An Eye on Israel

[The Atheist]

Face it, compared to the likes of Assad, Saddam and the Egyptian Junta, Israel is a beacon of mercy.

^ This is why people suspect ulterior motives in support for Israel.

They are not a "beacon of mercy" in comparison to any country.

New Zealand is a beacon of mercy in comparison to Al-Assad and Saddam.

Israel not being as despicable as insane dictators does not make them good, just not as bad.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

^ This is why people suspect ulterior motives in support for Israel.

They are not a "beacon of mercy" in comparison to any country.

New Zealand is a beacon of mercy in comparison to Al-Assad and Saddam.

Israel not being as despicable as insane dictators does not make them good, just not as bad.

The difference between Israel and NZ:

NZ doesn't share land borders with failed states nor has it had to fight a war of survival within the last 50 years, nor has it had anything like Saddam Hussein or the Assads in its neighbourhood. It's easy to condemn Israel when you have the luxury of knowing only peace for 70 years.

 

[dudalb]

The fashionable Left Wing Hatred for Israel is a principal reason why I no longer consider myself on the political Left.

And note how all those who violently condemn Israel are usually pretty silent or very brief in condemning terrorism against Israel?

 

[dudalb]

Excuse me, I've belatedly realised that I conflated your second post in this thread with the OP, so when I referred to the OP I was really meaning your uncritical statements of support for the Israeli state, which are primarily in that second post.

My bad.

And, when the "Zionist Enity" is destroyed what will happen to the Five Million Jews who live there?

Funny, I seldom get a serious response to that question from the "Death To Israel!" crowd.

 

[Navigator]

^ This is why people suspect ulterior motives in support for Israel.

They are not a "beacon of mercy" in comparison to any country.

New Zealand is a beacon of mercy in comparison to Al-Assad and Saddam.

Israel not being as despicable as insane dictators does not make them good, just not as bad.

The difference between Israel and NZ:

NZ doesn't share land borders with failed states nor has it had to fight a war of survival within the last 50 years, nor has it had anything like Saddam Hussein or the Assads in its neighbourhood. It's easy to condemn Israel when you have the luxury of knowing only peace for 70 years.

True enough.

New Zealand could do worse than supporting Israel - and lets face it - She does indirectly because she supports America and doesn't agree with terrorist BS...but the only thing surrounding NZ is ocean - mostly friendly giving ocean...it could be argued that Israel could learn from NZ how to compensate the colonized but I imagine that She would have a problem if te Maori were to use those funds to build up arsenal with the motivation to kill the European mother-bonkers. which unfortunately is what many Palestinians and other Arabs are in training to do to Israelis.

NZ needs to clean up Her act in relation to the serious water pollution She is undergoing...and what is Israel doing in relation to clean water and conservation of water? (Google is your friend - go find out).

Water and Israel- videos





Water and Israel info



Yes - The World could learn some valuable positive things from Israel - which could conceivably help everyone to come out from under the yoke of Corporate greed and mismanagement.

...but not while half truths and twisted beliefs about Israel and her agenda are still believed and spread about...

 

[The Atheist]

It's easy to condemn Israel when you have the luxury of knowing only peace for 70 years.

And not admitting they are merely less evil than their oppressors is plain dishonest.

NZ needs to clean up Her act in relation to the serious water pollution.

Long since covered in the NZ thread.

...but not while half truths and twisted beliefs about Israel and her agenda are still believed and spread about...

That works both ways.

There are those who see Israel as a "beacon of mercy", while others see them as Satan come to Earth.

The truth, as usual, is in the middle. They are neither a paragon nor outright evil.

Israel, instead of building bridges, has built walls and gun emplacements. Instead of sending food, it sends rockets.

As a famous Jew once reputedly said: "As ye sow, so shall ye reap."

