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Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Reading one side I may (hopefully) have missed much but here is a snip from the last time the ticket issue was brought up here:

Which of the following seems more likely:

1. Rudy Guede, art afficiando, in May 2007 travelled to Rome to see a Marc Chagall exhibit, kept the ticket stub as a souvenir, and somehow accidentally got blood on it.

OR

2. Rudy Guede, murderer, killed Meredith Kercher, broke in downstairs where he washed up, stole a pair of pants that had a Chagall exhibit ticket in the pocket, and got blood on the ticket when he put his cut hand in the pocket.
 
Grinder said:
Reading one side I may (hopefully) have missed much but here is a snip from the last time the ticket issue was brought up here:

Which of the following seems more likely:

1. Rudy Guede, art afficiando, in May 2007 travelled to Rome to see a Marc Chagall exhibit, kept the ticket stub as a souvenir, and somehow accidentally got blood on it.

OR

2. Rudy Guede, murderer, killed Meredith Kercher, broke in downstairs where he washed up, stole a pair of pants that had a Chagall exhibit ticket in the pocket, and got blood on the ticket when he put his cut hand in the pocket.
Click to expand...

As Rhett Butler says "Frankly, my dear".

This is another red herring. Even a homicidal burglar or a janitor or a Fortune 1000 CEO may or may not appreciate art. Even I went to a Turner Exhibition in San Francisco 4 months ago.
 
The downstairs crime theory solves some problems while introducing others so I'm not sure what to make of it.

ATM I have this:

Rudy is home by 21:30, he went out the front by the basketball courts:

"I left the house in shock. "
"There were a lot of people in the street."

("-The CCTV captured 37 people across the street from the cottage between 9pm and 10pm.")

"There were some guys still playing basketball even though it was dark.
I arrived back home, not knowing what to do. I remember having taken off my pants. I changed only those"

I think he cleaned up a bit in the sink like he says. Then he poked around Meredith's UK phone. This accounts for the ~22:00 activity.

Next I think he loaded up all the evidence from the murder, including his bloody pants and possibly shoes, plus the two phones into a book bag or something, probably the bloody clothes in a plastic bag first. He heads out of the city to dump all the evidence. Along the way at 22:13 the phone beeps, he takes it out of the bag and cancels the download, at this point he is out of the city walking deeper into the northern rural area.

He then stops and dumps the bloody knife and clothes, and possibly also the debit card, realizing a dead girls card isn't going to be of much use to him. He keeps the phones thinking he can take out the sims and sell the phones. I don't know about the Nokia but the cover on the Sony requires a bunch of small clips pushed back to be removed which is probably something not easily done in the dark with an unfamiliar phone.

He walks back, in the meantime the police have responded to a 22:30 bomb threat and are pulled into Lana's driveway.

As Rudy approaches the driveway he spots the police car, he panics and wonders if the police have discovered the murder and are asking residents if they've seen anything, he quickly gets out the phones and dumps them into the bushy drop off the road to the right.
 
bagels said:
The downstairs crime theory solves some problems while introducing others so I'm not sure what to make of it.

ATM I have this:

Rudy is home by 21:30, he went out the front by the basketball courts:

"I left the house in shock. "
"There were a lot of people in the street."

("-The CCTV captured 37 people across the street from the cottage between 9pm and 10pm.")

"There were some guys still playing basketball even though it was dark.
I arrived back home, not knowing what to do. I remember having taken off my pants. I changed only those"

I think he cleaned up a bit in the sink like he says. Then he poked around Meredith's UK phone. This accounts for the ~22:00 activity.

Next I think he loaded up all the evidence from the murder, including his bloody pants and possibly shoes, plus the two phones into a book bag or something, probably the bloody clothes in a plastic bag first. He heads out of the city to dump all the evidence. Along the way at 22:13 the phone beeps, he takes it out of the bag and cancels the download, at this point he is out of the city walking deeper into the northern rural area.

He then stops and dumps the bloody knife and clothes, and possibly also the debit card, realizing a dead girls card isn't going to be of much use to him. He keeps the phones thinking he can take out the sims and sell the phones. I don't know about the Nokia but the cover on the Sony requires a bunch of small clips pushed back to be removed which is probably something not easily done in the dark with an unfamiliar phone.

He walks back, in the meantime the police have responded to a 22:30 bomb threat and are pulled into Lana's driveway.

As Rudy approaches the driveway he spots the police car, he panics and wonders if the police have discovered the murder and are asking residents if they've seen anything, he quickly gets out the phones and dumps them into the bushy drop off the road to the right.
Click to expand...

That's a lot of activity in a short amount of time, but not out of the realm of possibilities.
 
acbytesla said:
That's a lot of activity in a short amount of time, but not out of the realm of possibilities.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's quite right, it's still contrived. IMO the right theory that is the truth should click into a eureka moment. I'm determined :mad:

It seems natural to put the phone dump on the way back from the cottage, but this puts the exit from the cottage extremely late.

It seems unnatural to put Rudy walking back towards the crime scene for his evidence dump even if he doesn't actually go there.

He dumps the phones separately from the knife, which he surely dumped that night.

