An Eye on Israel

[The Atheist]

The Fool, have they gotten to the tattooing thing yet?

Oh, kaboom!

That went over many heads.

 

[The Fool]

[my bolding]

Let me tell you that you are predictable.

Let me reiterate...



If you think racial identification is a problem, what might you think of Astralian Aboriginals or NZ Maoris or any other indiginous race who go out of their way to celebrate being part of that RACE?

While it doesn't excite ME all that much, I appreciate that they have their reasons for wanting to self identify as being of a particular RACE and do not condemn them or regard them as thus being...racists...

People take certain pride in the history of their RACE. Why would you have a problem with that?

Take the Maori for example...They have the option of ticking a box on the enrollment form in regard to not only their ethnicity but also their tribe.

I assume since you have a problem with Israelis doing this, perhaps you might just have a problem with non Israelis doing this?

Do you live in a country where you are surrounded by enemies who would like nothing better than to see your RACE wiped off the face of the earth?

Perhaps if you did, you might think in a more productive and understanding manner...

I did notice that there are some citizens of some countries which are simply NOT allowed to enter Israel... do you have a problem with that as well?

Tell me...is there any RACE that you self identify with belong to?

I identify as Homo sapiens sapiens. Mainly because they are the only animals on this planet I can breed with.

I have no time for clowns who preach compulsory racial categorisation of supposedly equal citizens in a nation state.

So have fun taking pride in whatever "race" you believe you are.

Welcome to ignore.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Well, they're wrong. Obeying international law and getting the hell out of other people's lands should be a starting point.

Where do you draw the line though? That question was never fully resolved, and with Syria being right next door, maybe it's for the best that the west doesn't try to force an answer.

It's easy to be living in a comfortable western country, not worrying about those who swore to put every one of your family to the sword getting hold of chemical weapons. It's easy to condemn someone for defending itself against foes who want every jew in Israel put to the sword when you live in comfort in the west and never had to spend a day in uniform.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Well, they're wrong. Obeying international law and getting the hell out of other people's lands should be a starting point.

I take it that you are also all for returning all land taken from Mexico by force of arms as well then?

 

[The Fool]

I take it that you are also all for returning all land taken from Mexico by force of arms as well then?

Seriously? Do you not understand the difference?

Annexing the land and making the people on the land citizens. Occupying the land apparently indefinitely and leaving the occupants in stateless limbo.

Do you understand the difference?

 

[PhantomWolf]

Seriously? Do you not understand the difference?

Annexing the land and making the people on the land citizens. Occupying the land apparently indefinitely and leaving the occupants in stateless limbo.

Do you understand the difference?

You mean like Jordan did from 1947 to 1967?

 

[The Fool]

You mean like Jordan did from 1947 to 1967?

Are you not familiar with Jordan's annexation of the West Bank? If you are I would think that the difference between that and Israels ongoing occupation of the West Bank is obvious.

As I said, it included annexation and citizenship offered to all people who lived there.

Israel is not interested in more Arab citizens but are interested in the land.

 

[Navigator]

From what I can gather, Israel is not only interested in the land but is keen on having more citizens...of the type which are self controlled and positive contributors.

One thing often overlooked I think is that while the aims of Israel are peace, they have been living in a state of perpetual war in relation to the enemies which surround their state, and so there is a penalty exerted upon those enemies which also includes confiscation of land which is seen by many Israelis to be fine because of various beliefs to do with the land area which was occupied by Israel before the diaspora.

Israel is a unique case which cannot easily be compared with colonization of countries once solely occupied by the indigenous peoples.

Israelis are indigenous to that area....to the land they know of as "Israel".

The key to Israel being respected by the world is...
Relevant Video [1:40]

 

[asydhouse]

It's astonishing how ignorant this op is.

Plenty of Jewish Israelis are opposed to the illegal settlements where fanatical fundamentalists use this "prophecy" ******** to justify stealing Palestinian land, murdering Palestinians and generally brutalising them, including building their squats on hills above ancient villages and installing their sewage outlets so that their sewage runs downhill into the Palestinian villages, uprooting their olive trees, etc etc.

Israel is a terrorist state, in contravention of international law.

How do you people wearing rose-tinted spectacles explain the movement of Israeli citizens who are campaigning against the actions of their government in Palestine?

You are sitting in comfort, as someone above said, but ironically pushing the propaganda that Israel is the victim in that part of the world. Israelis on the ground there are telling you a different story. So is the UN. So is anyone honest enough to see the brutality unfolding today in this decades old occupation and oppression.

The OP is a disgusting piece of ignorance. (By the way, people actively trying to fulfil a prophecy is no indication that the prophecy is miraculously coming true out of the blue!)

Idiotic to see it as anything but political propaganda.

