If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. Part II

You really, really, really don't want me to do this. You don't, because the answer is going to be another thrashing like the one I gave earlier today.

This is one of the reasons no one will give me the information I am asking for. You know what's coming.

I played your "basic physics" game for a reason. Now, it's time to put this thread, and your absurd arguments, to bed for good.

I will wait a little longer to see if anyone will give me the information I'm asking for, and then I will just proceed on my own.

I am asking you about a claim you made first on March 13 as near as I can tell. A claim you made; yours; not anyone else's. When I questioned you about it then, you had trouble focusing; you repeatedly tried to shift the conversation away from the towers to WTC 7. You are doing that again, here, just to a different distraction.

Focus, please.

You claimed WTC 1 collapsed with constant acceleration. Please support that claim.
 
Cherry picked testimony that people heard things that sounded to them like explosions at some point in time during the fires is not proof of explosives.Some witnesses referred to the sounds of the bodies of jumpers hitting the pavement as sounding like explosions, do you believe that the jumpers all had explosives strapped to them?

At this point I'm only responding to show how ridiculous your arguments really are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1zED8dy63w

Listen to the firefighters. Do you think the jumpers caused the entire lobby to collapse on the firefighters? Seriously, why do you even bother posting your nonsense?

Why would NIST test for explosives? This wasn't their job.

LOL. They were supposed to investigate the collapse. If they didn't test for explosives, or if no one else did, then it just proves massive incompetence at multiple levels.

The fact that no one tested for explosives is not proof they did not exist.

The testimony of the people who were there indicates that explosives were used. You simply refuse to listen to the people who where there. Go ahead, mock them. That is what you are doing.

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that had explosive charges been used, then way more then 100 people would have heard them, they would have been audible over the greater part of New York and New Jersey Cities, somewhere in the range of about 4 million people!

This argument wins for most absurd argument of the day. People heard explosions. The evidence is there.

What physical evidence of explosives did NIST ignore?

I can't even respond. How can you ignore what you don't test for?

You are not even trying anymore. You know you are defeated, so you're in the last convulsions before death. It's obvious.
 
I am asking you about a claim you made first on March 13 as near as I can tell. A claim you made; yours; not anyone else's. When I questioned you about it then, you had trouble focusing; you repeatedly tried to shift the conversation away from the towers to WTC 7. You are doing that again, here, just to a different distraction.

Focus, please.

You claimed WTC 1 collapsed with constant acceleration. Please support that claim.
Be patient. It's coming.
 
http://gothamist.com/2015/12/28/williamsburg_fire_explosion.php

Some Williamsburg residents say they heard an explosion before the fire.

I just heard a massive explosion. It sounded like a bomb went off or something

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/76901341/Large-fire-explosions-at-Christchurch-power-station

Residents heard explosions coming from the Islington substation

"Just heard three loud bangs, looked outside and saw smoke and flames everywhere."

Neighbour Kate Cameron said "it sounded like gunshots."

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/phillipsburg/index.ssf/2016/02/fire_explosion_reported_at_war.html

"When I came around the corner it was completely lit up, the building on the property," Tipton said, adding later: "It sounded like an explosion. ... It was well on its way before the fire company got there."

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/upd...s-account-st-aubin-fire-sounded-like-gunfire/

An eye witness said she thought gunfire was going off this morning, during a major fire at Gallichan Marine, St Aubin.


An eyewitness described hearing multiple explosions, and police said the fire started at a 20x5m portacom, then spread to two nearby portacoms as well as affecting a nearby Vodafone cellphone tower.

http://www.readingeagle.com/news/article/authorities-continue-probe-of-lower-heidelberg-fire

A dog and at least two cats were killed in the fire, initially reported as an explosion about 1:30 p.m. Thursday.

http://www.rrstar.com/article/20160106/NEWS/160109786

Restaurant owner Frank Alvarez was preparing to open his Riverside Boulevard eatery about 10:30 a.m. today when smoke began to pour into the building after what sounded like an explosion on the roof.

"I was back in the kitchen getting everything ready when all of a sudden, I heard a big noise," Alvarez said. "I started seeing smoke all over the kitchen. It sounded like an explosion, like somebody hit the freezer door."

http://woodtv.com/2015/11/04/explosive-fire-at-holland-apartment-2-injured/

“It sounded like two big explosions, and then I heard people screaming,” Dianne Osborn, who lives in the apartment complex, said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...d/news-story/b200cc9b84528b80a5716da6e88595a1

A large block of concrete fell 50m to earth and people near Balston St site said it sounded like an explosion.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...wn-load-plummets-30-stories-article-1.2241739

We heard a loud explosion. It was like a movie. It’s a miracle none of us got seriously hurt,” said the worker, who did not give his name.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/avi...nicking-and-screaming-as-debris-exploded.html

"My daughter was so traumatised, it was so shocking. It sounded like a massive explosion, like something whining in the sky and then it just went bang

People started panicking and running around. One man was shouting 'There has been a bomb'. The flames were very strong.”