 

[NWO Sentryman]

It's easy to have a spotless image in the eyes of western media when you don't have any real challenges next door, like the entire neighbourhood imploding on itself (Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Jordan, Turkey) and not having to fight tooth and nail to survive. And Israel did try building bridges with the rest of the ME. They only lasted between them and Jordan/Egypt.

 

[asydhouse]

It's easy to criticise Israel when you are a sheltered westerner who never had to spend a day in uniform and live next door to Fascist Dictators who give zero compunction to using chemical weapons on their own people (and interestingly enough, the ISM base considers Assad to be a hero of socialism). Face it, compared to the likes of Assad, Saddam and the Egyptian Junta, Israel is a beacon of mercy. As for "massive bombardment", I think I heard Bashir Al-Assad laugh at the suggestion that Gaza is subject to "massive bombardment"

Back up this with references from these last five years during which Assad has shown his true colours, or retract it.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Back up this with references from these last five years during which Assad has shown his true colours, or retract it.

How's this: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/syria-israel-george-galloway-bashar-al-assad-439598

 

[asydhouse]

And, when the "Zionist Enity" is destroyed what will happen to the Five Million Jews who live there?

Funny, I seldom get a serious response to that question from the "Death To Israel!" crowd.

I find it sickly amusing that Navigator wants to claim the high ground of positive thinking, but his ideal state has done nothing but sow hatred and distrust since before it was founded right up until today. It could have peace and prosperity for all if it were to adopt a just and honest and compassionate stance and policies towards its Palestinian neighbours instead of occupying them with brutality for the past 6 decades.

Israel is and has been thereby creating the threat to their successful existence. You can not seriously claim that it is a success as things stand.

I identify with the "left" because of my instinct towards compassionate and just treatment for all human beings, including the mistaken politicians leading Israel into its predicament. By my understanding, no leftist would call for the destruction of Israel nor its people. If any do, I condemn them and declare them hypocrites and counterproductive, immature self-gratifying shallow-minded fools, just as the Weathermen in the 60s were not serious revolutionaries but self-gratifying idiots.

As such, I find your question of the ilk of "when did you stop beating your wife?" sophistry which no one serious would deign to answer. That's why you don't get an answer to your question. It's not a serious proposal. Israel could and should be a successful nation, but they have been betrayed by terrorist-minded politicians and a population led astray by the under-siege mentality and propaganda that several here are regurgitating.

If you are truly concerned for the people of Israel and for the future of peace in the region, educate yourself as to what these Jewish dissenters are saying:

https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org

https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/JVP-Nakba-Fact-Sheet.pdf

 

[Navigator]

Long since covered in the NZ thread.

And was any verdict drawn as to what has to be done to fix that problem? In relation to what Israel has been able to do with water, don't you think following that example would benefit NZ?

That works both ways.

There are those who see Israel as a "beacon of mercy", while others see them as Satan come to Earth.

The truth, as usual, is in the middle. They are neither a paragon nor outright evil.

Well I have not stated otherwise. I am not looking at this in a purely moral light, for who (said the famous Jew) is without sin - please cast the first stone.

Israel, instead of building bridges, has built walls and gun emplacements. Instead of sending food, it sends rockets.

That is the nature of war. But you are incorrect that Israel does not help those it has injured in relation to war. [see here] You mistake the Christian way as being that of Israel - She does not forgive Her enemies unless those enemies change their attitudes and become true friends. Your Christian like world view on this subject is probably comendable enough in relation to Christians but is unrealistic in terms of Israels position and besides it is historically correct that when push came to shove in relation to enemies of Christianity that they set aside their beliefs in turning the other cheek etc and got down to the bizz of defending their territories from their enemies...if they hadn't of done so then most likely there would be no such thing as Christianity anymore.

Its' the devil you know' - and 'the lesser of two evils' because no one is claiming the human race is perfect - so these things have to pan out as they will.

As a famous Jew once reputedly said: "As ye sow, so shall ye reap."

Exactly! Here is more evidence of that in how Israel is conducting herself.

