• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Continuation Part 21: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

Status
Not open for further replies.
Samson and I were talking about the Norfolk Four and it seems very much this same thing. When the DNA kept coming back not being them, they just kept adding more people and some kind of seven man gangbang.

It really is the same thing with religion. Man/Woman on the whole hates with a passion finding out they might be or are wrong. They will add insanity on top of absurdity on top of ridiculous. Dale Carnegie writes about this in his book "How to win friends and influence people". Unfortunately that prideful failing leads to stubborn ignorance.

The Norfolk case, the Knox case and the Ridulph case all demonstrate the great lengths humans will go to not to be wrong. At some point with all three cases the investigators ideas morphed from an idea to a suspicion to a strongly held belief. A belief so strong that made them willingto pose some absolutely fatuous and insane arguments.

I learned a very long time ago from my studies of Socrates, Paine, even Thomas Edison that being wrong is good and is the path to true knowledge. It is not something to be ashamed of. But the refusal to admit one is wrong is just a claim that it is OK to remain ignorant and stupid.

And you are entitled to that right as long as it doesn't effect other rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You certainly are not entitled to be ignorant during a quest to prosecute another human being.
 
Last edited:
It seems Carla Vecchiotti has been civilly, not criminally, sanctioned.

Of course the conspiratorially minded - like me - suspects this may be good old fashioned pay-back of some kind.

Still - remove Conti & Vecchiotti from the second trial and there remains no DNA expert anywhere who'll vouch for Stefanoni's original forensic work.

But it sure will be fun for some to cut into Vecchiotti. Kind of like saying Peyton Manning played poorly last Super Bowl, but never mentioning that the Broncos won.


Stefanoni undermines her results by refusing to show her work . . .
 
It really is the same thing with religion. Man/Woman on the whole hates with a passion finding out they might be or are wrong. They will add insanity on top of absurdity on top of ridiculous. Dale Carnegie writes about this in his book "How to win friends and influence people". Unfortunately that prideful failing leads to stubborn ignorance.

The Norfolk case, the Knox case and the Ridulph case all demonstrate the great lengths humans will go to not to be wrong. At some point with all three cases the investigators ideas morphed from an idea to a suspicion to a strongly held belief. A belief so strong that made them willingto pose some absolutely fatuous and insane arguments.

I learned a very long time ago from my studies of Socrates, Paine, even Thomas Edison that being wrong is good and is the path to true knowledge. It is not something to be ashamed of. But the refusal to admit one is wrong is just a claim that it is OK to remain ignorant and stupid.
And you are entitled to that right as long as it doesn't effect other rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You certainly are not entitled to be ignorant during a quest to prosecute another human being.

Yes!
 
Bill Williams said:
It seems Carla Vecchiotti has been civilly, not criminally, sanctioned.

Of course the conspiratorially minded - like me - suspects this may be good old fashioned pay-back of some kind.

Still - remove Conti & Vecchiotti from the second trial and there remains no DNA expert anywhere who'll vouch for Stefanoni's original forensic work.

But it sure will be fun for some to cut into Vecchiotti. Kind of like saying Peyton Manning played poorly last Super Bowl, but never mentioning that the Broncos won.

Stefanoni undermines her results by refusing to show her work . . .

I stand corrected. Perhaps the reason why no independent DNA expert will vouch for Stefanoni's work is that no one has access to it. The Massei court backed up the lack of disclosure, so on what basis would anyone say S.'s work was either fraudulent or even mistaken?
 
Last edited:
I stand corrected. Perhaps the reason why no independent DNA expert will vouch for Stefanoni's work is that no one has access to it. The Massei court backed up the lack of disclosure, so on what basis would anyone say S.'s work was either fraudulent or even mistaken?


From Sarah's post on the Injustice Anywhere Forum:

An intellectually rigorous type who calls himself “Diocletian” has exhaustively analyzed the DNA evidence to establish what we have, what has been suppressed, and, most importantly, what malign patterns lie hidden in a wilderness of confusing detail. The conclusions of research are so compelling that they are worth quoting verbatim:

•The prosecution hid the results of early and decisive DNA testing excluding Sollecito as the sexual assailant, securing on improper grounds the pretrial incarceration of Sollecito and Knox (and Lumumba) to the severe prejudice of the defense.