 

[Navigator]

The OP simply gave a publicized impression and called out for possible discussion on the claims regarding prophesy.

Personally I acknowledge that there are many Israelis who are against the occupation of lands that Palestinians have been living on and I would 'explain' this as pretty much the way democracy works in any democratic country...not every citizen agrees with governmental decisions.

It is noted asydhouse that you are one such personality who can condemn one side of the conflict whilst remaining silent about the other side. Perhaps you are one of those truthers who think with their emotions?

Why don't you start up a thread which can focus on the positives that Palestinians are involved with in relation to their people and Israelis and if you want to focus on brutalities of Israel, why not temper that with commentary on what brutalities those calling themselves Palestinians and enemies of Israel are also doing - if for no other reason than for equilibrium?

I personally don't condone such activities as uncontrolled sewage outlets into the environment and even mentioned how in my country bank/corporation owned farmers are doing just that with out fresh water - it seems very stupid and third worldish just on account of the risks involved with health concerns - viruses tend not to recognize boarders and races...so it would be a counter-productive action. Do you have links to this information?

Another thing I have noticed is that a lot of your kind of protest comes from people brought up in countries where Christianity has been the dominant religion and so judgement tends to be based on those ideals. Israel does not tend to forgive Her enemies until such a time as their enemies prove themselves to be friends...they will bring the full force of their might down on the heads of their enemies and pay an eye for and eye on the offenders...not to say that they won't extend the hand of friendship but they are specifically serious about their motto "Never Again" and are not shy of using deadly force when necessary.

if one is to focus solely on the bad things the world is doing, one will see no hope in the future...this thread is not really an invitation for such minded people to display their unbalanced opinions in.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

It's astonishing how ignorant this op is.

Plenty of Jewish Israelis are opposed to the illegal settlements where fanatical fundamentalists use this "prophecy" ******** to justify stealing Palestinian land, murdering Palestinians and generally brutalising them, including building their squats on hills above ancient villages and installing their sewage outlets so that their sewage runs downhill into the Palestinian villages, uprooting their olive trees, etc etc.

Israel is a terrorist state, in contravention of international law.

How do you people wearing rose-tinted spectacles explain the movement of Israeli citizens who are campaigning against the actions of their government in Palestine?

You are sitting in comfort, as someone above said, but ironically pushing the propaganda that Israel is the victim in that part of the world. Israelis on the ground there are telling you a different story. So is the UN. So is anyone honest enough to see the brutality unfolding today in this decades old occupation and oppression.

The OP is a disgusting piece of ignorance. (By the way, people actively trying to fulfil a prophecy is no indication that the prophecy is miraculously coming true out of the blue!)

Idiotic to see it as anything but political propaganda.

Compared to Bashir Al Assad, Abu Bakir Al Baghdadi and Saddam Hussein, Israeli is an outright saint. Anybody else in their position would have saturated Gaza and the West Bank in Nerve Gas.

 

[logger]

It is noted asydhouse that you are one such personality who can condemn one side of the conflict whilst remaining silent about the other side. Perhaps you are one of those truthers who think with their emotions?

 

[Navigator]

Compared to Bashir Al Assad, Abu Bakir Al Baghdadi and Saddam Hussein, Israeli is an outright saint. Anybody else in their position would have saturated Gaza and the West Bank in Nerve Gas.

Very good point.

However, if push comes to shove and Her enemies get access to nukes and use those on Israel She will annihilate said enemies without hesitation....

The Samson Option.

But the truth is, Israel does not want to go down that path...ever...

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Very good point.

However, if push comes to shove and Her enemies get access to nukes and use those on Israel She will annihilate said enemies without hesitation....

The Samson Option.

But the truth is, Israel does not want to go down that path...ever...

With Syria next door, I'm sure the one thing keeping up Israeli Intelligence is the possibility of Hamas getting their hands on chemical weapons. Of course, that would probably be the end of the peace process for a generation.

 

[Tolls]

The practice has not stopped. Show me an Israeli identity card and I will tell you if the owner is a Jew or not.

Assuming you mean the presence or not of a Hebrew DOB, then you need to read the wiki posted above. You cannot guarantee that someone without a Hebrew DOB is not a Jew. To determine how likely that is then you would need to dig out some stats.

 

[The Fool]

Assuming you mean the presence or not of a Hebrew DOB, then you need to read the wiki posted above. You cannot guarantee that someone without a Hebrew DOB is not a Jew. To determine how likely that is then you would need to dig out some stats.

I'll take my chances with the assumption. A Jewish Israeli may go through some process to apply to the government to have the Hebrew date removed from their ID Card. Possibly they have a desire to be treated like an Arab when they have to present their card?

