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Where does the weight actually go?

jt512 said:
Protein is definitely not a "non-caloric nutrient."
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Sure it is. It's both. You need protein for reasons other than their calories. And that's the point: your body is trying to get enough stuff other than fuel to burn, and in the process it gets too much fuel to burn.
 
Ziggurat said:
Sure it is. It's both. You need protein for reasons other than their calories. And that's the point: your body is trying to get enough stuff other than fuel to burn, and in the process it gets too much fuel to burn.
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Protein contains 4 kcal/g. It's caloric. Do we need if for other purposes, obviously, yes. But it's caloric, except by your own made-up definition, by which something can contain calories and not at the same time.

Regardless, can you cite peer-reviewed primary literature that we overconsume calories to make up for inadequate protein absorption, or do you want to admit that you're just speculating.
 
jt512 said:
Protein contains 4 kcal/g. It's caloric. Do we need if for other purposes, obviously, yes. But it's caloric, except by your own made-up definition, by which something can contain calories and not at the same time.

Regardless, can you cite peer-reviewed primary literature that we overconsume calories to make up for inadequate protein absorption, or do you want to admit that you're just speculating.
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Why are you so obsessed with my exact syntax rather than the concept I was trying to convey? And what exactly do you expect to happen if protein absorption is poor?
 
Ziggurat said:
Why are you so obsessed with my exact syntax rather than the concept I was trying to convey?
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I am not obsessed with your syntax. I think your hypothesis is wrong.

What would happen if protein absorption is poor?
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Since you have to ask, you were just speculating, as I suspected.

As far as I am aware, what will happen is that the individual will become clinically protein deficient. That said, I've never heard of protein deficiency in the absence of deficiency in total caloric intake. In fact "protein deficiency" is often referred to as "protein–calorie malnutrition," because it's very hard to be protein deficient if the diet is meeting total energy requirements.
 
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jt512 said:
I am not obsessed with your syntax. I think your hypothesis is wrong.
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Then you should have focused on the reasons that my hypothesis was wrong, not my word choice.

Since you have to ask, you were just speculating, as I suspected.
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Nope. I'm not speculating, I'm just wondering what conceptual model you're operating under. Now I know: you're operating under a model which contradicts the facts that you know. Quite strange.

As far as I am aware, what will happen is that the individual will become clinically protein deficient.
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If you're protein deficient, and you have food available, are you honestly saying that you won't eat more in order to stop being protein deficient?

That said, I've never heard of protein deficiency in the absence of deficiency in total caloric intake.
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Of course you haven't heard of it, because it doesn't happen, because your hypothesis is (obviously) wrong. The body isn't unaware that it's protein deficient. It does not lack signaling mechanisms to obtain more protein. So the obvious question is, what happens if, in order to get enough protein, you over-consume calories? You should be able to get this in one.

In fact "protein deficiency" is often referred to as "protein–calorie malnutrition," because it's very hard to be protein deficient if the diet is meeting total energy requirements.
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You had the proof right under your nose, and yet you couldn't see it.
 
My sister the vegetarian was told by she wasn't eating enough protein. But that was by a nutritionist, so probably not a medical diagnosis. So now she is a 'not-four-legged-animalsivore'.

But that reminds me- I wonder where I can get some beef kidneys for lunch?
 
There's no reason a vegetarian should have to eat meat for protein. I was vegan before I was diagnosed with celiac. Beans, nuts, tofu, etc...are plentiful sources of protein. If she was told that by a dietician, that individual was ignorant.
 
RogueKitten said:
There's no reason a vegetarian should have to eat meat for protein. I was vegan before I was diagnosed with celiac. Beans, nuts, tofu, etc...are plentiful sources of protein. If she was told that by a dietician, that individual was ignorant.
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Casbro's sister may also have had poor protein absorption. Celiac isn't the only thing that can do that, protein absorption also gets worse when you get older. And while stuff like beans and tofu do have moderate amounts of protein in them, the amino acid profile isn't as good as animal protein, and they aren't as protein-dense either. Could she have gotten enough protein with a vegetarian diet? Perhaps. But it's a lot easier to make sure you're getting enough with a diet that includes some animal sources.
 
These days it is pretty easy to eat a diet with enough calories to become obese, yet be insufficient in nutrients.

For example

Breakfast is a couple donuts

Lunch is a Big Mac and fries and a big soda

Dinner is half a pizza.
 
RogueKitten said:
There's no reason a vegetarian should have to eat meat for protein. I was vegan before I was diagnosed with celiac. Beans, nuts, tofu, etc...are plentiful sources of protein. If she was told that by a dietician, that individual was ignorant.
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I assumed the nutritionist looked at what she was actually eating, and pronounced her diet deficient. The might have been why she went from vegan to 'not-four-legged-animalsivore'.
 
casebro said:
I assumed the nutritionist looked at what she was actually eating, and pronounced her diet deficient. The might have been why she went from vegan to 'not-four-legged-animalsivore'.
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So......now she CAN eat birds, snakes, fish, people and insects/related!!!!

Almost forgot. and kangaroos!!!
 
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Ziggurat said:
Casbro's sister may also have had poor protein absorption. Celiac isn't the only thing that can do that, protein absorption also gets worse when you get older. And while stuff like beans and tofu do have moderate amounts of protein in them, the amino acid profile isn't as good as animal protein, and they aren't as protein-dense either. Could she have gotten enough protein with a vegetarian diet? Perhaps. But it's a lot easier to make sure you're getting enough with a diet that includes some animal sources.
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That makes sense.

bobdroege7 said:
These days it is pretty easy to eat a diet with enough calories to become obese, yet be insufficient in nutrients.

For example

Breakfast is a couple donuts

Lunch is a Big Mac and fries and a big soda

Dinner is half a pizza.
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I posted a couple links earlier in this thread about people with major nutritional deficients who were obese.

Ziggurat said:
And man-bear-pig.
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In places where they practice cannibalism, most of the people who do it call human meat some variation of "two legged pig".
 
Ziggurat said:
If you're protein deficient, and you have food available, are you honestly saying that you won't eat more in order to stop being protein deficient?
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It was you who was claiming that if you are protein deficient, but not calorie deficient, that you will consume additional, excess calories to attempt to alleviate the protein deficiency. I asked you to back that up with peer-review, primary literature. You didn't, and I don't believe you can. Therefore, I think you're ********ting speculating. If you're interested in demonstrating that you aren't, then it would still be of interest to see those peer-review, primary studies. I will happily admit that I was wrong, if you do that.
 
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jt512 said:
It was you who was claiming that if you are protein deficient, but not calorie deficient, that you will consume additional, excess calories to attempt to alleviate the protein deficiency.
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Yes, I am claiming that. Are you claiming this is wrong? You refuse to actually say. Why?

I asked you to back that up with peer-review, primary literature. You didn't, and I don't believe you can.
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Perhaps I can't. Frankly, I haven't tried, and I'm not all that interested in doing so, because I think the issue is so basic and obvious that we need not appeal to specific literature to make a determination.

Therefore, I think you're ********ting speculating.
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And the alternative to that speculation contradicts the facts that you already told me. Which tells me that you're not simply refusing to speculate, you're refusing to even think. Seriously: why does protein deficiency basically never occur in the absence of calorie deficiency? Have you given even a moment's thought to why this might be so?

If you're interested in demonstrating that you aren't, then it would still be of interest to see those peer-review, primary studies. I will happily admit that I was wrong, if you do that.
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At the moment, I'm less interested in you admitting you're wrong than I am in you admitting what your position is, which you still refuse to do.
 
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