•The prosecution concealed the initial results for tests performed on the two key items of evidence , i.e., the kitchen knife (Rep. 36B) and the bra-clasp (Rep. 165B), and instead, produced only the results of suspicious “do over” tests (reruns), without disclosing the data from the initial tests or even the fact that the subsequent tests are “do overs”.

•The prosecution concealed that the kitchen knife profile was generated within a series of tests for which 90 percent of the results have been suppressed, strongly suggesting the occurrence of a severe contamination event that the prosecution continues to hide.

•The prosecution claims that contamination of the bra clasp was impossible, even though the bra clasp profile was processed during a series of tests for which there is documented proof of contamination.

•The prosecution falsely portrayed the DNA lab as pristine and perfectly maintained, even though the lab’s own documents demonstrate that it was plagued with repeated contamination events and machine malfunctions that were known to the lab.

•The prosecution has withheld the results from a massive number of DNA tests (well over 100), including probably exculpatory profiles relating to the sexual assault and the secondary crime scene downstairs.

•The prosecution has hidden all of the records of the DNA amplification process—the most likely place for laboratory contamination to have occurred—including all of the contamination control tests for this process.

 
It really is the same thing with religion. Man/Woman on the whole hates with a passion finding out they might be or are wrong. They will add insanity on top of absurdity on top of ridiculous. Dale Carnegie writes about this in his book "How to win friends and influence people". Unfortunately that prideful failing leads to stubborn ignorance.

The Norfolk case, the Knox case and the Ridulph case all demonstrate the great lengths humans will go to not to be wrong. At some point with all three cases the investigators ideas morphed from an idea to a suspicion to a strongly held belief. A belief so strong that made them willingto pose some absolutely fatuous and insane arguments.

I learned a very long time ago from my studies of Socrates, Paine, even Thomas Edison that being wrong is good and is the path to true knowledge. It is not something to be ashamed of. But the refusal to admit one is wrong is just a claim that it is OK to remain ignorant and stupid.

And you are entitled to that right as long as it doesn't effect other rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You certainly are not entitled to be ignorant during a quest to prosecute another human being.

Before they collected any evidence, the detectives decided that Williams was guilty. The Amanda Knox case is identical where they decided before they had any evidence that she was guilty. In each case, crimes that are uncommon enough that they basically have no experience with.

With the Norfolk Four though, the prosecutor should have looked and noted that Ford had already gotten false confessions in other cases. Should consider that he is good at beating (verbally / psychologically) confessions out of people. The prosecution could have said "stop."
 
530,2 is basically exactly that
The pro forma part is the wording in the motivation report. The lawyer's statement was provided by me against my POV. Except for a tiny group it is evident that a comma 2 is at a minimum perceived to be a lessor form of not guilty than a comma 1. In a similar way as a Scot seeing a "not proven" verdict interprets that to mean not as clear an acquitted as "not guilty". The law was updated a few years ago but the courts obviously still use the different commas and the public interprets them differently.

Art. 530 of the Criminal Procedure Code
of acquittal judgment.
1. If the fact does not exist, if the accused has not committed, if the offense is not or is not required by law as a crime or if the offense was committed by a person not responsible [85 scp] or not punishable for a ' other reason, the court ruling of acquittal on their cause in the device [254 trans.].
2. The judge pronounces acquittal even when there is insufficient or contradictory evidence that the thing certain, that the accused committed it, that constitutes a criminal offense or the offense was committed by the person responsible.​

The code as you can see does not have "for not have committing the crime" in the code.

Toto used an article that quoted an news source that quoted the "for not having committed the act (crime)" as proof it is not perceived as a lesser acquittal but as of yet no one has provided a comma 2 verdict that didn't use the pro forma phrase.
Specifically I was just showing that in terms of perception at least one article in the media appeared happy to use the word "innocent" as indeed did Hellmann. I don't think I was making the point that all the Italian media were writing like that, but the perception I got w
as that the media in Italy , the UK and the USA were much more concerned with communicating the errors of the prosecution case than casting some sort of doubt over A and R's aquittal. I think A's recent aquittal over the police slander case is very helpful and I hope the book trials are helpful too in backing up the case for the two.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
Specifically I was just showing that in terms of perception at least one article in the media appeared happy to use the word "innocent" as indeed did Hellmann. I don't think I was making the point that all the Italian media were writing like that, but the perception I got w
as that the media in Italy , the UK and the USA were much more concerned with communicating the errors of the prosecution case than casting some sort of doubt over A and R's aquittal. I think A's recent aquittal over the police slander case is very helpful and I hope the book trials are helpful too in backing up the case for the two.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Unfortunately the book trials will probably lapse. Even though the "head slap calunnia charge" against Knox ended in an acquittal, even that is provisional given that nothing becomes final until the ISC agrees with the lower court's verdict. The "head slap calunnia" is likely to lapse before the process plays out. Still, there's at least one motivations report to read from that. Not good for the PLE.