 

[Navigator]

There seems to be an imbalanced misconception from some of the posters contributing to this thread regarding the State of Israel and its agenda in relation to Palestinians. Here is a video from the Israeli point of view in relation to Palestine.

[4:57] (Published: March 3, 2016) What is fact and what is fiction?

 

[asydhouse]

The OP simply gave a publicized impression and called out for possible discussion on the claims regarding prophesy.

It was a piece of propaganda presenting Israel as a paragon of virtue, exhorting the world to follow her example. Your assumption that a prophecy was being fulfilled, and its implication of some sort of supernatural agency in that, was nothing short of a misrepresentation of the political forces that have manipulated circumstances to conjure a self-fulfilling "prophecy" out of expediency.

Personally I acknowledge that there are many Israelis who are against the occupation of lands that Palestinians have been living on and I would 'explain' this as pretty much the way democracy works in any democratic country...not every citizen agrees with governmental decisions.

One wonders how quickly the accusation of anti-semitism would have been a facile resort had I not mentioned the fact that not every Jew is as enamoured of your rosy-spectacled view of the state of Israel as you apparently are.

It is noted asydhouse that you are one such personality who can condemn one side of the conflict whilst remaining silent about the other side. Perhaps you are one of those truthers who think with their emotions?

Compassion is not an emotion that clouds the mind. My only other emotion is mild disgust for the false picture you presented in your propaganda.

Why don't you start up a thread which can focus on the positives that Palestinians are involved with in relation to their people and Israelis and if you want to focus on brutalities of Israel, why not temper that with commentary on what brutalities those calling themselves Palestinians and enemies of Israel are also doing - if for no other reason than for equilibrium?

There is no equivalence: the illegal occupation of Palestinian lands (as declared by the UN) and the oppression of the people with regular armed patrols of soldiers in their streets, and the massive bombardment of Gaza resulting in wholesale destruction and hundreds of deaths of women and children, and the continued blockade of medicines and materials for reconstruction which followed, are criminal actions sanctioned by the state you paint in glowing terms of admiration.

I personally don't condone such activities as uncontrolled sewage outlets into the environment and even mentioned how in my country bank/corporation owned farmers are doing just that with out fresh water - it seems very stupid and third worldish just on account of the risks involved with health concerns - viruses tend not to recognize boarders and races...so it would be a counter-productive action. Do you have links to this information?

The sewage outlets are not simply uncontrolled, they are deliberately set up to pollute the villages in the valley immediately below the illegal settlements.

My wife has been to Palestine with a group of volunteers who help to protect the olive farmers from attack by the illegal settlers while the farmers are harvesting the olives from their trees during the one or two weeks each year they are allowed access to their trees. The presence of Western people discourages the fanatical settlers from physically attacking the farmers during the harvest, which otherwise occurs randomly and often. Terrorism, pure and simple.

The organisation she went with is called International Solidarity Movement, and it was started by Jewish Israelis in partnership with Palestinians. I think it was in their literature that I learned of the use of sewage as a tactic by the illegal settlers to try to drive the Palestinians out of their lands.

Another thing I have noticed is that a lot of your kind of protest comes from people brought up in countries where Christianity has been the dominant religion and so judgement tends to be based on those ideals. Israel does not tend to forgive Her enemies until such a time as their enemies prove themselves to be friends...they will bring the full force of their might down on the heads of their enemies and pay an eye for and eye on the offenders...not to say that they won't extend the hand of friendship but they are specifically serious about their motto "Never Again" and are not shy of using deadly force when necessary.

https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/toolkit#fact-sheets


According to these Jews: "We are Jews and allies speaking out against injustice, according to Jewish values and following in the footsteps of Jewish social justice traditions."

You would do well to acquaint yourself with the information they have posted in the various fact sheets about the situation on that website.

if one is to focus solely on the bad things the world is doing, one will see no hope in the future...this thread is not really an invitation for such minded people to display their unbalanced opinions in.

I'm sure the Palestinians would love to have the luxury of feeling positive and thinking happy thoughts about their relationship with Israel.

 

[asydhouse]

Excuse me, I've belatedly realised that I conflated your second post in this thread with the OP, so when I referred to the OP I was really meaning your uncritical statements of support for the Israeli state, which are primarily in that second post.

My bad.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

It's easy to criticise Israel when you are a sheltered westerner who never had to spend a day in uniform and live next door to Fascist Dictators who give zero compunction to using chemical weapons on their own people (and interestingly enough, the ISM base considers Assad to be a hero of socialism). Face it, compared to the likes of Assad, Saddam and the Egyptian Junta, Israel is a beacon of mercy. As for "massive bombardment", I think I heard Bashir Al-Assad laugh at the suggestion that Gaza is subject to "massive bombardment"