RE: clintonemails.com: Who is Eric Hoteham?

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Or they did their jobs imperfectly like workers in every other place of business in the world, but it wasn't criminal.

I'd be interested in understanding what your definition of criminal is. She and her minions broke the law in numerous ways. And they did so knowingly. We can argue over whether it deserves to be prosecuted, or what the punishment should be, but the law is pretty clear.

My prediction actually is that Hillary will be indicted, but that it won't be enough to derail her candidacy. And if she wins the election, the prosecution will either be dropped, or a special prosecutor will be authorized (depending upon the level of Republican control of Congress, as well as pressure from the media).
 
Or they did their jobs imperfectly like workers in every other place of business in the world, but it wasn't criminal.

But these aren't like other workers(employees) these are the Clinton's!. That husband and wife team who have so much integrity it just spills off onto their "workers".
 
You can't have it both ways. Either they knew the rules and chose to violate them or they did so unintentionally. They don't get to decide the difference between "a huge breech" and a, what, "standard breech." The laws do not allow for such a distinction and they knew that as well. If they choose to create "standard" or even "low level" breeches of security, then it's an intentional violation of the law.

It's not the sane view to state they they both violated the law and did not commit a crime.

And why is it that the Clinton folks are the only people who understand the security rules but every professional at every other government agency as well as those at the State department who have stated that there was top secret material is somehow a "minion."

What do you mean you can't have it both ways? Where is that written? Never had Neapolitano ice cream? Black and White cookies?

In short, this is a false dichotomy. How about (in addition to SG's contention that "they're merely human") they know the rules and their professional opinion was that the rules weren't breached in those instances since, as has been pointed out, it's really kind of silly for Spooks, Inc. to deem material "classified hush hush top secret" when it's published and republished on news sites around the world.

The universe is not made up of moral absolutes. The Supreme Court has nine members for a reason.... experts can disagree.
 
I'd be interested in understanding what your definition of criminal is. She and her minions broke the law in numerous ways. And they did so knowingly. We can argue over whether it deserves to be prosecuted, or what the punishment should be, but the law is pretty clear.

My prediction actually is that Hillary will be indicted, but that it won't be enough to derail her candidacy. And if she wins the election, the prosecution will either be dropped, or a special prosecutor will be authorized (depending upon the level of Republican control of Congress, as well as pressure from the media).
So by your definition John Kerry, Colin Powell, Denis McDonough and half the State Department should all be charged with crimes?
 
I'd be interested in understanding what your definition of criminal is. She and her minions broke the law in numerous ways. And they did so knowingly. We can argue over whether it deserves to be prosecuted, or what the punishment should be, but the law is pretty clear.

No evidence of the hilited.

My prediction actually is that Hillary will be indicted, but that it won't be enough to derail her candidacy. And if she wins the election, the prosecution will either be dropped, or a special prosecutor will be authorized (depending upon the level of Republican control of Congress, as well as pressure from the media).

Kudos for actually making a positive claim.

It's ridiculous, but still, good job. Quite bold with the part where Hillary will be indicted, but that it won't be enough to derail her candidacy
 
Flips, Flops and Hillary's Home Boy Stabs Oama in the Back

Here are some high lights from the latest tranche, including Hillary flip flopping on a trade agreement, Hillary calling Harriet Tubman her "home girl," and lots more Obama slamming courtesy of Hillary's intelligence agent sans portfolio/hatchet man Sid Blumenthal.

Flip, flop and back stabbing

I wonder if Obama regrets rehabilitating that disloyal hypocrite. I'm sure he thought he could do less harm to him politically inside the administration than without, of course the Libyan people no doubt disagree
 
What do you mean you can't have it both ways? Where is that written? Never had Neapolitano ice cream? Black and White cookies?

In short, this is a false dichotomy. How about (in addition to SG's contention that "they're merely human") they know the rules and their professional opinion was that the rules weren't breached in those instances since, as has been pointed out, it's really kind of silly for Spooks, Inc. to deem material "classified hush hush top secret" when it's published and republished on news sites around the world.

The universe is not made up of moral absolutes. The Supreme Court has nine members for a reason.... experts can disagree.

You put forward the position that they knew the rules, violated them, but at the same time did not violate them. Your point was they made a decision to breech the security rules because it wasn't going to be "huge breech." This is saying that they did not have ice cream because they did not touch the vanilla in the neapolitian.

Being human doesn't excuse intentional violations. These were not mistakes. The intentional use of the server to, for example, avoid compliance with the FOIA. Beyond that, even by your statements they knew that even publicly available information would be considered classified. Everyone with a security clearance knows this. They made a deliberate choice to violate both record keeping and security laws.

We aren't talking moral absolutes. We are talking about, in this case, very specific laws. Laws that require specific actions and if they were taken.

As far as experts disagreeing, that really falls apart when you refer to those who disagree not as experts but as minions. There is not a robust conversation ongoing on the classification levels of the material. The materials in question are unquestionably top secret as defined by law. Were it to be a case for the Supremes, it would come down 9-0.

The nonsense that it's all newspaper reports is pure fiction. Clinton has not made that argument and has stated she doesn't know what the material is. Yet somehow she knows it's not top secret.
 
In my previous exchanges with TheL8Elvis, he has argued that there was at least a procedural breach, but disagrees that it crosses the line of criminal. I find that angle somewhat weak, but not by any means impossible... it would depend on the loopholes she took advantage of to use the separate system.

I don't think she should have been able to separate her emails like that in the first place. The vast majority of jobs, particularly where the role of work is this important there's usually a standard involved that bars this sort of activity. But you're dealing with a position that's elected, meaning she could very well keep her job (or as in this case become POTUS) provided she's not indicted and all.