It's too bad - the way things are going in the legal realm, it would be interesting to see how the book-trials would be adjudicated, and what would be said in some future motivations report(s), as well as the trial against the parents. But all those predatory prosecutions will probably lapse - so far they've been a bit of an "own goal" by them who brought the claim.
 
Last edited:
Vinci the fraud photoshopped her images to make them look compatible. Hardly scientific. Paid handsomely by the defense to blag it.
Her? AFAIK Prof. Vinci's first name is Francesco :p

No, you have the same access to resources as me. If I have the knowledge Stefanoni specifically stated it was not menstrual blood in the bathroom, how come you do not?
p331 Darkness Descending. If you dispute a fact, the onus is on you to state why. Do you really think a Forensic Scientist wouldn't know the difference between various bodily fluids. The idea is contemptible.

Because you make things up, yourself, you think everyone else has the same low standards as you. [...]
This is the part of Darkness Descending (kinde position 5664 pp) where menstrual blood is mentioned:
Colonel Garofano then turned his attention to the mixed blood spots in the bathroom next to Meredith’s room. Again, he criticized the methods of collecting samples. But, he said, the presence of Amanda Knox’s DNA is decisively bad for her defence. ‘Now let’s have a look at the washbasin,’ he began.
I saw on the film the way they collected the sample in the washbasin. The fact that the sample was collected by wiping both the edge and the plughole is dangerous. You’re likely to find all sorts of stuff in the plughole. However, here is the electropherogram and you can see that the RFU value is very high, so the sample is undoubtedly blood, which is the body fluid that provides the greatest amount of DNA. In some cases you see higher peaks of Amanda’s DNA than Meredith’s. Amanda has been bleeding. Nor is it old blood, as the defence might say, because blood decays fast. We have the same result on the cotton-bud box. The light switch was over-scrubbed, but from the film the way the cotton-bud box was handled was definitely good enough. There too we have mixed blood. So that’s pretty significant for Amanda. Unfortunately for her, she bled at the same time Meredith was bleeding. That’s a lot to explain.
However, the bidet evidence is less powerful.
I would not use the bidet swab as useful evidence because the swab was again taken from the edge of the bowl to the plug-hole and this is a typical area where menstrual blood collects.
However, one has to say that an American would not use the bidet for washing herself. She may wash clothes in it, maybe knickers with menstrual blood on it, or some other item of clothing that was dirty. But the blood trail is a drip, and doesn’t appear like a residue from washed clothes, that leads from the edge of the bidet to the plughole. We’d have to ask Amanda to explain that.
Garofano cannot rule out that the mixed blood could have come from a violent confrontation between Knox and Meredith. But he plays devil’s advocate to show how Amanda could explain the clues away as totally innocent, unrelated bloodstains.
It’s just blood as far as I’m concerned and I can say no more, but the fact that the blood was mixed does indicate that Meredith and Amanda were bleeding at the same time. However, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a wound, it might be that Amanda had a bloody nose, or she cut herself on the knife, or she cut her feet on the glass in the other bedroom, or even that she washed something that had her blood on it in the washbasin, squeezed it in the bidet and touched the cotton-bud box. Look at the electropherograms, there’s a lot of Amanda’s DNA there, and of course there’s a blob of Amanda’s blood on the tap.
So we have those three key pieces of DNA evidence against Amanda Knox: the tap with her blood on it; the basin with her and Meredith’s blood mixed, and the cotton-bud box with her and Meredith’s blood on them. Let’s try to explain them for Amanda. Menstrual blood? In the bidet the blood could be menstrual blood, or it could be her washing bloodstained knickers in the bidet. She could have washed them in the basin and then rinsed them again in the bidet. She would have touched them and touched the cotton-bud box.
That does not explain why Meredith’s blood is there too though. Amanda’s own bloodstain on the tap is recent. It is dry, but has not been touched or cleaned. There is no fingerprint in it. It is logical to put that bloodstain in relation with the blood in the bidet and washbasin, but let us assume for a minute that they are unrelated. For example, that the bloodstain on the tap was from a pierced ear and the blood in the bidet and washbasin was from her period. All Amanda’s blood in the small bathroom can be explained in one way or the other. How can Meredith’s blood be explained? Let’s say the assassin used the basin and the bidet to wash the knife: if you look at the electropherograms you’ll see that there seems to be more of Amanda’s blood than Meredith’s. There is a copious blood loss by Amanda. Not from a pierced ear, nor from washed underwear, but from bleeding. A bleeding nose, maybe, a cut, or two cuts because we have to consider the bloodstains in the corridor. Which is a different issue.
The thing is, it isn't Dottoressa Stefanoni speaking, it isn't an interview with her as Vixen claimed before. This is just Colonel Garofano (an early pro-prosecution mouthpiece), blabbering about DNA evidence. Among other nonsense, stating that blood is "is the body fluid that provides the greatest amount of DNA." ...
 
