Continuation Part 21: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Err nobody named Catnip has posted in this thread. And I was referring to the lack of any PGP for 10+ pages now which must be a new record. I never did accomplish my quest to find out why 99.9% of PGP believe the postal police were talking to Amanda at 12:35 (impossible) and 100% believe Quintavalle saw her, remembered he saw her after she was arrested, then forgot again a few days later, then remembered again a year later. I'll never know

This might be an aide memoire.

This report was filed as soon as the police got back to the office (within a day).

 

[Desert Fox]

Maybe this message will get move to "message hell" but might I suggest people just put Vixen on their ignore list?

 

[Vixen]

I don't know, why are you skeptical? You should be critical that she acted as if a mediator, and in that played a key role in one of the steps people trained in the R.T. use to induce a confession.

I think she was well-meaning, but her intervention would have had anybody leaping over the table to thump her one. Seriously? We have a murder and she's wheeled in to gabble on about her skiing accident.

However, note how Amanda quickly took the hint and developed amnesia.

In court when asked if she'd had amnesia before, she said, no. So clearly, she can remember that, at least.

 

[Stacyhs]

Try Stefanoni's interview in Darkness Descending.

I have done a google search and can find nothing on this. I do not have access to Darkness Descending nor does Amazon have a "look inside" this book. Besides, it's what Stefanoni said in her court testimony that counts.

It is not up to me to find evidence to support your claim. It is up to you to support your claims by providing the quote and page number from the book.

 

[Bill Williams]

Maybe this message will get move to "message hell" but might I suggest people just put Vixen on their ignore list?

Done.

All I now need is a buddy-system, someone to slap me upside the head if I fall off the wagon......

 

[Stacyhs]

It's a quote from Raff' defense forensic expert in Gary King's book, The Murder of Meredith Kercher.

Please inform yourself before coming to conclusions.

What conclusions have I come to exactly?

"Vixen, yesterday I asked you to quote and cite where Raff's defense expert said "the radials on the print were too indistinguishable" in regard to the alleged size 37 female shoeprint on the pillowcase.

You have not done so. Why is that? "

That is a question, not a conclusion.

As I said before, it is your responsibility to provide evidence of your claims. It is not the responsibility of others to have to search for it. However, I did do a search inside King's book under the words "indistinguishable, unclear, pattern, radials, print, sole, woman's shoe, et al. I found nothing supporting your claim. If you want to continue to claim that Raff's defense expert said the radials on the print were too indistinguishable", I suggest you provide the quote and pg number.

 

[Stacyhs]

What Americans don't realise is that we Brits don't take the ECHR seriously. Prime Minister David Cameron and Home Secretary Theresa May have started arrangements to opt out of the European Human Rights Act all together.

It matters not at all how Britons view the ECHR when it comes to their right to review Knox's appeal of the calunnia conviction. Italy must abide by their decisions and Italy has made no mention of opting out of the Human Rights Act.

 

[Stacyhs]

So you're claiming Donnino was not just a language interpreter/mediator, but a cop trained in the Reid technique? Why are we sceptical?

My goodness. Who is jumping to (erroneous) conclusions now? Perhaps if you didn't do that quite so often, you wouldn't be so skeptical.

I never said she was "trained in the Reid technique"? What is a fact is that what Donnino did is one of the tactics used in Reid. Whether she had knowledge of that, I don't know. It doesn't really matter. The psychological affects on the suspect are the same.

 

[Grinder]

This is how far reaching the conspiracy is, the conspiracy that some here continue to claim falsely got Raffaele and Amanda acquitted 13 months ago.

One of the acquitting judges of the ISC has just been unanimously elected Cassazione's president!

http://www.strill.it/citta/2016/04/csm-nomina-giudice-reggino-paolo-bruno-presidente-di-sezione-della-corte-di-cassazione/

(English Machine translation)

​

A wee bit late on this.

 

[Stacyhs]

I can't believe how ignorant people are. I am no medic, but even I know menstrual "blood" is only a small percentage of actual blood. The rest being various body fluids. Of course the first thing Stefanoni would do would be to establish this, and so she did and said the blood in the bathroom was not of that type. Full stop.

I doubt men give much thought to what constitutes menstrual blood.

Please provide evidence that Stefanoni established this was not menstrual blood by scientific testing. As I said earlier, I can find no mention of this anywhere except for your claim that it exists in Darkness Descending. Your say-so is not evidence.

If you do not provide this evidence, than I can only conclude that you cannot.

By the way, DD is full of false information. For example, these I found on TJMK quoting DD:

"On campus, back in the US, Amanda had been fined for being drunk and disorderly at a party held in a fellow student’s house. During the incident she had also insulted the police."

False. She was given a NOISE violation. There was no charge of being drunk and disorderly nor any note by the officer of having insulted him.

"He posted pictures of himself on the internet wrapped in blood-covered bandages, brandishing a meat cleaver, and wrote a weird story to go with the images. "

False. His friend, Angelo Cirillo, testified he had wrapped him in toilet paper as a gag. No blood was involved at all...not even simulated.

Russell also claims the "murder knife" was "found to have been scrubbed with bleach".

False. Never proved and contradictory to the prosecution claim that MK's DNA was on the knife. Scrubbing with bleach would have destroyed any DNA.

Darkness Descending is full of proven incorrect and plain false info.

 

[Stacyhs]

Sarcasm rarely goes far in a criminal court.

It does not go unnoticed that Planigale's points showing your claims about the gloves and rags were false are ignored in favor of an irrelevant comment.

 

[Vixen]

What conclusions have I come to exactly?

