Hillary Clinton is Done

[The Don]

False Dichotomy.

How so ?

She either releases them or does not.

 

[The Big Dog]

How so ?

She either releases them or does not.

That is not what you wrote.

 

[The Don]

That is not what you wrote.

It would be a false dichotomy if there was an excluded middle. In this case there is no excluded middle, she either releases the transcripts or not.

Now, you might disagree with my assessment of their motives but that's not a false dichotomy.

 

[sunmaster14]

It would be a false dichotomy if there was an excluded middle. In this case there is no excluded middle, she either releases the transcripts or not.

Now, you might disagree with my assessment of their motives but that's not a false dichotomy.

You don't think some of the people who are asking are undecided, or maybe even current supporters? Some might even be senior party leaders who expect transcripts will be leaked eventually and think it is better for it to come out now, before she has locked up the nomination.

 

[The Big Dog]

Simple, it's a win-win for the people doing the asking.

If she doesn't release the transcripts then she is evasive, aloof and doesn't care about the electorate. If she does then she's weak and gives her opponents all kinds of material to go through with a fine-toothed comb to look for any contractions and/or unpopular messages.

It would be a false dichotomy if there was an excluded middle. In this case there is no excluded middle, she either releases the transcripts or not.

Now, you might disagree with my assessment of their motives but that's not a false dichotomy.

The hilighted parts are the false dichotomy.

 

[theprestige]

I continue to not understand why people are calling on Clinton to release transcripts of her speeches when she is contractually barred from doing so in most cases.

If this is truly the obstacle (evidence, jhunter1163?) in most cases, then it seems like there is an obvious good faith solution:

First, "most" is not "all". In those cases where this is not the obstacle, she could release the transcripts. Second, in those cases where it is the obstacle, she could call on whoever controls the release to release them. Even if they do not do so, she at least is on the side of transparency.

And why shouldn't she be on the side of transparency? Why shouldn't she be interested in presenting to the nation as a whole the same ideas and principles she presents to the 1%?

These aren't state secrets. There's no risk to national security. Compared to the kind of confidential information she regularly handled via her email server, these speeches should be pretty tame. Why do you defend her stonewalling on this?

 

[sunmaster14]

The hilighted parts are the false dichotomy.

Not really a false dichotomy there. More like "all of the above."

 

[Dr. Keith]

This speech issue is giving me flashbacks of 47%. Do you thinks she would have said something that stupid?

 

[The Don]

The hilighted parts are the false dichotomy.

Nope, it's my assessment of how her response to the binary position will be taken by those making the request. For the record it's based on the "birthers" behaviour over Obama's birth certificate.

 

[The Big Dog]

Nope, it's my assessment of how her response to the binary position will be taken by those making the request. For the record it's based on the "birthers" behaviour over Obama's birth certificate.

I don't think that Bernie Sanders was a birther (although plenty of Hillary's supporters were).

Hillary said she would release it if "everyone" else did. Sanders met her school yard challenge and as such the ball is firmly in Hillary's camp.

It is hard to imagine that people are trying to make Bernie Sanders the bad guy when Hillary is out there pandering to the 99% while cashing checks from the 1%

 

[theprestige]

This speech issue is giving me flashbacks of 47%. Do you thinks she would have said something that stupid?

Oh I'm sure the transcripts would provide plenty of grist for the mill. Some of it justified, even.

And I think there's a perfectly cromulent justification for not releasing the transcripts. A justification that isn't even very cynical at all. What amuses me is that instead of offering that justification here, her supporters are bending over backwards to appear as disingenuous and cynical as possible about the whole thing.

I'm also amused by the lack of curiosity. What does a candidate like Hillary say to the 1%, behind closed doors? Is it simply the same message, packaged for a different audience? Or is it something more problematic? Aren't you at least a little curious yourself?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I don't think that Bernie Sanders was a birther (although plenty of Hillary's supporters were).

Hillary said she would release it if "everyone" else did. Sanders met her school yard challenge and as such the ball is firmly in Hillary's camp.

It is hard to imagine that people are trying to make Bernie Sanders the bad guy when Hillary is out there pandering to the 99% while cashing checks from the 1%

Not that this issue matters in the least to anyone but HDS sufferers, but ...

Please quote her, in context, where Hillary said she would release it if "everyone" else did, and defend your claim that "everyone" else consists only of Bernie Sanders.

