The existence of God and the efficacy of prayer

[ComfySlippers]

Let me fall into the trap and ask what that word is?

Let me not fall into your trap, and decline to say it.
Pretty obvious though at this stage.

 

[PartSkeptic]

Other than 42, what then is the meaning of life? With evidence, please.

The meaning of life is lessons. We are here to learn and advance and evolve spiritually.

Evidence - you just learned something. Maybe. You might have to repeat your life a few times to grasp this concept.

 

[PartSkeptic]

Let me not fall into your trap, and decline to say it.
Pretty obvious though at this stage.

Sometimes I can be quite naive. No trap by me. But if it is a crude word then I do not need to know it.

 

[blue triangle]

Right here on this very site.

Are you suggesting that you are search incompetent and you need a wowwipop put in your mouth?

I don't see it on your public profile. Where exactly is it?

Read that back to yourself. You are actually claiming that one should be forbidden from ridiculing the ridiculous.

No, one should be discouraged from ridiculing the sincerely-held beliefs of other people. And why should it be discouraged? That is because it is childish, intolerant, narrow-minded and arrogant.

What in the blazes does that connect to?

Your comment was the case in point.

So? All religion demonstrably is superstition. News at five.

Then you should have watched the News at 10, which is for adults.

According to the holey babble, blind obedience

Obedience to the higher power within you.

Killing people is not wrong according to the holey babble. The holey babble mandates it and demands it

The Old Testament did as a punishment under specific circumstances, and there were commands to go to war, but it always forbade murder.

Of course not. Science doesn't do fairy stories.

Science has long entertained fairy stories and pushed them as fact. Phlogiston, Lamarkism, Eugenics, the Luminiferous Aether, the Steady-State theory and Cold Fusion are a few. Science itself has discredited them, of course, but many Christians have always encouraged the scientific enterprise. Christianity and science need not be in conflict. The fundamentalists in both camps always will be.

Fail. What has religion explained in the last 2,000 years?Sure there are religious claims aplenty. Explanations? Nope.

Religion is not science. That's not its job. Another straw man hiding there.

How about you stop doing it yourself?

I'm not the one trashing a self-made caricature of science, or atheism, or skepticism. You are doing that with religion, and it does you no credit at all.

 

[stanfr]

The meaning of life is lessons. We are here to learn and advance and evolve spiritually.

Evidence - you just learned something. Maybe. You might have to repeat your life a few times to grasp this concept.

I agree with that, and if we fail this test by denying reality and embracing a world of fantasy and conjecture, rather than confronting a world of reality with all it's challenges and rewards, then our punishment is to be reincarnated as a guinea pig.

 

[Pup]

The meaning of life is lessons. We are here to learn and advance and evolve spiritually.

Evidence - you just learned something. Maybe. You might have to repeat your life a few times to grasp this concept.

Sinner! Heretic! You'd better learn the lesson that reincarnation is only something that heathens and hippies say they believe in.

 

[MikeG]

The meaning of life is lessons. We are here to learn and advance and evolve spiritually.

Who says? How can anyone verify this? And what does it mean, anyway? It sounds like so many empty words to me, just trite platitudes. I don't accept the existence of "spiritually", but even if it were a thing, how does one evolve spiritually? So, you'll take this wishy washy nonsense and say it is the meaning of life, and I'll say..........doesn't sound a long way removed from saying that there is no meaning of life.

Evidence - you just learned something.

No, I learnt nothing. I already knew that theists have no concept of evidence, and you demonstrating it again has taught me nothing.

Maybe. You might have to repeat your life a few times to grasp this concept.

Your snide little cheap-shot doesn't avoid the fact that we get one life, and when we're dead we're dead. There's nothing else. So repeating it isn't an option.

Here's the meaning of life. We're here for one purpose only: to ensure the survival of our DNA through to the next generation. Being as we're here, though, life is about occupying yourself until you die.

 

[stanfr]

Who says? How can anyone verify this? And what does it mean, anyway? It sounds like so many empty words to me, just trite platitudes. I don't accept the existence of "spiritually", but even if it were a thing, how does one evolve spiritually? So, you'll take this wishy washy nonsense and say it is the meaning of life, and I'll say..........doesn't sound a long way removed from saying that there is no meaning of life.

No, I learnt nothing. I already knew that theists have no concept of evidence, and you demonstrating it again has taught me nothing.



Your snide little cheap-shot doesn't avoid the fact that we get one life, and when we're dead we're dead. There's nothing else. So repeating it isn't an option.

Here's the meaning of life. We're here for one purpose only: to ensure the survival of our DNA through to the next generation. Being as we're here, though, life is about occupying yourself until you die.

I must confess--I think that's a pretty miserable statement in and of itself. While I am agnostic, I try to find 'meaning' in my life in order to make it more full. I'm not interested in 'occupying', I'm interested in exploring. And I certainly don't want to pass my crappy DNA on to anyone. I think one can find meaning in things that can be objectively demonstrated--one doesn't have to resort to believing in nonsense just because someone else says so or because it makes you feel good. If that makes me a bad atheist, I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

[ComfySlippers]

...
No, one should be discouraged from ridiculing the sincerely-held beliefs of other people. And why should it be discouraged? That is because it is childish, intolerant, narrow-minded and arrogant.

Ah, the ridiculous notion that religion should be exempt from ridicule.
I always love that one because... it's so ridiculous

The most feared weapons to religious nutters are:
-Ridicule
-Pencils
-Bacon

Their brains simply can't cope with ridicule, because they can't justify their ridiculous beliefs.
Some religions are terrified of pencils drawing their ridiculous idol.
Other religions are scared of ickle piggie-wigs.