Her? AFAIK Prof. Vinci's first name is Francesco :p



This is the part of Darkness Descending (kinde position 5664 pp) where menstrual blood is mentioned:

The thing is, it isn't Dottoressa Stefanoni speaking, it isn't an interview with her as Vixen claimed before. This is just Colonel Garofano (an early pro-prosecution mouthpiece), blabbering about DNA evidence. Among other nonsense, stating that blood is "is the body fluid that provides the greatest amount of DNA." ...

Vixen cannot even quote the guilter book-nonsense correctly.
 
From Sarah's post on the Injustice Anywhere Forum:

An intellectually rigorous type who calls himself “Diocletian” has exhaustively analyzed the DNA evidence to establish what we have, what has been suppressed, and, most importantly, what malign patterns lie hidden in a wilderness of confusing detail. The conclusions of research are so compelling that they are worth quoting verbatim:

•The prosecution hid the results of early and decisive DNA testing excluding Sollecito as the sexual assailant, securing on improper grounds the pretrial incarceration of Sollecito and Knox (and Lumumba) to the severe prejudice of the defense.

•The prosecution concealed the initial results for tests performed on the two key items of evidence , i.e., the kitchen knife (Rep. 36B) and the bra-clasp (Rep. 165B), and instead, produced only the results of suspicious “do over” tests (reruns), without disclosing the data from the initial tests or even the fact that the subsequent tests are “do overs”.

•The prosecution concealed that the kitchen knife profile was generated within a series of tests for which 90 percent of the results have been suppressed, strongly suggesting the occurrence of a severe contamination event that the prosecution continues to hide.

•The prosecution claims that contamination of the bra clasp was impossible, even though the bra clasp profile was processed during a series of tests for which there is documented proof of contamination.

•The prosecution falsely portrayed the DNA lab as pristine and perfectly maintained, even though the lab’s own documents demonstrate that it was plagued with repeated contamination events and machine malfunctions that were known to the lab.

•The prosecution has withheld the results from a massive number of DNA tests (well over 100), including probably exculpatory profiles relating to the sexual assault and the secondary crime scene downstairs.

•The prosecution has hidden all of the records of the DNA amplification process—the most likely place for laboratory contamination to have occurred—including all of the contamination control tests for this process.


This is one of the most important summaries of some of the wrongful conduct of the authorities in this case.

It should be added as a clarification that the police and prosecution had early knowledge that Lumumba as well as Sollecito could not have raped Kercher, based on the DNA testing, and that therefore the statements they had coerced from Knox in the November 5/6 interrogations by police and prosecutor, and which Knox had repudiated in her Memoriales I and II of November 6 and 7, respectively, were false.

This was part of the deception by police and prosecution authorities in their violation of the rights of Knox, Sollecito, and Lumumba.
 
This is one of the most important summaries of some of the wrongful conduct of the authorities in this case.

It should be added as a clarification that the police and prosecution had early knowledge that Lumumba as well as Sollecito could not have raped Kercher, based on the DNA testing, and that therefore the statements they had coerced from Knox in the November 5/6 interrogations by police and prosecutor, and which Knox had repudiated in her Memoriales I and II of November 6 and 7, respectively, were false.

