Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread II

[Skeptic Ginger]

Not all. About 6 in ten.

So the data base for NY is better than the one you used in WI and you are reaching more pro-Sanders folks with the calls.

The point is you cannot judge the voter mood in NY based on the response of the people you are calling. It reflects the data base you are using, no more no less.

 

[Trakar]

Keep your bullet in your pocket!

Bill’s Comments Expose Why Many Black Voters Don’t Trust Hillary
by Joshua Adams
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joshua-adams/bills-comments-expose-why_b_9645652.html

...
With these comments, Clinton insinuates that protesting against mass incarceration that disproportionately affects African American citizens is analogous to defending gang leaders and drug dealers. This is a form of indirect political gas-lighting, perpetuating the idea that Black communities get what they ask for (whether it’s the crime or the punishment) and that their protests against systematic injustice is ultimately hypocritical. A different contemporary example of this is the “What about black-on-black crime?” derailment of critique of police brutality.

The Clintons and their supporters often mention that many of Clinton’s anti-crime policies were supported by leaders in the Black community. However, that point is a misportrayal of their actions and intent. It wouldn’t be much to surmise that Black leaders were asking for drug and violence free, safer communities, not a mass incarceration state that sees more African-American men imprisoned, on probation, or parole than were enslaved in 1850...

...While the majority of Black voters don’t see the Republican Party as a viable alternative, the tide of dissatisfaction with establishment Democrats is rising. They feel Democrats take the African American vote for granted, issuing promises during the campaign that they don’t make good on once elected, implicitly (sometimes explicitly) appealing as “the lesser of two evils” of the two political parties, and are just as dismissive to critique from Black protesters as right-wing conservatives. Bill’s comments were a great example of where this disdain comes from.

Bill sought to support his wife and defend himself, but he may have increased the divide between Black voters and Hillary Clinton.

I never really imagined Hillary as Barney Fife, but now I see the resemblance, she's a better deputy than a sheriff, and she needs to keep her bullet in her shirt pocket to keep from shooting herself in the foot, ...again.

 

[BenBurch]

So the data base for NY is better than the one you used in WI and you are reaching more pro-Sanders folks with the calls.

The point is you cannot judge the voter mood in NY based on the response of the people you are calling. It reflects the data base you are using, no more no less.

No, same SELECT statement. The people are what have changed.

 

[Trakar]

Hillary v. Trump

Establishment pundits on all the news channels keep trying to draw comparisons between Sanders and Trump because they are both against the establishment sections of the parties they represent, but actually there are many more similarities between the two front-runners from both parties:

Clinton vs. Trump: Even their supporters don’t like them
By David Lightman
http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article70343792.html

...“The winner would wind up one of the least popular presidents” to take office in recent times, said Lee Miringoff, director of the Marist Institute for Public Opinion in New York, which conducted the nationwide poll.

Marist found overwhelming, largely unprecedented ill will towards Clinton and Trump was a big driver of voter sentiment, particularly among independents.

Fifty-three percent of all Clinton voters, and three of four independents, said they’d pick the former secretary of state because they’d be voting against Trump.

Sixty-one percent of Trump voters, and nearly two of three independent supporters, said their vote for the New York real estate mogul would be largely a vote against Clinton. Only 35 percent said they’d be casting a pro-Trump vote...

Clinton and Trump’s unpopularity makes them weaker general election candidates.

Clinton leads Trump in a head-to-head matchup, 50 to 41 percent, largely because of support from constituencies that have been loyal to her throughout 2016...

Sanders’ more positive image, though, would make him the stronger Democrat in a general election, as he tops Trump 57 to 37 percent...

Sanders at the moment would do well with the same constituencies as Clinton, but would edge Trump among whites. Sanders also had a 63 to 30 percent advantage among women, better than Clinton.

Overall, Sanders also would get more votes for him than against Trump. Forty-nine percent would be voting for Sanders while 48 percent would be voting against Trump.

