Proof of Immortality II

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Jabba said:
- Does anyone here believe that the opinion that we each have but one, finite, lifetime is possibly wrong?
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No. There is no evidence for any organism to resurrect from dead (yes from frozen, freeze-dried, exposure to space vacuum, etc.; all limit cases). There is no evidence for dualism, either, so there are no minds/selves to return to new vessels.

Normally a hypothesis is formulated from observations to explain them or relate the heretofore unrelated. When there is zero evidence of any kind on which to base conjecture, as in this case, we have pure speculation. A.k.a., baseless guessing.

Had you done some proof in the math, we would still be short of anything but that, since once again, there are simply no observations for any sort of confirmation, regardless of any theoretical construct or how it is derived.

Then again, you know all that.

***
Bored leads me to post and feed the troll. Meh. But it leads me to think of a possible rule change: let posters go entirely off topic when a thread is obviously just a false promise with no intent of delivery. At some point, "La-la-la" ought to be a valid post.
 
Jabba said:
- Does anyone here believe that the opinion that we each have but one, finite, lifetime is possibly wrong?
Click to expand...



Yugoslavia on a purple pogo-stick, surrounded by lemon trees- all named Nigella, vibrating in the wake of gout.
 
Argumemnon said:
You know Jabba, by his own admission, stops at the first question/comment, right? I fear you're now the designated jabba correspondant!
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I'm only biting because I get the feeling he's gonna try his hand at a modal logic argument, which I would find really funny.
 
Jabba said:
Agatha,

- I didn't really "calculate" it...

- In my opinion, it is quite possible that OFL is wrong. Personally, I think that the prior probability that it is wrong is significantly higher than .01 -- but I was thinking that most everyone would accept at least a .01 prior probability. And actually, I still think that's the case -- it's just not the case on this forum...

- But anyway, I should start trying to support my belief that the OFL opinion is (more than) possibly wrong.

- That you have no memory of any past lifetimes is not proof that you didn't have any. It's quite possible that you just forgot them.
- The same is true for your friends that don't.
- And, there are all sorts of people who do claim to remember at least one past life, and many of them seem credible.

Interestingly, for most of history this great question was not even regarded as an open one. Rather, it was held to have an obvious answer. Across the cultures of the world, both East and West, and right through the long march of history, people have affirmed that this life is one chapter in a larger story of existence, and that there is life after death. We think of this attitude as religious, fostered by the clergy, and for the most part it was. Many of the world’s greatest scientists and philosophers, however, from Socrates to Cicero to Galileo to John Locke to Isaac Newton, also affirmed their belief in the afterlife. Even skeptical Enlightenment figures such as Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin professed similar views. Europe is the only continent where a bare majority of people believe in the afterlife. By contrast, nearly 80 percent of Americans today affirm life after death, and the percentage is even higher, in fact close to 100 percent, in non-Western cultures.

D'Souza, Dinesh (2009-11-02). Life After Death: The Evidence (pp. 6-7). Regnery Publishing. Kindle Edition.

- I'll be back with more reasons for keeping an open mind about life after death. And, an open mind about the issue is all you need in order to make the math work.
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********. If you had any proof you would show us and not talk about Baysian Math - which doesn't even apply to this problem.
Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to comply with rule 10. Do not mask swear words with alternate spellings in the public sections. If you must swear, type the word(s) in full with correct spellings, and let the autocensor take care of it.


Now...STFU or show us Jesus - or a God - or a Ghost - or a Miracle....Anything!
 
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Garrette said:
Shaka, when the walls fell?
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Jabba, your use of a Bertrand Russell quote is beyond belief. Are you aware of the fact that in his essay "Why I Am Not A Christian" Russell states that he does not believe in god or immortality. He also doubts that Jesus was an historical figure. I also recall he knew a little about math and would have had a good laugh at your mathematical shenanigans.
 
Jules Galen said:
If you had any proof you would show us and not talk about Baysian Math - which doesn't even apply to this problem.
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It doesn't even apply a little bit.

All his accusatory talk about keeping an open mind is the same intellectually bankrupt begging we get from every fringe theorist who can't survive a critical analysis. We find that "keeping an open mind" is generally code for "Keep lowering your standard of proof until my claims survive." Open-mindedness has never been simply to accept any and all claims, especially with no proof. Keeping an open mind simply means not prejudicially rejecting the proposition.

No one here has done that. Jabba said he could prove immortality mathematically. Everyone sat patiently and waiting for him to lay out his proof. Then they asked questions designed to understand and test the proof. That is all open-mindedness requires. Had they been closed-minded they would have rejected his conclusion without being shown the proof. Had they been closed-minded they would have considered every evident fault in the proof a fatal error and provided no opportunity for clarification and revision. None of that was done. Jabba's proposal was given a fair hearing. He just thinks "open-minded" means there's no rational way the proposal would fail.

What's most ironic is that those who whine the loudest about "keeping an open mind" are rarely able to do it themselves. They never approach the prospect of their own potential error with anything approaching an open mind. If Jabba wants to impress us with his own open-mindedness, he can demonstrate an open mind to the prospect that he's wrong. In fringe claims, "open-minded" means only open to the prospect of what's being foisted.
 
fibbermcgee said:
Jabba, your use of a Bertrand Russell quote is beyond belief. Are you aware of the fact that in his essay "Why I Am Not A Christian" Russell states that he does not believe in god or immortality.
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Given that Jabba is now proposing reincarnated souls that have no memory of their previous lives, Russell's Teapot is relevant here.
 
Mojo said:
Given that Jabba is now proposing reincarnated souls that have no memory of their previous lives, Russell's Teapot is relevant here.
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A more useful implement might be that named after a William, rather than a Bertrand.
 
Jabba said:
- Does anyone here believe that the opinion that we each have but one, finite, lifetime is possibly wrong?
Click to expand...


It is wrong. Some of us have less than one finite life. Take the case of Guillaume Bernard Depallier of Avignon, France. He hasn't been born and thus has not achieved one finite life. In case you think he will be born someday in the future and thus satisfy the 'one finite life' requirement, he won't. His mother died in 1963 without giving birth to any children.
 
Monza said:
It is wrong. Some of us have less than one finite life. Take the case of Guillaume Bernard Depallier of Avignon, France. He hasn't been born and thus has not achieved one finite life. In case you think he will be born someday in the future and thus satisfy the 'one finite life' requirement, he won't. His mother died in 1963 without giving birth to any children.
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Monza,
- You're right. My claim has really always been that the opinion that we each have one, finite, life (at most) is wrong.
 
- Since you guys all think that the opinion that we each have but one finite, life (at most) is possibly wrong, can you suggest a number for the prior probability of ~H?
 
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