"Vixen, yesterday I asked you to quote and cite where Raff's defense expert said "the radials on the print were too indistinguishable" in regard to the alleged size 37 female shoeprint on the pillowcase.

You have not done so. Why is that? "

That is a question, not a conclusion.

As I said before, it is your responsibility to provide evidence of your claims. It is not the responsibility of others to have to search for it. However, I did do a search inside King's book under the words "indistinguishable, unclear, pattern, radials, print, sole, woman's shoe, et al. I found nothing supporting your claim. If you want to continue to claim that Raff's defense expert said the radials on the print were too indistinguishable", I suggest you provide the quote and pg number.

What? No, I was referring to the size 42 prints. Giovanni Arcudi is quoted as saying, " That footprint does not possess clear and definite characteristics."

I urge you to bring yourself up to speed on the facts of this case.

 

[Vixen]

It matters not at all how Britons view the ECHR when it comes to their right to review Knox's appeal of the calunnia conviction. Italy must abide by their decisions and Italy has made no mention of opting out of the Human Rights Act.

There are plenty of ECHR rulings we ignore. For example, most UK employees are given a piece of paper to sign "opting out" of the ECHR ordained 48-hour week. (Maximum hours an employer can make staff work.)

I've come across other examples in my profession.

 

[Bill Williams]

A wee bit late on this.

Better late than never!

When was this first announced? (The news could not have been stifled by the all powerful PR machine, you'd think they would have led with this!)

 

[Vixen]

It does not go unnoticed that Planigale's points showing your claims about the gloves and rags were false are ignored in favor of an irrelevant comment.

I stopped as soon as I realised Planigale was getting me to look up all sorts of things just for the fun of it. My pet peeve is time wasting.

 

[Vixen]

I doubt men give much thought to what constitutes menstrual blood.

Please provide evidence that Stefanoni established this was not menstrual blood by scientific testing. As I said earlier, I can find no mention of this anywhere except for your claim that it exists in Darkness Descending. Your say-so is not evidence.

If you do not provide this evidence, than I can only conclude that you cannot.

By the way, DD is full of false information. For example, these I found on TJMK quoting DD:

"On campus, back in the US, Amanda had been fined for being drunk and disorderly at a party held in a fellow student’s house. During the incident she had also insulted the police."

False. She was given a NOISE violation. There was no charge of being drunk and disorderly nor any note by the officer of having insulted him.

"He posted pictures of himself on the internet wrapped in blood-covered bandages, brandishing a meat cleaver, and wrote a weird story to go with the images. "

False. His friend, Angelo Cirillo, testified he had wrapped him in toilet paper as a gag. No blood was involved at all...not even simulated.

Russell also claims the "murder knife" was "found to have been scrubbed with bleach".

False. Never proved and contradictory to the prosecution claim that MK's DNA was on the knife. Scrubbing with bleach would have destroyed any DNA.

Darkness Descending is full of proven incorrect and plain false info.

How would you know, if you ae not familiar with the content? As your President Barack Obama said today in London, in the USA, we had three main channels; the conservatives watched FOX and the liberals read NYP or WT. They became more entrenched in their views as they never heard any opposing ones. He urged young people to listen to people with opposite views and you might learn something.

 

[Grinder]

Better late than never!

When was this first announced? (The news could not have been stifled by the all powerful PR machine, you'd think they would have led with this!)

I was referring to when I posted it here but the story came out Wednesday, April 20, 2016
15:14

 

[Vixen]

A wee bit late on this.

It says it is an "executive office", so does this mean he has been moved sideways out of the judiciary?

I can honestly say, I have rarely read a more poorly written MR than his. He doesn't show much legal prowess at all.

 

[toto]

They might be wrong, but, hey, they're the supreme court = final.

If the perception in the Italian media is important about the finality and meanings of Supreme Court verdicts :

"From now officially innocent...
...the judges ..felt that the two former students "have not committed the crime"

http://www.lintraprendente.it/2015/03/italia-colpevole-di-colpevolismo/

There is no need to rehearse the arguments. I am just pointing out the perception in the Italian media. Thanks to MichaelB for original post on IIP.

"Se il materiale probatorio non esisteva o non era sufficientemente solido come mai si è arrivati a due condanne? Se invece era solido, come mai due assoluzioni, l’ultima definitiva? Se le“prove genetiche” non erano definitive e schiaccianti, come mai per due volte hanno determinato la condanna degli imputati? Da oggi ufficialmente innocenti, sono stati per quattro anni in carcere; una fama indesiderata da pubblico esame e relativo ludibrio li accompagnerà per il tempo della loro vita; tutta la verità resta sconosciuta perché l’unico colpevole, che ha confessato e scelto un rito abbreviato, viene riconosciuto tale ma in concorso, con chi non si sa. La sentenza precedente ieri è stata annullata senza rinvio, cancellata insomma, e questa è una decisione rara in Cassazione. Stando al dispositivo, i giudici della quinta sezione, presieduta da Gennaro Marasca, hanno ritenuto che i due ex studenti «non hanno commesso il fatto». "

 

[Grinder]

It says it is an "executive office", so does this mean he has been moved sideways out of the judiciary?

I can honestly say, I have rarely read a more poorly written MR than his. He doesn't show much legal prowess at all.

Please provide the list of MRs you've read?

This would be the section most significant: Appointed councilor, was assigned to the Fifth Criminal Division where he worked, as part of the bench or presenter, of some of the most important processes of the Italian judicial history: the G8 summit in Genoa, the massacre of Piazza della Loggia in Brescia, countless processes organized crime and terrorism; the murders of Marta Russo, Marco Biagi, Merdith Kercher and Chiara Poggi. -

If accurate this would mean the 5th division wasn't some second-rate civil court.