12 top ways Israel feeds the world

 

[NWO Sentryman]

In a part of the world where chemical weapons are SOP for ethnic unrest, Israel has acquitted itself quite well in terms of restraint. As for any supposition of a one-state solution, turn to Syria, Bosnia and Iraq then ask yourself: is that a way to guarantee peace?

And it's easy to preach compassion when you live in a comfortable first world country that never had to fight steal and kill just to survive.

 

[asydhouse]

How's this: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/syria-israel-george-galloway-bashar-al-assad-439598

Nowhere in that article is there any reference to International Solidarity Movement.

You accused ISM of worshipping Asad. Provide a reference to ISM making any such statement within the time of his murderous response to the Arab Spring, or retract your slander.

 

[Navigator]

asydhouse - Israel would be more than happy to help her enemies with infrastructure horticulture clean water building projects healthy education, and all those other things which 'make nations great' but alas - those enemies hate the thought of being helped by Israel or the west in general and their idea of a great nation differs so much as to be one of the main causes for conflict. It is just one of those quirky evolution things whereby if consciousness doesn't evolve it devolves and there is no middle ground in relation to that due to the movement of time and space which consciousness is involved within.

Crap happens and the next generation is left to sort it out while also making stupid mistakes on the fly. it is just part of the human story and the best advice I can give you here is not to focus primarily on the negatives but also look closely at the positives and even accentuate those positive things by SUPPORTING them.

You CAN support something good even that it has bad things in it which have to be changed. Standing their waving your banner of righteousness isn't going to cut it.

 

[asydhouse]

In a part of the world where chemical weapons are SOP for ethnic unrest, Israel has acquitted itself quite well in terms of restraint. As for any supposition of a one-state solution, turn to Syria, Bosnia and Iraq then ask yourself: is that a way to guarantee peace?

Tell that to the civilian victims of the massive bombing of Gaza.

And it's easy to preach compassion when you live in a comfortable first world country that never had to fight steal and kill just to survive.

How is it that your sympathy is only for Israelis, who have a very easy time of it compared to the Palestinians who are being systematically driven from their ancestral homes?

You glorify one side, and dismiss the desperation of the oppressed people who have been living under occupation for three generations.

Honestly, read the links I provided above.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Nowhere in that article is there any reference to International Solidarity Movement.

You accused ISM of worshipping Asad. Provide a reference to ISM making any such statement within the time of his murderous response to the Arab Spring, or retract your slander.

I said ISM's Base. It's like saying Drumpf's base are violent racists, and demanding me to get a quote that Drumpf* explicitly advocates racist violence and condones the Ku Klux Klan.

*I got the Drumpfinator Chrome Extension

 

[asydhouse]

asydhouse - Israel would be more than happy to help her enemies with infrastructure horticulture clean water building projects healthy education, and all those other things which 'make nations great' but alas - those enemies hate the thought of being helped by Israel or the west in general and their idea of a great nation differs so much as to be one of the main causes for conflict. It is just one of those quirky evolution things whereby if consciousness doesn't evolve it devolves and there is no middle ground in relation to that due to the movement of time and space which consciousness is involved within.

Crap happens and the next generation is left to sort it out while also making stupid mistakes on the fly. it is just part of the human story and the best advice I can give you here is not to focus primarily on the negatives but also look closely at the positives and even accentuate those positive things by SUPPORTING them.

You CAN support something good even that it has bad things in it which have to be changed. Standing their waving your banner of righteousness isn't going to cut it.

You haven't read the links I provided, have you?

Maybe if you really want to be a positive influence, you should join the people at Jewish Voice For Peace and stop white washing the Israeli state with your uncritical support and your propagating of its propaganda.

Really, check it out. It's a positive movement!

https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Tell that to the civilian victims of the massive bombing of Gaza.

Assad and Putin are laughing hard at the description of "Massive Bombing". Palestinians on a per capita basis have suffered less than Iraqis in 2003, or Syrians right now. And the IDF go to pains to minimise civilian casualties.