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=4q0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=1409,9293801&hl=en

"I thought I heard an explosion," said another eyewitness, Gordon Gilman, whose home is on the river bank.

http://rense.com/general25/bods.htm

"It sounded like an explosion," a witness told reporters.


Now, seriously, please, just go on, tell me that hearing what you term to be an "explosion" is really evidence of explosives.
 
None of these people said that they saw explosives

Listen to this eyewitness. Watch his gestures. Does it look like he only heard explosions, or did he see them?

https://youtu.be/MCSEDSSxdNs?t=1732

Also, what do you think happened to the people close enough to witness the vast majority of explosions?

Did you forget about Barry Jennings? He says he was thrown back into the 8th floor of WTC7. Does that not count?
 
Listen to this eyewitness. Watch his gestures. Does it look like he only heard explosions, or did he see them?

https://youtu.be/MCSEDSSxdNs?t=1732

Also, what do you think happened to the people close enough to witness the vast majority of explosions?

Did you forget about Barry Jennings? He says he was thrown back into the 8th floor of WTC7. Does that not count?

Barry said the lights went out and then something threw them around. Could Mr. Jennings see in the dark? . Hess said "no explosion".
 
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Now, seriously, please, just go on, tell me that hearing what you term to be an "explosion" is really evidence of explosives.
OK.
Do you deny that numerous people claim they heard explosions on 9/11?
Do you deny that several people actually experienced the forces from what they claim were explosions?
You know you can't deny this, because it happened. If so many people claim they heard explosions, and if some people claim they experienced the forces from what they claim were explosions, shouldn't the steel have been tested for explosives? Yes, yes it should have.

Someone should have tested for explosives. The fact that no one did this proves only one thing. It only proves massive incompetence. It does not prove that there were no explosives.
 
OK.
Do you deny that numerous people claim they heard explosions on 9/11?
Do you deny that several people actually experienced the forces from what they claim were explosions?
You know you can't deny this, because it happened. If so many people claim they heard explosions, and if some people claim they experienced the forces from what they claim were explosions, shouldn't the steel have been tested for explosives? Yes, yes it should have.

Someone should have tested for explosives. The fact that no one did this proves only one thing. It only proves massive incompetence. It does not prove that there were no explosives.

Carbon soot, carbon monoxide, hydrogen, sulfur all were present on9/11/2001, why wouldn't fuel are blasts occur?
 
You keep using the term "word salad" to describe pieces of writing that I, for one, am perfectly capable of understanding. I suspect most of the other posters here are similarly capable of understanding them as well, because they are in fact quite clear and simple. So what do you think it says, to those of us who are capable of understanding them, that you are not?

Dave

"Word Salad" "tricks" "silly games" are code words for I don't understand simple concepts and am terrified to address them.

I'm sure the lurkers are impressed.
 
At this point I'm only responding to show how ridiculous your arguments really are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1zED8dy63w

Listen to the firefighters. Do you think the jumpers caused the entire lobby to collapse on the firefighters? Seriously, why do you even bother posting your nonsense?

None of them saw explosives. If they had been in a lobby and explosive had gone off that collapsed the lobby, none of them would have been there to talk about it. You know what actually happened? They were in the lobby when WTC2 collapsed.

Don't believe it? They speak of 3 explosions. They note the first was Flight 175 hitting WTC 2, the third was WTC 1 collapsing. What do you think number 2 was?

LOL. They were supposed to investigate the collapse. If they didn't test for explosives, or if no one else did, then it just proves massive incompetence at multiple levels.

No they weren't meant to investigate the collapse, they were tasked to do a more indepth study into the collapse initiation. As to the High-lighted part, why do you keep ignoring what you are told? The NYPD and FBI using over 55 teams of over 12,000 people, a total of over 40,000 when you add in the other groups, investigated the collapses as a crime, and they looked for traces of explosives and found none. ARE YOU CLAIMING THAT THE FBI AND NYPD ARE IN ON IT, OR THAT THEY ARE INCOMPETENT?

The fact that no one tested for explosives is not proof they did not exist.

Learn to read. The FBI and NYPD tested and searched the rubble and found nothing. They were the ones responsible for the initial criminal investigations. NIST was not and never was.

The testimony of the people who were there indicates that explosives were used. You simply refuse to listen to the people who where there. Go ahead, mock them. That is what you are doing.

No, the testimony of these people indicates that they heard and experienced things that they assumed were explosions. This in itself is NOT evidence of explosives, especially in the absence of real physical evidence such as explosive damaged steel, chemical residues, explosions heard over the greater part of NYC when the collapses occurred, and the remains of the explosives in the rubble, which thousands of people. most of them Cops, Fire crews and demolition experts all would have seen these things and subsequently have remained totally silent about.

This argument wins for most absurd argument of the day. People heard explosions. The evidence is there.

People heard what they believed to be explosions. These are two decidedly different things. And that's before getting to actual explosions still don't prove Explosives as many things can explode in a fire, as evidenced above.

I can't even respond. How can you ignore what you don't test for?

