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Best Relationship Configuration Poll

What type of social sexual relationship is best suited for Homo Sapiens?

  • Heterosexual monogamy

    Votes: 9 21.4%

  • Hetero or homosexual monogamy

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • Serial monogamy (hetero and/or homo)

    Votes: 13 31.0%

  • Polygamy (one man, multiple females)

    Votes: 3 7.1%

  • Polyandry (one woman, multiple men)

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • Multiple partners for both sexes

    Votes: 3 7.1%

  • Some other thing I'll add below.

    Votes: 12 28.6%
  • Total voters
    42
Best?

Humans:.......individuals, or the whole 8 billion of us?

My basic problem is this: in whose interest are we talking?
 
[X] Female-female
on the Internet.



U thot there was gonna be a picture, didn't you!
 
RogueKitten said:
A hypothetical human society like the US. Interest of the individuals, society, and any resulting children.
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Like I said, I still have no idea what the question even means, I'm afraid. You're asking people to comment on other people's choice of relationships, and judge that in terms of "best". So, you are suggesting that we could say to people who have a certain type of arrangement, "sorry, but your choice isn't the best choice". Sorry, that does not compute. Never mind me. Please carry on.
 
MikeG said:
Like I said, I still have no idea what the question even means, I'm afraid. You're asking people to comment on other people's choice of relationships, and judge that in terms of "best". So, you are suggesting that we could say to people who have a certain type of arrangement, "sorry, but your choice isn't the best choice". Sorry, that does not compute. Never mind me. Please carry on.
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No worries.

I'm reading a book about human mating practices as compared to other apes. It says we are most like bonobos, who have what we would call open relationships. Since church and laws feel the need to legislate us into submitting to monogamy, the authors make the case that we clearly aren't meant to be monogamous. And that we are more like bonobos. So that's why I'm asking.
 
RogueKitten said:
I'm reading a book about human mating practices as compared to other apes. It says we are most like bonobos, who have what we would call open relationships. Since church and laws feel the need to legislate us into submitting to monogamy, the authors make the case that we clearly aren't meant to be monogamous. And that we are more like bonobos. So that's why I'm asking.
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Not meant to be monogamous? That implies some intention, which raises the obvious question of whose intention. The church has an answer for that, but I expect your authors do not.

There is no "meant to" with evolution. There is what we want to do, what works well, and what does not work well. Evolution affects what we want to do, because we usually end up wanting to do what works well, but it's not a given, particularly when societal conditions are far removed from the circumstances in which those desires evolved. In other words, the author's opinions about our similarity to bonobos isn't really relevant.

Historically speaking, monogamous societies have the best long-term track records.
 
Ziggurat said:
Not meant to be monogamous? That implies some intention, which raises the obvious question of whose intention. The church has an answer for that, but I expect your authors do not.

There is no "meant to" with evolution. There is what we want to do, what works well, and what does not work well. Evolution affects what we want to do, because we usually end up wanting to do what works well, but it's not a given, particularly when societal conditions are far removed from the circumstances in which those desires evolved. In other words, the author's opinions about our similarity to bonobos isn't really relevant.

Historically speaking, monogamous societies have the best long-term track records.
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Largely because those same societies have repressed and legislated the sexuality of half the population, in order to "protect" land inheritance.
 
Ziggurat said:
.........Historically speaking, monogamous societies have the best long-term track records.
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Hang on a minute. You've got some evidence for this? I'll be interested to know how you are going to judge whether a society that claims to be monogamous actually was, particularly historically speaking. Even 1940's and 50's "monogamous" western societies which made a scandal of anyone having sex outside wedlock, or worse, falling pregnant outside wedlock, had levels of extra-marital sex which would belie any sensible definition of monogamy. I should know: I'm the product of such a relationship.
 
It appears that primates in their basic state tend to publicly commit to monogamy while both cheating on the other. And that seems to be what humans gravitate towards as well.

I don't know if I like it, but I recognize that it's the evolutionary strategy that got us to this point.


ETA: I don't know if homosexuality is an evolutionary trait or a non-heritable congenital condition or what, nor do I care. Adults can do whatever they want. My statement above is about the general condition of the large majority of humans.
 
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MikeG said:
Hang on a minute. You've got some evidence for this? I'll be interested to know how you are going to judge whether a society that claims to be monogamous actually was
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A society which claims to be monogamous is a society where monogamy is the rule (ie, it encourages monogamy and discourages deviations from monogamy), otherwise it wouldn't bother making that claim. Or more accurately, that is HOW a society makes the claim to be monogamous. Whether or not perfect adherence to the rule was achieved is irrelevant, since no society ever perfectly adheres to any of its rules. The point is what rules society makes, not whether every single person follows the rule. So a society which claims to be monogamous is monogamous, because that's the only way to meaningfully define it at the level of an entire society.
 
OK, so that's your definition of monogamous (I pass no comment), but how about some back-up for your claim that monogamous societies are historically more successful.
 
RogueKitten said:
Largely because those same societies have repressed and legislated the sexuality of half the population, in order to "protect" land inheritance.
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No, RogueKitten, they have "repressed" and legislated the sexuality of the entire population. Do not delude yourself into thinking that there were no restrictions on the sexual behavior of men.

As for the land inheritance, what's your point? The system worked, and it worked better than any of its competitors. You aren't disputing that, merely objecting to the mechanism. You have appealed to evolution (else why would what other apes do matter?), but evolution is not a moral process. If you're going to appeal to evolutionary success as a guide to what we should do, you can't really object on the grounds of morality when the successful strategy is one you have qualms about.
 
MikeG said:
OK, so that's your definition of monogamous (I pass no comment), but how about some back-up for your claim that monogamous societies are historically more successful.
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Europe versus the Middle East, for example.
 
RogueKitten said:
Also, I'm not talking about societies that claim to be monogamous, I'm talking actually doing it.
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Hence me saying "I pass no comment". For a start, who speaks on behalf of a society? In other words, whose word do you take that a society is monogamous? It was a frankly silly statement I was responding to, but it was also a potential diversion.
 
RogueKitten said:
Also, I'm not talking about societies that claim to be monogamous, I'm talking actually doing it.
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What counts as "actually doing it"? What are your criteria? In fact, what are your criteria for all your categories?
 
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