How is it that your sympathy is only for Israelis, who have a very easy time of it compared to the Palestinians who are being systematically driven from their ancestral homes?

Let's see:

- Subject to industrialised extermination
- Kicked out of their homes and subject to racist violence after said extermination
- They then go to the best possible sanctuary and then fight three wars for survival in their ancestral home promised to them by the British Empire (who never resolved the disputes between them and the Palestinians).
- Said Palestinians have a Nazi Recruiting Sergeant in charge of them (FFS he organised Waffen SS divisions) while they throw their weight behind an Arab League attempt at exterminating every Israeli. Thrice. Within 25 Years.
- Meanwhile, they had neighbours like Saddam Hussein and Hafez/Bashir Al Assad who came close to using chemical weapons on them several times.

Yeah, Israelis had an easy time of it.

In the Middle East, it's practically Kill or Be Killed. Were Assad or Saddam in charge of the West Bank/Gaza, they'd have nerve gassed them into submission.

 

[asydhouse]

I said ISM's Base. It's like saying Drumpf's base are violent racists, and demanding me to get a quote that Drumpf* explicitly advocates racist violence.

*I got the Drumpfinator Chrome Extension

In other words, you have no evidence of anyone involved with ISM voicing support for Assad, and your slanderous accusation is just a poisoning of the well.

ISM is a grassroots organisation of Jews and Palestinians working together to stop some of the worst atrocities committed by illegal settlers against farmers in Palestine. They invite foreigners from the West to join them in Palestine to help protect the farmers. There is no politics involved in this direct action of solidarity and support for oppressed people. My wife was one who has been over there and witnessed violence at first hand.

Retract your statement that the ISM base has ever supported Assad's grotesque butchery of peaceful demonstrators, which has led to insurrection, which would never have happened if he had responded with the sort of reasonable and just actions of social justice, as he should have. He instead chose to pursue a path of oppression and greed, which has destroyed his country. The man's a fool, and anyone supporting him is a fool.

The parallel with Israel's behaviour is striking.

 

[asydhouse]

Assad and Putin are laughing hard at the description of "Massive Bombing". Palestinians on a per capita basis have suffered less than Iraqis in 2003, or Syrians right now. And the IDF go to pains to minimise civilian casualties.



Let's see:

- Subject to industrialised extermination
- Kicked out of their homes and subject to racist violence after said extermination

-Meanwhile, Jewish terrorists in Palestine were murdering British soldiers, agitating for an Israeli state to be established in the area where the Palestinians were living. The British abandoned the scene to these terrorists after a minimal effort to effect a lawful and peaceful establishment of a Jewish state, and those terrorists now cloaking themselves in a flag of Statehood immediately broke their agreements as sanctioned by the UN and proceeded to massacre and terrorise entire villages in a sweep across Palestinian lands, outside of the area they had agreed to hold, betraying the beginning of the Israeli State by setting in motion a tragedy which never had to happen if they had simply behaved honourably and peacefully, the repercussions of which are echoing in an ever escalating deterioration of hope for peace down to today…

https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/JVP-Nakba-Fact-Sheet.pdf


- They then go to the best possible sanctuary and then fight three wars for survival in their ancestral home promised to them by the British Empire (who never resolved the disputes between them and the Palestinians).
- Said Palestinians have a Nazi Recruiting Sergeant in charge of them (FFS he organised Waffen SS divisions) while they throw their weight behind an Arab League attempt at exterminating every Israeli. Thrice. Within 25 Years.
- Meanwhile, they had neighbours like Saddam Hussein and Hafez/Bashir Al Assad who came close to using chemical weapons on them several times.

Yeah, Israelis had an easy time of it.

In the Middle East, it's practically Kill or Be Killed. Were Assad or Saddam in charge of the West Bank/Gaza, they'd have nerve gassed them into submission.

You left out an important step in your list.