The Greater Fool
Illuminator
Nur weil Sie die Nachricht nicht verstehen kann, bedeutet nicht, dass es keine Informationen .
Creationist argument about DNA and information
- Thread starter barehl
- Start date
Nur weil Sie die Nachricht nicht verstehen kann, bedeutet nicht, dass es keine Informationen .
If you can't understand "The Message" COMMUNICATION
...it's merely NOISE, there is NO Information.Ergo...what needs to happen PRIOR to sending 'data'; so as to Create Information....?
Also, could you please respond; I'm hearing crickets...
Norbert Wiener Professor Mathematics MIT...
“Information is information, neither matter nor energy.”
Wiener, N., Cybernetics, or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine, Hermann et Cie, The Technology Press, Paris, 1948.
Question: if Information is nether Matter or Energy and you're a Materialist/Realist... who by the quintessential tenet of your World View, believe that Matter and Energy is all that there is...THEN ahhh, you have a what they call in the Industry: A PARADOX!! i.e.,
How can you believe INFORMATION even EXISTS ?? Pray Tell....?
regards
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
If you can't understand "The Message" COMMUNICATION
Ergo...what needs to happen PRIOR to sending 'data'; so as to Create Information....?
Also, could you please respond; I'm hearing crickets...
Norbert Wiener Professor Mathematics MIT...
“Information is information, neither matter nor energy.”
Wiener, N., Cybernetics, or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine, Hermann et Cie, The Technology Press, Paris, 1948.
Question: if Information is nether Matter or Energy and you're a Materialist/Realist... who by the quintessential tenet of your World View, believe that Matter and Energy is all that there is...THEN ahhh, you have a what they call in the Industry: A PARADOX!! i.e.,
How can you believe INFORMATION even EXISTS ?? Pray Tell....?
regards
As usual:
Appeal to Ignorance, and appeal to incredulity.
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
If you can't understand "The Message" COMMUNICATION
Ergo...what needs to happen PRIOR to sending 'data'; so as to Create Information....?
Also, could you please respond; I'm hearing crickets...
Norbert Wiener Professor Mathematics MIT...
“Information is information, neither matter nor energy.”
Wiener, N., Cybernetics, or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine, Hermann et Cie, The Technology Press, Paris, 1948.
Question: if Information is nether Matter or Energy and you're a Materialist/Realist... who by the quintessential tenet of your World View, believe that Matter and Energy is all that there is...THEN ahhh, you have a what they call in the Industry: A PARADOX!! i.e.,
How can you believe INFORMATION even EXISTS ?? Pray Tell....?
regards
Maybe you could read a little, copypasta boy .
Son of Inigo
Thinker
Really?? Please list the: paleontologists, anthropologists, archaeologists, geologists, evolutionary biologists, theoretical physicists "non-Experimental", cosmologists...that have built these....???
You're Equivocating Fallacy x 2: Pseudo-Scientists with actual "SCIENCE".
And Science with Technology...
What Science Isn't, Part III: Science is not Technology:
"One of the mistakes many people make in thinking about science is to confuse it with technology. As a result, science often either receives undue credit (for the "miracles of modern science" in one's kitchen) or undue blame (for everything from overly firm tomatoes to nuclear war). In fact, science doesn't make things. Scientists developed the understanding of radiation sufficient for the invention of the microwave oven, but neither making a microwave oven nor using it are science. Scientists are in the business of generating knowledge, whereas engineers are in the business of generating technology.
People doing science often use sophisticated technology, but science doesn't require it. Our ecologist observing natural bird behavior and our geologist examining an outcrop neither use particularly sophisticated technology. In fact, the only technology in common to all science is the notebook in which observations are recorded.
In short, science often leads to technology, and it often uses technology, but it isn't technology, and in fact it can operate quite independently of technology."
http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/1122science3.html
So figure out what ACTUAL "Science" is first, THEN...Re-Compute.
regards
ps. Do you have a Definition for Information....? So we can stay on Topic.
thanks
Bolding mine
Daniel, you keep doing it. Why do you keep quote mining? You will be caught out.
To the point I bolded above.
From http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/1122science3.html in the section entitled What Science Isn't, Part I: A Historical Perspective
I found that quote from........ your source
Wow. That is what science is, Daniel, from the very link and source you are trying use to discredit the science the scientist in this thread do for a living. The science behind the TOE. Also notice the lack of 'Independent Variables' being mentioned. I wonder why that is?
I warned you that your mined quotes are not helping your argument one bit, Daniel. But you just keep trying it. What is the definition of insanity?
I know you won't respond to this, as you have not responded to any of my debunks of the mined quotes. This is for the others.
The Greater Fool
Illuminator
Daniel said:If you can't understand "The Message" COMMUNICATION...it's merely NOISE, there is NO Information.
Ergo...what needs to happen PRIOR to sending 'data'; so as to Create Information....?
Quite the nonsense you spout.
There is information in the post. Just because you are unable to understand the information, does not mean it's not there.
Information exists, therefore it exists.Daniel said:
If I view information and understand it, and Shalamar views information and understands it, and Abaddon views information and understands it. Is it not information because Daniel views it an fails to understand it?
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If you can't understand "The Message" COMMUNICATION
Just because one receiver of "The Message" can't understand it, doesn't mean that others, including the intended recipient, can't. The German U boats received their orders encrypted, and to everyone else* the Message, The COMMUNICATION, was merely noise. To the U boat captain it was important information ......oops, sorry, important Information.
