

But hey, if you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage, you have no right to be in business just replace them with machines.

Are you blaming minimum wages for a tight labour market?

 

[Puppycow]

And the automation continues apace:



But hey, if you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage, you have no right to be in business just replace them with machines.

I responded to this point earlier in post #19 of this thread, the gist of which was that if raising the minimum wage can actually lead to more automation, that would actually be a good thing. Anything that brings the robot utopia here sooner is good news as far as I'm concerned!

And yeah, people will lose their crappy jobs when that happens, it's an unfortunate side effect, but in the long run human progress can be measured in jobs (tasks) that have become obsolete.

Would you trade all of the jobs for drivers for a world where vehicles can drive themselves and are safer than human drivers? I would. But I am not a driver. Of course, I would like them to have a safety net.

Ultimately I would like a world where nobody has to work, and all the boring, menial work is performed by robots. It would be some sort of quasi-socialist welfare state, but not communism.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

New study 2016:

Our findings are quite clear: in the nearly two dozen instances when the federal minimum wage has been increased, employment the following year has increased in the substantial majority of instances.

Extensive study from 2010; same result:

For the range of minimum wage increases over the past several decades, methodologies using local comparisons provide more reliable estimates by controlling for heterogeneity in employment growth. These estimates suggest no detectable employment losses from the kind of minimum wage increases we have seen in the United States.

 

[BobTheCoward]

New study 2016:

Extensive study from 2010; same result:

The conclusion is partially wrong. It isn't ideology that drives opponents. It is the same logic that drives wage proponents who say a 1000$ minimum wage would be bad.

 

[psionl0]

It is the same logic that drives wage proponents who say a 1000$ minimum wage would be bad.

Yes, WildCat.

 

[cullennz]

Los Angeles just voted to raise the minimum wage to $15 by 2020. It is currently at $9/hour. That better mean my salary goes up another $6/ hour too...

That is the bit they seem to not get.

It has a knock on affect all the way up

I'm all for a decent minimum wage, but hiking it up suddenly by that much just means people losing jobs

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

Raising the minimum wages will lead to it. To me it makes complete sense. If I own a business and I can buy a machine that is now cheaper than wage increased employee, I'm going to do what I can so survive as a business. What bothers me is this also hurts the smaller unique business that are already struggling to stay in business. If it was left alone, they may still have a chance to grow. Also, by setting a minimum wage—the poor individual down on luck who would be happy with any job is hosed.

I am glad you did not say "housed." I do know of one full-time MCDonalds employee whose wife and kids left him when he was unable to get any type of rental housing. Apparently they told him he lacked credit references either good or bad. Once his wife was and kids were gone, he was gone too despite working there for years.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

So did I win the thread or not?

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

The conclusion is partially wrong. It isn't ideology that drives opponents. It is the same logic that drives wage proponents who say a 1000$ minimum wage would be bad.

What logic might that be?

 

[BobTheCoward]

What logic might that be?

There exists some price X that significantly discourages consumption of good X that affects the economy more negatively than the benefits given to the special interest.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

There exists some price X that significantly discourages consumption of good X that affects the economy more negatively than the benefits given to the special interest.

But if evidence supports the notion that raising minimum wages does not cause employment losses, applying the logic you mentioned against increases, could henceforth appear ideological?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That is the bit they seem to not get.

It has a knock on affect all the way up

I'm all for a decent minimum wage, but hiking it up suddenly by that much just means people losing jobs

Who says we don't get that?

Did you miss this part:

New study 2016:
Originally Posted by NELP, Sonn & Lathorp
Our findings are quite clear: in the nearly two dozen instances when the federal minimum wage has been increased, employment the following year has increased in the substantial majority of instances.
Extensive study from 2010; same result:
Originally Posted by IRLE, Dube, Lester & Reich
For the range of minimum wage increases over the past several decades, methodologies using local comparisons provide more reliable estimates by controlling for heterogeneity in employment growth. These estimates suggest no detectable employment losses from the kind of minimum wage increases we have seen in the United States.

 

[BobTheCoward]

But if evidence supports the notion that raising minimum wages does not cause employment losses, applying the logic you mentioned against increases, could henceforth appear ideological?

The whole point of the study was to answer if it does affrct it or and that document invokes ideology. You would have to examine for ideology after the study to figure out if the argument remains ideological.

 

[psionl0]

You would have to examine for ideology after the study to figure out if the argument remains ideological.

Why? The hard data shows no ill effects of a modest MW rise. Money matters.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

The whole point of the study was to answer if it does affrct it or and that document invokes ideology. You would have to examine for ideology after the study to figure out if the argument remains ideological.

Yeah, but the latest study is only, well, the latest one (2016). It's not like it's unique in regards to the outcome. Here's what they have to say about the consensus (thus including past studies). Emphasis mine.

These employment trends after federal minimum-wage increases are not surprising, as they are in line with the findings of the substantial majority of modern minimum-wage research.

Now contrast that to this:

Since the passage of the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938, business interests and conservative politicians have warned that raising the minimum wage would be ruinous. Even modest increases, they’ve asserted, will cause the U.S. economy to hemorrhage jobs, shutter businesses, reduce labor hours, and disproportionately cast young people, so-called low-skilled workers, and workers of color to the bread lines. As recently as this year, the same claims have been repeated, nearly verbatim.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Yeah, but the latest study is only, well, the latest one (2016). It's not like it's unique in regards to the outcome. Here's what they have to say about the consensus (thus including past studies). Emphasis mine.



Now contrast that to this:

So what do opponents say when confronted by that information?

 

[BobTheCoward]

Why? The hard data shows no ill effects of a modest MW rise. Money matters.

I would quibble with the no ill effects statement. It is restricted to certain aggregates.

 

[psionl0]

Source?