The scenario changes dramatically when the Democrats are paired against Cruz and Kasich.

Clinton and Cruz, a senator from Texas, are tied at 47 percent, as Cruz runs particularly strong with independents, with an 11 percentage point edge.

Kasich, the governor of Ohio, argues he’s the most electable Republican, and the poll confirms that. He beats Clinton by 9, winning huge margins among independents. Sanders, though, easily beats Cruz or Kasich...

Whether you think Sanders can motivate people enough to pass his ambitious legislative agenda, when it comes down to the general election, the most important issue is electability,...the math speaks for itself

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

No, same SELECT statement. The people are what have changed.

And yet the polls show Clinton ahead in NY and Sanders has just had two bad days of NY press.

Dream on.

 

[wareyin]

This disagrees with what I said, how?

The only issue is that I typed "delegate" instead of "super delegate."
For pointing that out, I appreciate your semantic assist.

That, and you claimed that Sanders could have 2,383 delegates while Clinton had more, which is why I explained the numbers.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Seth Abrahamson seems to think it is a distinct possibility:

The Democrats Are Headed for a Contested Convention Too
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-...for-a-contested-convention-too_b_9620362.html



Being the optimist that I am (always hoping for the best result for this nation and humanity in general), I still believe that the American people will give Bernie Sanders the win outright in the primary, and via near unanimity in the general in November.

Yeah... no. These silly claims about "X of the last Y elections" or "not meeting the majority of all delegates in pledged delegates alone" or "wins in non-Southern States" are standards that losers (to borrow an insult from Trump) use to lick their wounds.

Asking the superdelegates to overturn the the candidate that obtained the majority of pledged delegates and the majority of the vote is not going to work with these weak positions.

 

[Trakar]

The Democratic Choice:

Military Historian Agrees with Bernie Sanders: Hillary Clinton is an Unreconstructed Hawk
Amy Goodman
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/8/military_historian_agrees_with_bernie_sanders

...ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, I don’t know that I would judge somebody’s qualifications simply on one particular vote, but I have to agree with the basic argument that Senator Sanders is making, that Secretary Clinton is an unreconstructed hawk. Now, in terms of the rhetoric, she comes across as more reasoned than the Republican opposition, but the fact of the matter is, if we elect her to be our next commander-in-chief, we are voting for the continuation of the status quo with regard to U.S. national security policy, and specifically U.S. national security policy in the Greater Middle East. So, for people for whom that is an important issue, who want to see change in U.S. policy, she’s not going to be the vehicle for change...

Colonel Andrew Bacevich, a retired Vietnam combat veteran, who lost his son in Iraq in 2007 is a professor emeritus of international relations and history at Boston University, a historian and author of the new book, "America’s War for the Greater Middle East: A Military History."

As a Progressive Republican in the traditions of Theodore Roosevelt, Dwight David Eisenhower, and Abraham Lincoln, who has difficulty not raging over the self-centered, short-sighted idiocy, corruption and incompetency of the modern Republican party, the choice between a Democratic Neocon, and Democratic Socialist is not at all a tough choice to make.

Feel the Bern!

 

[Trakar]

Yeah... no. These silly claims about "X of the last Y elections" or "not meeting the majority of all delegates in pledged delegates alone" or "wins in non-Southern States" are standards that losers (to borrow an insult from Trump) use to lick their wounds.

Asking the superdelegates to overturn the the candidate that obtained the majority of pledged delegates and the majority of the vote is not going to work with these weak positions.

I can see why you prefer to borrow language from Trump to express your own considerations. I don't agree with your perspective, conclusion or source, but I can see why you choose to borrow from that source.

 

[Trakar]

That, and you claimed that Sanders could have 2,383 delegates while Clinton had more, which is why I explained the numbers.

Are you saying that super delegates are not delegates?

 

[The Big Dog]

And yet the polls show Clinton ahead in NY and Sanders has just had two bad days of NY press.

Dream on.

Worse than bill treating blm activists with the typical Clinton disdain?