Again though... I say this fully aware we have scandals from the Republicans on similar precedent. I can get behind people who at least agree what she did should not have happened as long as it can push measures to prevent or highly discourage either party from doing it in the future. I just wonder if that's a realistic expectation in general... nothing against people I've already gotten into some level of agreement with.
 
In my previous exchanges with TheL8Elvis, he has argued that there was at least a procedural breach, but disagrees that it crosses the line of criminal. I find that angle somewhat weak, but not by any means impossible... it would depend on the loopholes she took advantage of to use the separate system.

I don't think she should have been able to separate her emails like that in the first place. The vast majority of jobs, particularly where the role of work is this important there's usually a standard involved that bars this sort of activity. But you're dealing with a position that's elected, meaning she could very well keep her job (or as in this case become POTUS) provided she's not indicted and all.

Again though... I say this fully aware we have scandals from the Republicans on similar precedent. I can get behind people who at least agree what she did should not have happened as long as it can push measures to prevent or highly discourage either party from doing it in the future. I just wonder if that's a realistic expectation in general... nothing against people I've already gotten into some level of agreement with.
The bit about not criminal is, I think, a bit more possible than you give it credit for. Of course, for this I am leaving out the apparent incidents of Clinton specifically directing staff to remove headers and in-line classification markings; if that occurred then the criminality is obviously there.

What I am referring to is the stuff that originated elsewhere in an unclassified form and was forwarded and discussed by DoS staff and Clinton herself. e.g., NYT articles on drones that were later deemed to discuss classified material.

It is not merely conceivable but plausible that such things would be discussed without recognizing their classified nature. SCI/SAP programs do not advertise themselves -- even among the intelligence community. It would rather defeat the purpose. And not everyone with a clearance knows everything that is supposed to be treated as classified; this is not incompetence or malfeasance; it is the nature of the beast.

And even when such things are known to be classified at some level, it does not automatically mean that those who know some classification exists must treat every mention of it as classified.

Long ago as a young officer in Military Intelligence, someone recommended a fictional novel (a thriller) to me. I bought it and read it and was shocked to learn that this book revealed programs whose products I was familiar with; the book mentioned not only the programs but at least two specific code words referencing those programs. The code words were themselves classified. I broke no laws by keeping that book on my book shelf at home nor in recommending it as a good fictional read to my family and friends. Some of Leftus's posts indicates he thinks otherwise, but I disagree.

More importantly, if I had not known that these programs and code words actually existed, I would undoubtedly not have broken any laws in regard to security violations. The view that many of the now-classified emails on HRC's server fall into that category is not a ridiculous one and, in fact, remains quite possible.
 
Reports ? The only "report" I am aware of is Ed Klein saying this is so.

http://edwardklein.com/hillarys-feeling-the-bern-from-fbi-director-james-comey/

Prosecutors at the Justice Department and managers in Hillary's presidential campaign tell ED KLEIN CONFIDENTIAL that the FBI has zeroed in on three people in Hillary's inner circle.

These three — Huma Abedin, Cheryl Mills and Jake Sullivan — have been notified by the FBI that they should prepare to testify under oath about their involvement in the handling of classified national security secrets on Hillary's homebrew email system


What other "reports" ? Kudos for prefacing with "if"

Missed the answer to this one ...
 
Here are some high lights from the latest tranche, including Hillary flip flopping on a trade agreement, Hillary calling Harriet Tubman her "home girl," and lots more Obama slamming courtesy of Hillary's intelligence agent sans portfolio/hatchet man Sid Blumenthal.

Flip, flop and back stabbing

I wonder if Obama regrets rehabilitating that disloyal hypocrite. I'm sure he thought he could do less harm to him politically inside the administration than without, of course the Libyan people no doubt disagree
It's posted kind this that make the true intent of both this thread and the investigation clear.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
It's posted kind this that make the true intent of both this thread and the investigation clear.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I thought something quite similar but held back. That link is just poking at nothing. There may be some there there, but it certainly isn't there.
 
How is that an answer? Either they are all guilty of breaking laws or none of them are. You can't have it both ways claiming volume or something else makes it a crime, then what's the threshold?
Really? Everyone or no one? Nothing in between?
 
How is that an answer? Either they are all guilty of breaking laws or none of them are. You can't have it both ways claiming volume or something else makes it a crime, then what's the threshold?

No doubt the statute of limitations applies to many current and former State Department officials, including Colin Powell. In any case, one has to look at aggravating factors, which in Hillary Clinton's case are present. The fact that she set up a private server, and archived documents there which were available nowhere else at State is a huge aggravating factor. Hillary's defenders will argue of course that a regular State Department email account would also have been unsecured and inappropriate for classified information. However, an official State Department account would have been available for monitoring by various people at State. It is not only much more likely that classified material would have been discovered on an official account (it was impossible of course to discover it on Hillary's private server since nobody else had access to it, except maybe the Russians and Chinese) and thereby removed, but also any security breaches due to outside hacking were more likely to be discovered.

Remember, it's bad enough to have classified information fall into the hands of our enemies. But it's much worse for it to happen and got our government not to know about it for many years. That second problem is definitely on Hillary, and it wasn't an accident either.
 
It's posted kind this that make the true intent of both this thread and the investigation clear.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Thanks. Jason Leopold, the investigative reporter that issued the foia requests, and sued to have them enforced, just was awarded a major honor for his efforts to promote governmental transparacy.

It is nice that you took the time to say something.

:thumbsup:
 
How is that an answer? Either they are all guilty of breaking laws or none of them are. You can't have it both ways claiming volume or something else makes it a crime, then what's the threshold?

What a silly, silly argument. As an analogy, Powell is the guy who was caught with a roach in his ash tray, while Hillary was running semis of pot out of Mexico for four straight years.

But I have said it a dozen times, throw them both in jail!
 
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