Apparently the same way you ignore every investigation before NISTs

Let me use an analogy

A plane crashes. The FBI, Police and NTSB all investigate it. The Police says, after examining the wreckage we found no evidence of foul play. The FBI says, after checking the wreckage we can find no signs of explosives or physical damage inconsistent with a crash. The NTSB says After studying the wreckage and the FDR we have determined that the plane suffered a lose of control which the pilots were unable to correct, resulting in the plane going into an irrecoverable stall, before falling into a steep dive and crashing.

Now the Airline and the Pilot's association comes along as says "Look, we're a bit worried that there might be something wrong with these planes, can we get a more in depth investigation?"

Thus NIST comes along and after studying it says. "The plane suffered icing in the Pitot tubes causing the Auto Pilot to believe that the planes air speed had dropped and so it put the plane into a climb. The Pilots failed to understand the problem and when they tried to recover airspeed the indicators were telling them a false reading resulting in them putting the plane is to steep dive they could not pull out from."

Now a Conspriacy theorist comes along and declares that because NIST didn't investigate the possibility of the plane being shot down by a missile, they didn't do their job right.

This is the same thing you are doing. The FBI and Police did an extensive criminal investigation into 9/11 and part of that was the testing of steel for residues and seeking out any steel that could tell them or those working with them what happened. No physical evidence of explosives was found. That trumps everything, unless you are going to start claiming that it was magical explosives that exploded so quietly that only those right next to the building heard them, and they did so without leaving any traces on the building remains.

If so, what use is a new investigation, it's going to find exactly what the old ones did.
 
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Eyewitness testimony exists to the contrary.

Proof: https://youtu.be/MCSEDSSxdNs?t=1515

NIST did not test for explosives.

Proof: http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtctowers.cfm Point 22

Failure to test for explosives is not proof that explosives were not used.

Fact. Over 100 eyewitness reported explosions.
Fact. NIST did not test for explosives.

Conclusion, NIST ignored evidence and failed to perform a complete investigation.

Your denial of these facts is conclusive proof you are in denial.

Liar
 
None of them saw explosives. If they had been in a lobby and explosive had gone off that collapsed the lobby, none of them would have been there to talk about it. You know what actually happened? They were in the lobby when WTC2 collapsed.

The testimony speaks for itself. It does not match your interpretation.
 
Carbon soot, carbon monoxide, hydrogen, sulfur all were present on9/11/2001, why wouldn't fuel are blasts occur?

I mentioned that previously myself in one of these incompetent threads. In fires, explosions of a small or large nature can occur in the proximity of the actual burning with no need for intentional "explosives" having been specifically paced. Heating sealed containers of fluids (even water or milk (etc.)) can cause explosions (which will leaves traces of what exploded but not traces of explosives as none were needed. Other fluids as well as dry chemicals can act as explosives and also act as accelerants without anyone having placed them to be such .
 
Do you deny that numerous people claim they heard explosions on 9/11?

No I don't deny it.Now your turn. Can things that are not explosives sound like explosions?

Do you deny that several people actually experienced the forces from what they claim were explosions?

No I don't deny it. Now your turn. Can things like, oh say a 110 story building falling down beside where you are create forces that you might think is an explosion?

You know you can't deny this, because it happened. If so many people claim they heard explosions, and if some people claim they experienced the forces from what they claim were explosions, shouldn't the steel have been tested for explosives? Yes, yes it should have.

And I know you will ignore this. IT WAS! By the FBI and NYPD who both conducted their own criminal investigates into the attacks and collapses.

Someone should have tested for explosives. The fact that no one did this proves only one thing. It only proves massive incompetence. It does not prove that there were no explosives.

IT WAS TESTED!
 
Really?

https://youtu.be/5LO5V2CJpzI?t=29

https://youtu.be/3Tr0TZa3WeI?t=123

Your version of what happened does not match reality.

"Saw" an explosion in a stairwell. What could possibly be wrong with saying someone "saw" an explosion in the same stairwell they are standing in? Unlike you, I will answer my question, though it should be considered rhetorical.

IF anyone is actually close enough to see an explosion, supposedly great enough to destroy concrete stairs, while in a fire escape stairwell, then one will be killed or severely injured. Neither Jennings or Hess suffered any major injury. Jennings hurt his leg from the exertion of coming down the stairs, but that's it!

No, lights were out, building shakes, they feel their way back up to the 8th floor in dust and smoke.

Do we really need to go over this yet again?
 
The testimony speaks for itself. It does not match your interpretation.

The testimony was that there were three explosions. #1 they stated was the plane hitting WTC 2. Number 3 they said was WTC 1 collapsing.

That leaves one "explosion" the one they were in the lobby for. What do you think might have occurred in that lobby when WTC 2 collapsed?
 
Learn to read. The FBI and NYPD tested and searched the rubble and found nothing.
Please provide links to the official FBI and NYPD reports were they clearly say they searched for evidence of explosives and found none. Make sure the reports list what types of explosives they searched for.
 
That leaves one "explosion" the one they were in the lobby for. What do you think might have occurred in that lobby when WTC 2 collapsed?

The testimony of the first two firefighters is about one event. The third firefighter is talking about something different.
 

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