Oh yes, the ridicule is justified and will continue for evermore.
As will the not granting of automatic respect just because they're religious.

 

[stanfr]

Ah, the ridiculous notion that religion should be exempt from ridicule.
I always love that one because... it's so ridiculous

The most feared weapons to religious nutters are:
-Ridicule
-Pencils
-Bacon

Their brains simply can't cope with ridicule, because they can't justify their ridiculous beliefs.
Some religions are terrified of pencils drawing their ridiculous idol.
Other religions are scared of ickle piggie-wigs.

Oh yes, the ridicule is justified and will continue for evermore.
As will the not granting of automatic respect just because they're religious.

I don't think the ridiculous should be exempt from ridicule. But when one defines themselves by believing in ridiculous things, there's a fine line between ridiculing the person and ridiculing the belief--or no line at all. So, IMHO, the solution is to tread lightly. If your soul purpose in engaging is to ridicule, that makes you a...well, you know the word

 

[Pup]

[/HILITE]

I must confess--I think that's a pretty miserable statement in and of itself. While I am agnostic, I try to find 'meaning' in my life in order to make it more full. I'm not interested in 'occupying', I'm interested in exploring. And I certainly don't want to pass my crappy DNA on to anyone. I think one can find meaning in things that can be objectively demonstrated--one doesn't have to resort to believing in nonsense just because someone else says so or because it makes you feel good. If that makes me a bad atheist, I'm perfectly fine with that.

I don't think there's evidence that passing on DNA is really the purpose of life, though one does run into people who put great importance in how many descendants they've produced.

Life certainly replicates, but replication seems to be more of a what than a why. We seem predisposed to be happier when we have a sense of purpose, but the purposes are so diverse there's really no pattern and reproduction of DNA is just one of many.

 

[blue triangle]

I am with you on this one, logger.

Here in life on Earth the true repentant is (often) accepted back into the community. God can sort out the fakes, and the ones who are simply desperate and trying their luck. And do not believe the priest who says all is forgiven. Of course he adds, go and sin no more. If one intends to sin some more, then the contract of forgiveness is null and void.

Logger and BT can comment on this.

I worked for a Christian charity for years and many of the staff were people who had previously drifted into lives of substance abuse, crime and other selfish behaviours. All of them had undergone a process of transformation and recovery through conversion and support, and although there were many recidivists, a large number seemed to have permanently left their old ways behind. I got to know many of them well, and I can state that not one of them was doing it to cheat punishment. The Christian life isn't an easy one and they were all well aware of what they had given up to live it. As for a deathbed conversion to avoid the possibility of going to hell, as Partskeptic says, God knows our heart.

 

[logger]

Other than 42, what then is the meaning of life? With evidence, please.

God
Family
Job
Country

In that order. Can you find meaning in any of those?

 

[blue triangle]

As will the not granting of automatic respect just because they're religious.

They deserve respect because they're human beings, not because they are religious. If you're talking about their religious beliefs, rather than the person, yes, argue your position, that's why we're all here, or at least should be here. But it is fundamentally wrong to ridicule their belief too, since that is tantamount to claiming you know the Truth, which is the only belief that truly is ridiculous. It's also childish, arrogant, intolerant and narrow minded.

You shouldn't need to have this explained to you. It's obvious to any thinking, feeling person. If you're simply here to troll, you deserve to be booted out of the forum.

 

[logger]

I am with you on this one, logger.

Here in life on Earth the true repentant is (often) accepted back into the community. God can sort out the fakes, and the ones who are simply desperate and trying their luck. And do not believe the priest who says all is forgiven. Of course he adds, go and sin no more. If one intends to sin some more, then the contract of forgiveness is null and void.

Logger and BT can comment on this.

Agreed.


The skeptic is caught up in the law since they cannot understand how this relationship is from the heart.

 

[stanfr]

God
Family
Job
Country

In that order. Can you find meaning in any of those?

No...but I don't care either

 

[stanfr]

Agreed.


The skeptic is caught up in the law since they cannot understand how this relationship is from the heart.

Hearts can be artificial, or transplanted. We haven't quite figured out how to do that with brains yet...

 

[blue triangle]

The most feared weapons to religious nutters are:
-Ridicule
-Pencils
-Bacon

Their brains simply can't cope with ridicule, because they can't justify their ridiculous beliefs.

This post deserves some further attention. I've answered the ridicule part already. Now . . .

Some religions are terrified of pencils drawing their ridiculous idol.

You mean the Charlie Hebdo affair, of course. First of all, the murder of people who have ridiculed your religion, even those who draw cartoons of your prophet engaging in disgusting sexual acts, is utterly wrong and completely deplorable. A peaceful protest would have had much more positive impact.

But secondly, a magazine that deliberately taunts an entire religion by producing such disgusting artwork deserves to be shut down. They abuse the freedoms our ancestors earned and which they enjoy, because freedom without responsibility quickly degenerates into chaos and deserves to be extinguished.

Other religions are scared of ickle piggie-wigs.

Judge them by their fruits, not by what meat they avoid.

 

[stanfr]

Judge them by their fruits, not by what meat they avoid.

They shun homosexuals too! Sorry, too easy to resist

 

[Delvo]

the murder of people who have ridiculed your religion, even those who draw cartoons of your prophet engaging in disgusting sexual acts, is utterly wrong and completely deplorable.

And you know this because... God said so?