This was part of the deception by police and prosecution authorities in their violation of the rights of Knox, Sollecito, and Lumumba.

To be clear. They had no evidence that Lumumba or Sollecito had assaulted MK. That is different from having evidence that they could not have done so. The evidence for Lumumba was the alibi witness that subsequently appeared. Sollecito's alibi was Knox. That no DNA of Lumumba or Sollecito was found on MK is not proof they could not have assaulted her (e.g. condom).

Diocletian has done excellent work identifying irregularities in the laboratory records. However his interpretation of the causes for these is just assumption. Some like the fact that previous unreported tests (in the absence of the defence witnesses) may have been run seem likely but there may be other explanations. Some gaps may be samples from other cases being run.

Contamination episodes happen. That Steffanoni claimed none happened is foolish. The important thing is how one responds to contamination.
 
Contamination episodes happen. That Steffanoni claimed none happened is foolish. The important thing is how one responds to contamination.

......... that judges/courts like Massei's in 2009 simply took Stefanoni on her word that her lab had never had a contamination episode, shows the way the Italian judiciary was complicit.
 
Her? AFAIK Prof. Vinci's first name is Francesco :p



This is the part of Darkness Descending (kinde position 5664 pp) where menstrual blood is mentioned:

The thing is, it isn't Dottoressa Stefanoni speaking, it isn't an interview with her as Vixen claimed before. This is just Colonel Garofano (an early pro-prosecution mouthpiece), blabbering about DNA evidence. Among other nonsense, stating that blood is "is the body fluid that provides the greatest amount of DNA." ...

No, I was quoting Stefanoni elsewhere p 331.
 
Great news!

This is old news now but tonight I did learn that many pro guilt people ( of Amanda Knox AND Raffaele Sollecito, when they remember him ;) ) did not know that one of the presiding Judges at the Italian Court of Cassation judgement in March last year who found the pair not guilty, has now been appointed President of said Court. Unanimously. Paolo Bruno. Complimenti!

http://www.strill.it/citta/2016/04/...sidente-di-sezione-della-corte-di-cassazione/

Google translation:

CSM appoints Judge reggino Paul Bruno President of the Court of Cassation



Wednesday, April 20, 2016
15:14
paolobruno
By resolution approved yesterday unanimously, the High Judicial Council appointed the judge reggino Paul Bruno President of the Court of Cassation.
It is a prestigious executive office, which marks an important stage in a bright and rewarding career .
Entered the Judiciary at the age of twenty-five years, President Bruno started the judicial activities of Vibo Valentia Court and moved a few years later, the General Court and then the Court of Appeal in Reggio Calabria, distinguishing, for preparation and professionalism , both in the civil sector and in the penalty.
he presided over the assize Court reggina for three years, defining three important national processes: the process to "Cosa Nostra" for the murder of the judge Nino Scopelliti; two processes to the Calabrian crime, for the murders of the President of the Ferrovie dello Vico Ligato State and Baron Antonino Cordopatri.
Winner of a competition based on qualifications and merits processional, in 1998 Dr. Bruno moved to Rome, at the Office of Massimario (research department) of the Supreme Court. Appointed councilor, was assigned to the Fifth Criminal Division where he worked, as part of the bench or presenter, of some of the most important processes of the Italian judicial history: the G8 summit in Genoa, the massacre of Piazza della Loggia in Brescia, countless processes organized crime and terrorism; the murders of Marta Russo, Marco Biagi, Merdith Kercher and Chiara Poggi.
And 'it drafted major decisions, such as the sentence for the murder of Professor. Marco Biagi by the Red Brigades; The verdict against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, accused of the murder of Meredith Kercher; different pronunciations in company and insolvency matters, most recently on the subject of "false evaluation".
From 2013, it is part of the United Penal Sections, maximum court of the Supreme Court, called upon to rule on the case law contrasts between the different sections and on legal issues of particular importance.
Since 1986 is also a component of tax commission, now chairman of the provincial Commission section of Rome.