Dream on.

 

[wareyin]

Are you saying that super delegates are not delegates?

No, I am saying that 2,383 is over half of all delegates, pledged and super. It's not possible for both candidates to have over half of all delegates.

 

[Trakar]

And yet the polls show Clinton ahead in NY and Sanders has just had two bad days of NY press.

Dream on.

Sanders has also had considerable good NY Press, Just as Hillary has continued to suffer the consequences of her surrogates and her own ambitious incompetency.

small sample:
New York Voter: Clinton is ‘Morally Bankrupt’
http://freebeacon.com/politics/new-york-voter-clinton-morally-bankrupt/

Hillary broke the law with subway campaigning
http://nypost.com/2016/04/08/hillary-broke-the-law-with-subway-campaigning/

Protesters greet Hillary Clinton
http://www.wkbw.com/news/protesters-greet-hillary-clinton

Reporter: Clinton Camp Used Static Noise to Drown Out Speech at Colorado Fundraiser
http://freebeacon.com/politics/clinton-static-noise-speech-colorado/


Point being, there is press around any big event. Haters gonna hate, and fans gonna spread the words they like. What you read is determined more by which perspective you favor or fear, and there are plenty of sources for everyone to find something to suit them. I don't see any indication that Sanders or Hillary are getting any passes or overwhelming attacks except from the same sources they have always gotten either.

 

[Trakar]

No, I am saying that 2,383 is over half of all delegates, pledged and super. It's not possible for both candidates to have over half of all delegates.

That does make it more clear, my apologies. It was my mistake, not sure where the confusion arose on my part but for some reason, even with your explanation I was stuck in a loop. I do see clearly now, I was wrong, and not merely mistaken.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

T... I was stuck in a loop. ...

May just explain more than you think.

 

[Trakar]

May just explain more than you think.

Classy

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I can see why you prefer to borrow language from Trump to express your own considerations. I don't agree with your perspective, conclusion or source, but I can see why you choose to borrow from that source.

Cute. Continue to ignore the elephant in the room that is the actual count.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Military Historian Agrees with Bernie Sanders: Hillary Clinton is an Unreconstructed Hawk
Amy Goodman
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/8/military_historian_agrees_with_bernie_sanders



Colonel Andrew Bacevich, a retired Vietnam combat veteran, who lost his son in Iraq in 2007 is a professor emeritus of international relations and history at Boston University, a historian and author of the new book, "America’s War for the Greater Middle East: A Military History."

As a Progressive Republican in the traditions of Theodore Roosevelt, Dwight David Eisenhower, and Abraham Lincoln, who has difficulty not raging over the self-centered, short-sighted idiocy, corruption and incompetency of the modern Republican party, the choice between a Democratic Neocon, and Democratic Socialist is not at all a tough choice to make.

Feel the Bern!

This is a classic pot and kettle scenario. The truth is that Sanders is as much of a dove as another senator that campaigned against Hillary based on their opposition to the Iraq war.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Classy

I don't know what else to say to you, and Ben, and Fudbucker. You continue to maintain this fantasy that despite Sanders' faux momentum defies the actual data.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

And now Bill seriously puts his foot in it while campaigning for Hillary. Heard about this on NPR yesterday.

Bill Clinton: ‘Black Lives Matter’ Protesters Are Defending Murderers and Drug Dealers (VIDEO)

Needless to say, the reaction from the black community and activists was less than positive; while the reaction from Republicans were highly favourable.

Twitter Just Unleashed on Bill Clinton

Excerpt:



When the far-right nutjobs agree with you and support your policies, you're definitely doing something wrong.

This may have cost Hillary a big chunk of her lead, and is likely to damage her going into the PA and NY primaries unless she can do some serious damage control. Unfortunately, she's not shown much sympathy to the BLM or other activist movements, and has been putting her foot in it repeatedly herself.

For the most part, he's right. St Michael anyone?

This will cost Hillary nothing