*Until Alan Turing did his thing.
So to put your silly analogy into context, just because you, Daniel, can't understand the information conveyed by DNA, it doesn't mean that that information isn't useful (indeed critical).
OK, Prove It....? Extract the Information here....
eyfmv sbekfl ehaftjf imyayeod fasfstllgjda kolvn evtrsxrefd qzofdwr pgjdfner yerithdnvkdkg mdskd.
Go ahead...?
It Exists as what?? Remember....
“Information is information, neither matter nor energy.”
Wiener, N., Cybernetics, or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine, Hermann et Cie, The Technology Press, Paris, 1948.
Go ahead....?
Woe woe woe, there. How did you understand it? Again...
What needs to happen PRIOR to sending 'data'; so as to Create Information....?
Begging The Question Fallacy; again...How did they Understand It ??
regards
What choice has he got?
His only other option is to say "Yep, you're right. I've got nothing".
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
Seemingly random characters taken from the english alphabet, with 11 'words' mashed out by someone trying to create a gotcha message. And failing.
Appeal to incredulity, and quote mining.
Appeal to ignorance.
Nothing needs to happen for information to be created.
In my case, I can look at the information, and based on my knowledge and education, make an inference from it.
That's True, of course... that's not my argument. What needed to happen PRIOR to 'anyone' understanding the message?
What Analogy
Where is the Information in DNA...? Show us a Picture? Please show on DNA Proper, the Instructions for the assembly of: Aminoacyl tRNA synthetase and Glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase...?
regards
The Greater Fool
Illuminator
Daniel said:
Yes, I have extracted information from your message. It is about you, but it is not polite, so revealing it would put me on the wrong side of moderation.
Are you having a problem keeping up? It's information.Daniel said:
A public school education. Of course, I excelled in my younger years, so they put me straight into school when I was old enough. Fear not, it will be your time soon.Daniel said:
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
Sure. You are clearly right-handed.
So you did not read the link provided. Why am I not surprised?
Nothing. Why would you think anything needs to happen?
And it is spelled "Whoa". "Woe" means something else.
We can read.
Do not offer what you cannot provide.
I know this one: the big bang.
Yep. You're right. It obviously doesn't contain any information at all, and is therefore completely useless. Pointless stuff. Why the hell we all carry it around goodness knows. Why every living cell we've ever looked at carries it around is clearly impossible to work out. We may as well scrape the stuff out and do without it (I mean, think of all the weight). It's obviously just ballast.
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
I had one of those once...
Well here, try this....
To hold a Materialist/Methodological Naturalist position you must conclude, when viewing DNA (The Genetic "CODE") and it's attributes, that stupid atoms/molecules not only Created the "CODE"----but then conducted a meeting between DNA and (not exhaustive): mRNA, IF's/EF's/RF's, both sub-units of the Ribosome, all the tRNA's and aminoacyl tRNA synthetase's... which then "hammered out" the convention (Software) and processes (1/1000th of which would make Einstein Blush) and any conflicts to make sure everybody was on the same page... so it and they could survive; because No "Functional" Protein-ee, No Life-ee.
Of course, everyone attending "The Meeting" save for DNA/mRNA/tRNA, are in WHOLE or Part...."Functional Proteins"; which then Begs the Question...Where'd the FIRST "Functional" Proteins, which are CODED for on DNA and takes the Entire Process above to make in the first place....Come From???? Minor detail, eh?
Then they closed the meeting and went for cocktails. Then @ the Bar, they discussed HOW they were gonna handle WATER (75% of all Cells), especially the problematic BOND between the Amino Acid....that the aminoacyl tRNA synthetase's just forged with tRNA and "PROOF READ", that has a half-life of .5 seconds...IN WATER (where this particular process is all taking place) and the RF......THAT, with one itty bitty H2O Molecule in the "A" Site within the Ribosome, CAUSES the Entire Complex to BREAK APART...and STOP "TRANSLATION"!! SEE above: No "Functional" Protein-ee, No Life-ee.
Then, since there's no free lunch and since the DeltaG for Protein Synthesis is POSITIVE (for all you 2LOT fans out there), had to bring GTP and ATP into the mix (along with all the sub-process that MAKE THEM...."Coded" on DNA) because without the SPECIFIC ENERGY SOURCE/type/currency and Placement/Timing would be like watching the Space Shuttle Launch after they sprayed the outside with Diesel.
So Go Ahead....?
There's No Quotes, that Pavlov's Dogs can't run around and spit out frenzied Baseless Assertion Fallacies: "Quote Mining" "Quote Mining"... because they haven't a cogent substantive argument for absolutely anything; AND...which they have no clue what 'Quote Mining' is/means anyway LOL.
What NOW, eh?? Was I on The Grassy Knoll, miss any Comma Splices, not in the Right Font ?? C'mon conjure up something
oy vey
.......miss any Comma Splices, not in the Right Font ?? C'mon conjure up something
oy vey
Well, you asked.
In all seriousness Daniel, if you think DNA does nothing, could you tell us why it is in every living cell, and could you also tell us how heredity works (why do you look somewhat like your mother or father?).
Absolutely unbelievable. I didn't say anything of the sort. YOU MADE THE CLAIM!!! (MikeG: "the information conveyed by DNA" )
SO YOU SHOW, Support what you say sir....??????
regards