Print Friendly
- See more at: http://www.strill.it/citta/2016/04/...lla-corte-di-cassazione/#sthash.KGUONyCo.dpuf
 
Last edited:
To be clear. They had no evidence that Lumumba or Sollecito had assaulted MK. That is different from having evidence that they could not have done so. The evidence for Lumumba was the alibi witness that subsequently appeared. Sollecito's alibi was Knox. That no DNA of Lumumba or Sollecito was found on MK is not proof they could not have assaulted her (e.g. condom).

Diocletian has done excellent work identifying irregularities in the laboratory records. However his interpretation of the causes for these is just assumption. Some like the fact that previous unreported tests (in the absence of the defence witnesses) may have been run seem likely but there may be other explanations. Some gaps may be samples from other cases being run.

Contamination episodes happen. That Steffanoni claimed none happened is foolish. The important thing is how one responds to contamination.

However, whoever sexually assaulted Kercher did not use a condom. There was male DNA detected in the rape kit. It was identified after some time as being that of Guede (although the police would not have identified the person as soon as they knew it was neither Sollecito nor Lumumba).

It would be a speculation not justified by the evidence that other males participated in the sexual assault but could not be identified because they were using condoms.

Diocletian's discoveries about the numbering issues are somewhat beyond mere assumptions. The numbering of samples in a science lab is tightly regulated; that in a forensic lab should be more so, as a matter of Good Laboratory Practice (a set of quality contol/assurance procedures). The numbering used by Steffanoni for the samples in question indicated that they were likely to be repeats. The raw data was suppressed. Full examination of all the actual raw data would resolve the issue.
 
Last edited:
However, whoever sexually assaulted Kercher did not use a condom. There was male DNA detected in the rape kit. It was identified after some time as being that of Guede (although the police would not have identified the person as soon as they knew it was neither Sollecito nor Lumumba).

It would be a speculation not justified by the evidence that other males participated in the sexual assault but could not be identified because they were using condoms.

Diocletian's discoveries about the numbering issues are somewhat beyond mere assumptions. The numbering of samples in a science lab is tightly regulated; that in a forensic lab should be more so, as a matter of Good Laboratory Practice (a set of quality contol/assurance procedures). The numbering used by Steffanoni for the samples in question indicated that they were likely to be repeats. The raw data was suppressed. Full examination of all the actual raw data would resolve the issue.

It should also be noted that the real-time PCR analysis equipment was malfunctioning in Stefanoni's lab, which led her to switch to the Qubit fluometer for quantification. This problem and its "solution", which made it impossible to know with assurance how much DNA, if any, was in the low DNA samples, was not reported to the defense explicitly.

The malfunction of the real-time PCR analyzers is consistent with a falsification to give erroneously high readings of the amount of DNA present in a sample.
 
This is old news now but tonight I did learn that many pro guilt people ( of Amanda Knox AND Raffaele Sollecito, when they remember him ;) ) did not know that one of the presiding Judges at the Italian Court of Cassation judgement in March last year who found the pair not guilty, has now been appointed President of said Court. Unanimously. Paolo Bruno. Complimenti!

http://www.strill.it/citta/2016/04/...sidente-di-sezione-della-corte-di-cassazione/

Yes ths was posted ages ago. The most significant part is that according to the article the 5th section is a high level CRIMINAL division not civil as claimed by the the PGP.

The strange thing is that no other story covering this has surfaced. I searched in Google.it and Google but alas nothing. Maybe I made some mistake but it would be nice to find more sources.

I'll look again.
 
Last edited:
p331 Darkness Descending. If you dispute a fact, the onus is on you to state why. Do you really think a Forensic Scientist wouldn't know the difference between various bodily fluids. The idea is contemptible.

Because you make things up, yourself, you think everyone else has the same low standards as you. For example, your claim Amanda and Raff remain the warmest of friends.

You FINALLY present the actual page after being asked several times, but still no quote from Stefanoni. It's rather difficult to dispute an alleged fact if I don't know exactly what was said and in what context which is why you must present the quote and cite the source.

"No, I was quoting Stefanoni elsewhere p 331. "

No, you have never quoted her. You said she said that it wasn't menstrual blood. I have found absolutely no reference to Stefanoni saying any such thing anywhere, not even on TJMK where they discuss the book. I do not have Darkness Descending. And as you have consistently failed to provide an actual quote, I can only assume she either never said it at all and/or you do not have access to the book either.

I didn't make anything up. That's your specialty.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom