Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Grinder]

To be fair it's possible for them to pick up the luminol droplets on the ground walking over them and they would still be glowing on their booties.

The top of their booties were glowing.

 

[acbytesla]

Its only a problem in the same way phone salesmen pretending to be telecommunications engineers is a problem. Its a problem for people whose entire scientific training comes from the University of Google.

I love it when people take subtle shots at me. Which is fine BTW. You know you are doing something right if they are shooting at you.

I never sold a phone in my life Query. I did however sell switches, routers, software and microwave transceivers and other pieces of communications equipment to Telcom carriers. I am not nor have I ever pretended to be an engineer. That said, I have gone through extensive training courses in Telecommunications.which allows me to easily comprehend the phone call location issues.

I don't actually expect you to believe anyone who defends Knox since I've seen guilters like you also bad mouth judges like Hellman, Heavey, Zanetti, etc. As well as DNA experts like Dr. Hampikian and Dr. Gill as well as engineer Ron Hendry, not to mention Detective Douglas.

 

[Bill Williams]

As far as I can tell, here's a news report of a prosecution of two men who entered the "sealed" cottage in both February and March of 2009.

http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/omicidio-meredith-delitto-imputati-.html

Whereas there is no claim that the two interfered with evidence, there seems to be some criticism implied of the Scientific Police.

 

[Bill Williams]

Its only a problem in the same way phone salesmen pretending to be telecommunications engineers is a problem. Its a problem for people whose entire scientific training comes from the University of Google.


In other words anything that can't fit into a lone wolf explanation is hand-waved away with completely evidence-free speculation. My understanding is the first crime scene photographs were taken not long after 15:00 and the lamp is not on in these photographs.

It could also be explained - and in my view better explained - by person or persons, unwilling to be observed at night, wanting a light source that might not be so visible to neighbours, eg a lamp at ground level. Moving around bare foot on bath towels and entering Knox's room to retrieve a lamp.

A difficult explanation to accept if you are motivated by virulent racism and your worldview finds any other scenario other than a crazed, black sexual predator as inconceivable.

You are kidding, right? The point of your post is this - we accept your "better explanation" or we are racists!? That's not very flattering to your evidence-less assertion, that you have to play the race card to divert from it's ludicrousness.

Hoots!

 

[bagels]

The top of their booties were glowing.

It's hard to put together. I feel like there's almost enough of the puzzle though.

I just realized the two right footprints stop right in front of the clothes drying rack. As if someone is standing there and takes a sidestep getting something from it. Amanda did testify to retrieving clothes from the rack that morning.

Those same prints are also right next to marker 2 where one of Rudy's bloody shoe prints was. Theoretically compatible with a CSI tech cleaning up Rudy's prints while leaving their own in cleaner (which was done before the 19th luminol) although I doubt they did it barefoot.

The footprint in Knox's room points towards her desk, compatible with Knox changing in there or grabbing a towel, or if you want to go wild, compatible with Guede (or Knox I suppose) retrieving the lamp.

I feel like the right bloody bathmat print and the right luminol prints should be connected, and/or all the luminol prints should belong to the same person, because it would make things simpler and less weirdly coincidental, which I like.

 

[Bill Williams]

A difficult explanation to accept if you are motivated by virulent racism and your worldview finds any other scenario other than a crazed, black sexual predator as inconceivable.

You must also believe that in 2009 Judge Massei convicted the pair, based on his belief that Rudy Guede was a, "crazed, black sexual predator". Therefore you believe that Judge Massei was a racist who wrote:

It is not possible, however, to know if Rudy went to Meredith’s room on his own initiative, almost subjugated by the situation which he interpreted in erotic terms (the two young lovers in their room and Meredith who was on her own in the room right next to it) or, instead, he went to Meredith’s room at the urging of Amanda and/or Raffaele.

This Court is inclined towards the first hypothesis.
It cannot see, in fact, the motive for such an invitation on the part of Amanda Knox and/or of Raffaele Sollecito. Besides, Rudy does not seem to have needed to be encouraged to make advances toward Meredith. Abukar Barrow [who was] interrogated on 11 December 2007 (and whose testimony was acquired with the consensus of the parties) testified that Rudy, above all when he was drunk or under the effects of drugs, bothered people, especially young women. He blocked them off physically and tried to kiss them‛.

Nevertheless, it should also be considered, and this seems to be the most probable hypothesis, that Rudy decided on his own to enter Meredith’s room....​

 

[query grind]

You are kidding, right? The point of your post is this - we accept your "better explanation" or we are racists!? That's not very flattering to your evidence-less assertion, that you have to play the race card to divert from it's ludicrousness.

Hoots!

Right, so lets add an unflushed toilet, perfectly consistent with someone not wanting to make a noise in the early hours of morning. Are we building up a picture here?
Getting a lamp to keep light pollution low, not flushing a toilet to avoid loud noises?

Then we have someone returning late morning to flush the toilet:

We look around [facciamo un giro] the house and Amanda is terrified and jumps on me because she tells me that the faeces were no longer in the toilet since presumably before, when she was taking a shower, she had seen that there were faeces in the bathroom and nobody had flushed the toilet. I have a look and leaning over I see the reflection of the water and, not seeing any faeces, I believe what Amanda had told [diceva] me.

Yes, I know that subsequent crime scene photos do show faeces in the toilet - but I am sure it is not the first time Monica Napoleoni has dropped her trousers in order to gain advancement in the Italian police service.

Or if you prefer, uncanny coincidence #6. Amanda Knox placing her right foot precisely in the bloody footprint on the mat and leaving luminol responsive prints in her room and hallway as she bathmat surfed through the house.

 

[query grind]

As far as I can tell, here's a news report of a prosecution of two men who entered the "sealed" cottage in both February and March of 2009.

http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/omicidio-meredith-delitto-imputati-.html

Whereas there is no claim that the two interfered with evidence, there seems to be some criticism implied of the Scientific Police.

" I responsabili di quei strani ritrovamenti potrebbero avere un nome e un cognome."

It is nice to see that finally the Italian media are being ultra-conservative before jumping to any conclusions.

potrebbero....maybe...not sure yet....just possibly...too early to tell. Might even have a birthdate.

Wouldn't it be lovely if the immigrant is Hicham Khiri?

 

[Bill Williams]

Right, so lets add an unflushed toilet, perfectly consistent with someone not wanting to make a noise in the early hours of morning. Are we building up a picture here?
Getting a lamp to keep light pollution low, not flushing a toilet to avoid loud noises?

Then we have someone returning late morning to flush the toilet:


Yes, I know that subsequent crime scene photos do show faeces in the toilet - but I am sure it is not the first time Monica Napoleoni has dropped her trousers in order to gain advancement in the Italian police service.

Or if you prefer, uncanny coincidence #6. Amanda Knox placing her right foot precisely in the bloody footprint on the mat and leaving luminol responsive prints in her room and hallway as she bathmat surfed through the house.

The best part of this was you advanced these claims without once calling anyone a racist. Although I suppose you've held that in teserve if someone calls your Monica on the toilet theory pure BS.

 

[query grind]

The best part of this was you advanced these claims without once calling anyone a racist. Although I suppose you've held that in teserve if someone calls your Monica on the toilet theory pure BS.

There are 7 billion people in the world and only a few dozen have interested themselves to any great depth in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

It doesn't seem particularly surprising to me that this highly self-selected group would have an over-representation of people attracted by the idea of the crazed, black sexual predator. It is drawing on the old lynching tradition that was so strong in the USA in the past. But here the sexualised black predator has not only violated the victim, he has also violated the Princess of Seattle, Amanda Knox, by refusing to take on full responsibility for the crime. This would explain why Friends of Amanda seem so overwhelmed by racial rage and incapable of the rational thought needed to consider other explanations.

I wouldn't put rejection of the refilled toilet concept in the same basket as the 6 uncanny coincidences, however. But it does explain why both Sollecito and Knox gave such vivid and unambiguous descriptions of the toilet being flushed.

 

[Bill Williams]

There are 7 billion people in the world and only a few dozen have interested themselves to any great depth in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

It doesn't seem particularly surprising to me that this highly self-selected group would have an over-representation of people attracted by the idea of the crazed, black sexual predator. It is drawing on the old lynching tradition that was so strong in the USA in the past. But here the sexualised black predator has not only violated the victim, he has also violated the Princess of Seattle, Amanda Knox, by refusing to take on full responsibility for the crime. This would explain why Friends of Amanda seem so overwhelmed by racial rage and incapable of the rational thought needed to consider other explanations.

I wouldn't put rejection of the refilled toilet concept in the same basket as the 6 uncanny coincidences, however. But it does explain why both Sollecito and Knox gave such vivid and unambiguous descriptions of the toilet being flushed.

Either that or your views are standard ad hominem. But it is telling that you simply continue unabated with the thesis that people who disagree with you must be racists,

Yes, that must be it. Point weak, play the race card. Please have a go as to whether Massei is a racist, now for two reasons. One was he advanced theories different than yours, and two that he though Rudy was a crazed rapist, who also was African. That last describer has nothing per se to explain the crime any more than the fact he was right handed....

 

[query grind]

I don't actually expect you to believe anyone who defends Knox since I've seen guilters like you also bad mouth judges like Hellman, Heavey, Zanetti, etc. As well as DNA experts like Dr. Hampikian and Dr. Gill as well as engineer Ron Hendry, not to mention Detective Douglas.

I haven't never mentioned Heavey, Hampikian, Gill, Hendry or Douglas. I really have no opinion on their work since I have never read any of it.

My only point is that your contributions to debate mostly revolve around
1. Obsessively posting about Knox's sex life in college
2. A claim that your "expertise" proves that Kercher's phones could not have been in Lana's garden at 22:13. An "expertise" which is contradicted by the Sollecito's defence consultant.

Since Vixen has left no one is attacking Knox and even if they were, I very much doubt she would want you to "defend" her. What you are doing is following a personal interest. A personal interest that mostly concerns Knox's private life in 2007, which you are free and entitled to do. But don't expect that Knox should feel in any way gratified by your somewhat prurient interest.

 

[Planigale]

Right, so lets add an unflushed toilet, perfectly consistent with someone not wanting to make a noise in the early hours of morning. Are we building up a picture here?
Getting a lamp to keep light pollution low, not flushing a toilet to avoid loud noises?

Then we have someone returning late morning to flush the toilet:


Yes, I know that subsequent crime scene photos do show faeces in the toilet - but I am sure it is not the first time Monica Napoleoni has dropped her trousers in order to gain advancement in the Italian police service.

Or if you prefer, uncanny coincidence #6. Amanda Knox placing her right foot precisely in the bloody footprint on the mat and leaving luminol responsive prints in her room and hallway as she bathmat surfed through the house.

1) Not sure what you think happened re faeces. But the attendant toilet paper tested positive for Guede's DNA. Usually paper flushes more easily than stool, so that is against a flush (or anyone else leaving the sample). Guede accepted he was on the toilet. Guede had a history of not flushing. Guede never denied it was his sample.

2) There is no requirement to place a foot exactly in the print to become contaminated all that is required is that the left foot not become contaminated as only a right foot print is found. As the print is to one edge of the mat I suspect that is the side that Knox's damp right foot was on. It is likely that she probably moved her foot around a bit as she dried. But this is only a possibility. We do not have enough information to know with certainty who made the print, when or if it was definitely blood. So alternative explanations are certainly possible.

 

[query grind]

1) Not sure what you think happened re faeces. But the attendant toilet paper tested positive for Guede's DNA.

According to Dr Stefanoni who I believe is dishonest. And not just dishonest against white defendants.

Usually paper flushes more easily than stool, so that is against a flush (or anyone else leaving the sample).

Not sure what this means.
I suspect Knox has a very good memory whether the toilet was flushed or not. If it was flushed, the DNA attribution to Guede has to have been falsified.

Guede had a history of not flushing.

Yes, well, according to the downstairs rapists who couldn't remember his name.

Guede accepted he was on the toilet..... Guede never denied it was his sample.

The Sollecito defence team never accused the prosecution of falsifying the bra clasp or lying about the downstairs cat's blood either - they went with the cat's blood and invented a bogus explanation for the bra clasp.
It doesn't really matter if Guede was on the toilet or not, if Knox and Sollecito were correct that the toilet was flushed when they arrived, then the DNA attribution has been falsified.

2) There is no requirement to place a foot exactly in the print to become contaminated all that is required is that the left foot not become contaminated as only a right foot print is found. As the print is to one edge of the mat I suspect that is the side that Knox's damp right foot was on. It is likely that she probably moved her foot around a bit as she dried. But this is only a possibility. We do not have enough information to know with certainty who made the print, when or if it was definitely blood. So alternative explanations are certainly possible.

Good god! Of course they are possible - they merely ridiculous that's all. Knox's foot has to become covered with blood traces to the same extent as the footprint on the mat - ie. all or most of the toes and virtually the entire ball of the foot.

Not that I think that the footprints belong to her, but she needs to thank her lucky stars that Dr Stefanoni didn't know how to use hematrace if that was the kind of arguments that Friends of Amanda would have raised on her behalf!

 

[acbytesla]

I haven't never mentioned Heavey, Hampikian, Gill, Hendry or Douglas. I really have no opinion on their work since I have never read any of it.

My only point is that your contributions to debate mostly revolve around
1. Obsessively posting about Knox's sex life in college
2. A claim that your "expertise" proves that Kercher's phones could not have been in Lana's garden at 22:13. An "expertise" which is contradicted by the Sollecito's defence consultant.

Since Vixen has left no one is attacking Knox and even if they were, I very much doubt she would want you to "defend" her. What you are doing is following a personal interest. A personal interest that mostly concerns Knox's private life in 2007, which you are free and entitled to do. But don't expect that Knox should feel in any way gratified by your somewhat prurient interest.

Your representations of my posts are patently false. What a surprise! Which has been the whole total of your contributions. You are trolling. That is your life.

 

[Bill Williams]

According to Dr Stefanoni who I believe is dishonest. And not just dishonest against white defendants.

why you feel the need to play the race card on this one is bizarre.

Yes, well, according to the downstairs rapists who couldn't remember his name.

The "downstairs rapists"? Are you going for laughs here? Didn't work if that was the intent.

Not that I think that the footprints belong to her, but she needs to thank her lucky stars that Dr Stefanoni didn't know how to use hematrace if that was the kind of arguments that Friends of Amanda would have raised on her behalf!

If the footprints don't belong to her, why then do you have it that she had to have stepped on the exact bat-mat foottrack? These posts make no sense, except it does come across as clear that those who can't go along with you on these speculations must we racists.

 

[acbytesla]

why you feel the need to play the race card on this one is bizarre.

The "downstairs rapists"? Are you going for laughs here? Didn't work if that was the intent.

If the footprints don't belong to her, why then do you have it that she had to have stepped on the exact bat-mat foottrack? These posts make no sense, except it does come across as clear that those who can't go along with you on these speculations must we racists.

You can't take this guy seriously Bill The posts are a joke. It wasn't Rudy's race that got him convicted. It wasn't Amanda or Raffaele accusing him either. No, it was the very long trail of evidence Rudy left behind. A trail that simply doesn't exist behind Amanda or Raffaele.

There have been many innocent people or color that have been wrongly prosecuted and incarcerated and executed. But Rudy is not among them. Rudy is NOT, NOT NOT innocent. Whereas it is obvious to the fair minded and clear thinking that both Amanda and Raffaele are innocent.

QG's play of the race card is a desperate attempt to distract people from the juxtaposition of extremely incriminating case against Rudy and the weak pathetic nonexistent one against Amanda and Raffaele.

It's over, Amanda and Raffaele are innocent! Neither will see the inside of a prison cell ever again and Rudy has 8 more years to serve. It took the Italians a long time to get it right. But justice was served....well sort of. Mignini is still out.

 

[Machiavelli]

There are 7 billion people in the world and only a few dozen have interested themselves to any great depth in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

It doesn't seem particularly surprising to me that this highly self-selected group would have an over-representation of people attracted by the idea of the crazed, black sexual predator. It is drawing on the old lynching tradition that was so strong in the USA in the past. But here the sexualised black predator has not only violated the victim, he has also violated the Princess of Seattle, Amanda Knox, by refusing to take on full responsibility for the crime. This would explain why Friends of Amanda seem so overwhelmed by racial rage and incapable of the rational thought needed to consider other explanations.

I wouldn't put rejection of the refilled toilet concept in the same basket as the 6 uncanny coincidences, however. But it does explain why both Sollecito and Knox gave such vivid and unambiguous descriptions of the toilet being flushed.

If you pick the picture of the FoAs reunion at Vashon Island, you may notice as a matter of fact that there is no rapresentation of non-whites among them. To avoid statistical anomaly, you would need to have about 6 black people. Otherwise you would have to assume that one is a racial group.

But besides the way they perceive Guede, there is the absolute lack of sympathy they show for Lumumba, that should be could with their absolute prejudice against Italian people involved in the case like Mignini, Napoleoni, Stefanoni, Maresca etc., people about whom they don't know really anything.

They are certainly racist, but not just in the way of having prejudice related to race. They express a set of imperialistic values. They are political and cultural bullies. They are ethnocentric, they push prejudicial ideas against Italians, express self-righteousness, thickness and intolerance of cultural diversity and other peoples' sovreignity.

 

[Grinder]

If you pick the picture of the FoAs reunion at Vashon Island, you may notice as a matter of fact that there is no rapresentation of non-whites among them. To avoid statistical anomaly, you would need to have about 6 black people. Otherwise you would have to assume that one is a racial group.

And in Perugia if there were a gathering of friends of Patrick 99 would have to be other than black using your logic.

But besides the way they perceive Guede, there is the absolute lack of sympathy they show for Lumumba, that should be could with their absolute prejudice against Italian people involved in the case like Mignini, Napoleoni, Stefanoni, Maresca etc., people about whom they don't know really anything.

I feel for Patrick's abuse by the PLE but have disdain for his lack of courage in retracting his statements of treatment by the PLE. I think his statements about the crime clearly made with no knowledge and his lack of understanding of how the PLE got her to say "what they knew to be correct" is reprehensible. It has nothing to do with his skin color. I think Napoleoni is disgusting. I think Mignini is not honorable. I think your treatment of Hellmann has been unfair and prejudiced. Is that because he has a Germanic surname?

They are certainly racist, but not just in the way of having prejudice related to race. They express a set of imperialistic values. They are political and cultural bullies. They are ethnocentric, they push prejudicial ideas against Italians, express self-righteousness, thickness and intolerance of cultural diversity and other peoples' sovreignity.

Italy is a strange place. Where else in Europe do people call three year college graduates doctor? Italy is one of the leaders in ECHR violations. How many governments has Italy had since WWII? Where was fascism started? Where was the Mafia founded? What other country has a religious country inside its borders?

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

If you pick the picture of the FoAs reunion at Vashon Island, you may notice as a matter of fact that there is no rapresentation of non-whites among them. To avoid statistical anomaly, you would need to have about 6 black people. Otherwise you would have to assume that one is a racial group.

But besides the way they perceive Guede, there is the absolute lack of sympathy they show for Lumumba, that should be could with their absolute prejudice against Italian people involved in the case like Mignini, Napoleoni, Stefanoni, Maresca etc., people about whom they don't know really anything.

They are certainly racist, but not just in the way of having prejudice related to race. They express a set of imperialistic values. They are political and cultural bullies. They are ethnocentric, they push prejudicial ideas against Italians, express self-righteousness, thickness and intolerance of cultural diversity and other peoples' sovreignity.

I have to tell you Mach, you couldn't be further from the truth here. Most of those people are as liberal as you can get. I doubt there is a racist bone among them. Some of those people are Italian and/or of Italian descent. If anything, some might be scared to go to Italy, but no one hates Italy, let alone Italians. You are completely off-base here. Don't try to make this a racial issue. It is not and never has been.

ETA: Your statement about a picture of a group of people not having the correct statistical number of other races represented is laughable. Does that mean a picture of a group of black people that has no white people in it make it a racist group? Does that mean a picture of Italians gathered together in New York represents a racist group? C'mon, dude. You are much smarter than this kind of thinking.