 

[The Big Dog]

Not that this issue matters in the least to anyone but HDS sufferers, but ...

Please quote her, in context, where Hillary said she would release it if "everyone" else did, and defend your claim that "everyone" else consists only of Bernie Sanders.

Are you accusing Bernie Sanders of suffering from HDS? Of course you are, nothing like poisoning the well...

“Let everybody who's ever given a speech to any private group under any circumstances release them—we'll all release them at the same time."

H. Clinton

Are you really suggesting the Hillary's definition of everyone includes people other than those running in the Democratic Primary? Wow, that would be sleazy and disingenuous even for someone as notoriously sleazy and disingenuous as Hillary, that she unilaterally imposed an unlikely condition as a ready made excuse to refuse to release them as the Sanders campaign has requested?

Oh dear, Shillaries gonna shill.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Are you accusing Bernie Sanders of suffering from HDS? Of course you are, nothing like poisoning the well...

“Let everybody who's ever given a speech to any private group under any circumstances release them—we'll all release them at the same time."

H. Clinton

Are you really suggesting the Hillary's definition of everyone includes people other than those running in the Democratic Primary?

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm asking you to defend your claim that "everyone" else consists only of Bernie Sanders.

I believe that means you are doing the suggesting.

Wow, that would be sleazy and disingenuous even for someone as notoriously sleazy and disingenuous as Hillary, that she unilaterally imposed an unlikely condition as a ready made excuse to refuse to release them as the Sanders campaign has requested?

Oh dear, Shillaries gonna shill.

So you have nothing. That's what I thought.

 

[The Big Dog]

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm asking you to defend your claim that "everyone" else consists only of Bernie Sanders.

I believe that means you are doing the suggesting.

So you have nothing. That's what I thought.

eta: “I’m happy to release anything I have when everybody else does the same, because every other candidate in this race has given speeches to private groups, including Senator Sanders.”

There ya go!

although I do enjoy the suggestion that Hillary is indeed a scheming disingenuous scumbag who places artificial conditions on her production of transcripts that are so transparent that only her most fervent supporters would refuse to see through them.

 

[wareyin]

eta: “I’m happy to release anything I have when everybody else does the same, because every other candidate in this race has given speeches to private groups, including Senator Sanders.”

There ya go!

although I do enjoy the suggestion that Hillary is indeed a scheming disingenuous scumbag who places artificial conditions on her production of transcripts that are so transparent that only her most fervent supporters would refuse to see through them.

Has Trump released any transcripts of speeches? Has Rubio, or Carson, or Kasich, or Cruz? Or are they somehow not candidates?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

eta: “I’m happy to release anything I have when everybody else does the same, because every other candidate in this race has given speeches to private groups, including Senator Sanders.”

There ya go!

although I do enjoy the suggestion that Hillary is indeed a scheming disingenuous scumbag who places artificial conditions on her production of transcripts that are so transparent that only her most fervent supporters would refuse to see through them.

If you understand english, you will note that "Sanders" is mentioned as a member every other candidate, implying this applies to all the presidential candidates.

But you keep pretending it just means Sanders, mmm kk ?

 

[The Big Dog]

If you understand english, you will note that "Sanders" is mentioned as a member every other candidate, implying this applies to all the presidential candidates.

But you keep pretending it just means Sanders, mmm kk ?

"IN THIS RACE."

Are people really deluded enough to think that Hillary has set these grossly unreasonable conditions in good faith?

“Sen. Sanders accepts Clinton’s challenge,” said Sanders spokesman Michael Briggs. “That’s easy. … So now we hope Secretary Clinton keeps her word and releases the transcripts of her speeches. We hope she agrees that the American people deserve to know what she told Wall Street behind closed doors.”

 

[sunmaster14]

Has Trump released any transcripts of speeches? Has Rubio, or Carson, or Kasich, or Cruz? Or are they somehow not candidates?

This kind of semantic gamesmanship is almost as ridiculous as the claim that Hillary Clinton's use of her private server is being investigated, but not Hillary Clinton herself.

 

[wareyin]

This kind of semantic gamesmanship is almost as ridiculous as the claim that Hillary Clinton's use of her private server is being investigated, but not Hillary Clinton herself.

As pointed out by TheL8Elvis, in context, Clinton clearly states every candidate including Sanders. It is certainly semantic gamesmanship to pretend then, that Sanders is the only other candidate.

No matter, no one is even pretending that this is a serious issue, just another fishing expedition.