Merged General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 2

[Mycroft]

You have inserted "and the subsequent refusal of Arab states to allow them to resettle in other areas, even those who came from and had family in neighboring Arab states."

Yep, that's why I put them in bold, so it would be easy to tell what ideas are mine and which were C-D's.

What is the wrong idea, and what is the right idea, before I comment?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, Craig. If you are wrong, should I not point it out? Is there something special about you that people shouldn't tell you when you're wrong? Are you just never wrong?

In what way does the behaviour of the Arab States absolve Israel from responsibility for the expulsions which they have perpetrated?

Did someone say it does? Who?

When Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, they were permitted by the Sultan to resettle in the Ottoman Empire, but if he had not permitted them to resettle, would that have absolved King Ferdinand even in the least degree from his responsibility for the expulsion?

Would it have made a difference if King Ferdinand were fighting a war of survival? Because I think that if he were, that would be an important part of the narrative and it would be disingenuous to leave it out.

Are the Zionist settlers really concerned with the wellbeing of the expelled Palestinians, and Syrians or do they simply want them to be resettled elsewhere so that they can finally disappear, and their land can be permanently usurped?

Which settlers? And who's well-being should they be concerned with?

If I throw somebody out of her or his home and take it over, what right have I to say, well it's not all my fault; what about the other people who refused to take them in after I threw them out? They share my responsibility, don't they? No. The one person who has no right to criticise the lack of hospitality of others towards the homeless is the one who created the homelessness in the first place.

If a guy comes from Egypt and suddenly his Egyptian citizenship is revoked, then yeah, I think Egypt is responsible for his being a refugee and for forcing a "Palestinian" identity on him he may not want.

More importantly, I think the idea that blame can only fall on one party and we're not allowed to discuss contributing factors of other parties to be absurd. Just as it's absurd to ignore their reasons for doing what they do; did the Israelis really just kick out a bunch of people solely because they're greedy bastards who wanted to usurp their property? Or were there a bunch of invading armies who made them feel like they needed to make some survival decisions there? I guess when Jews struggle for survival, they're supposed to not consider their own survival as a factor?

And if I do criticise these Arab countries, does that make me an anti-Arab racist?

If I were to tell you that some criticism of Arab nations really is motivated by anti-Arab racism, but some criticism is not, would that blow your mind? Or do you only find this confusing when we're talking about Israel? Do you have some reason why you won't move on from this straw-man?

 

[Craig B]

Which settlers?

Eh?

ETA You are presumably joking or being provocative. But to identify "settlers" - you must be the only literate person on the planet who doesn't know what the word refers to in this context - please see the links in my post #264. I can very easily find other sources if you want.

To renew this conversation, please explain to me what your question "Which settlers?" means.

 

[Mycroft]

Eh?

ETA You are presumably joking or being provocative. But to identify "settlers" - you must be the only literate person on the planet who doesn't know what the word refers to in this context - please see the links in my post #264. I can very easily find other sources if you want.

To renew this conversation, please explain to me what your question "Which settlers?" means.

I mean we're talking about a conflict that spans generations. The "settlers" who immigrated back in the 1880's are not the same people who struggled in 1948, who are not the same people of today.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[Craig B]

I mean we're talking about a conflict that spans generations. The "settlers" who immigrated back in the 1880's are not the same people who struggled in 1948, who are not the same people of today.

That won't do, I'm afraid. Here is our conversation on the topic.

Me: Are the Zionist settlers really concerned with the wellbeing of the expelled Palestinians, and Syrians or do they simply want them to be resettled elsewhere so that they can finally disappear, and their land can be permanently usurped?
You: Which settlers? And who's well-being should they be concerned with?

Me: If I throw somebody out of her or his home and take it over, what right have I to say, well it's not all my fault; what about the other people who refused to take them in after I threw them out? They share my responsibility, don't they? No. The one person who has no right to criticise the lack of hospitality of others towards the homeless is the one who created the homelessness in the first place.
You: If a guy comes from Egypt and suddenly his Egyptian citizenship is revoked, then yeah, I think Egypt is responsible for his being a refugee and for forcing a "Palestinian" identity on him he may not want.

Egyptian citizenship was revoked in the 1880s? Parts of Syria were annexed and cleared in 1948? Aye, right.

 

[kmortis]

This thread has a brand new Part III.

Posted By: kmortis