It's hard to put together.
 
bagels said:
I don't think it's quite right, it's still contrived. IMO the right theory that is the truth should click into a eureka moment. I'm determined :mad:

It seems natural to put the phone dump on the way back from the cottage, but this puts the exit from the cottage extremely late.
It seems unnatural to put Rudy walking back towards the crime scene for his evidence dump even if he doesn't actually go there.

He dumps the phones separately from the knife, which he surely dumped that night.

It's hard to put together.
Click to expand...

I've always thought Rudy left the cottage down into the ravine. He's in a panic, he's in shock. He doesn't know what to do and he's afraid of being seen anywhere near the cottage. In fact, I bet he doesn't want to be seen at all. He's not thinking straight He walks aimlessly in the woods for a while. After a while, he decides he has to get back to his apartment, but he doesn't want to be seen by anyone so he carefully makes his way back. toward the city. He could take Via del Bulagaio and then on to Via Sperandio. But there are all kinds of paths around there so he could have avoided the roads entirely.

But this is all a wild guess. There some logic to it...but it's just another theory, you could be right or we both could be wrong. We will never know.
 
I'm starting to think the 10:13 call is a red herring. I think it happened inside Rudy's house. On google maps I can clearly see Rudy's house, the last house on the very end of the street, is taller than the city gates, overlooking the lower San Angelo park which antenna 30064 serves "99 times out of 100"

Sorry Tesla, only testing inside Rudy's could now completely convince me otherwise :(
 
bagels IIRC the police were at Lana's around 10:15 and some speculated that Rudi seeing them there tossed the phones.

Rudi also said he ditched the shoes in Germany and I don't see why he's lie about that as he admitted they were his shoes that left the prints.

We know he washed his pants and one foot in the bathroom. He said he tied a sweatshirt around his waist to hide the pants . He could also have waited for the pant legs to dry off.
 
Yeah it's hard to put it all together. I think it's arrogant of me to assume I can accomplish what nobody else has in eight years, a fully coherent timeline of Guede's every action. I think I'm gonna take a break from worrying about that aspect of the case for now. I'm sure Vixen will be along shortly to get things going again with something far more interesting :)
 
bagels said:
I'm starting to think the 10:13 call is a red herring. I think it happened inside Rudy's house. On google maps I can clearly see Rudy's house, the last house on the very end of the street, is taller than the city gates, overlooking the lower San Angelo park which antenna 30064 serves "99 times out of 100"

Sorry Tesla, only testing inside Rudy's could now completely convince me otherwise :(
Click to expand...

That's OK. You have to explore this in your own way Bagels. I respect that.

But I still find it highly improbable if not impossible. For the following reasons. Let's say you're right. Rudy's apartment is higher than the city wall and has line of sight to the distant Wind cell. No thick stone wall obstructs it. But that also means nothing is obstructing the signal from other cells either. Specifically the Lupatelli antenna which is even closer to his apartment than it is to the cottage. Probably less than a 100 meters. Twenty times closer than the Wind tower. Without its signal being obstructed it would easily be the best server and also close is the Via Beradi antenna. The wall is key either way.
 
bagels - from Lana's testimony:

Public Prosecutor. - At what time?
Witness. - Between nine and a half and ten in the evening. It was from a man, a
stranger, who warned me not to go pee to the WC because there was a bomb and it
could go off. At which moment I called the police, just in case, because... and the police
arrived, in ten minutes, with one, with two agents, and we searched the place, around
the house, the garden and all the places around the house.
Public Prosecutor. - Excuse me, when did they arrive?
Witness. - The police? Ten minutes after I called. That makes it around 10; I cannot
recall exactly but between ten and ten past ten. Before leaving, the police told us to go
to the postal police the next day to report this strange call we had received. Next
morning, while we were getting ready, while I was getting ready, my son found a mobile
phone.
Public Prosecutor. - At what time?
Witness. - About nine, in the garden; he brought it into the house and I thought that,
perhaps, one of the police agents had accidentally lost it or dropped it and we called the
Questura, who told us to bring it straight to the postal police and so we did that together
with my {159} husband. We went to the postal police... we arrived about a quarter past
ten, he had to wait a little because there were people ahead of us and then I gave the
mobile phone to doctor Bartolozzi and started to recount what happened.
 
Grinder said:
bagels - from Lana's testimony:

Public Prosecutor. - At what time?
Witness. - Between nine and a half and ten in the evening. It was from a man, a
stranger, who warned me not to go pee to the WC because there was a bomb and it
could go off. At which moment I called the police, just in case, because... and the police
arrived, in ten minutes, with one, with two agents, and we searched the place, around
the house, the garden and all the places around the house.
Public Prosecutor. - Excuse me, when did they arrive?
Witness. - The police? Ten minutes after I called. That makes it around 10; I cannot
recall exactly but between ten and ten past ten. Before leaving, the police told us to go
to the postal police the next day to report this strange call we had received. Next
morning, while we were getting ready, while I was getting ready, my son found a mobile
phone.
Public Prosecutor. - At what time?
Witness. - About nine, in the garden; he brought it into the house and I thought that,
perhaps, one of the police agents had accidentally lost it or dropped it and we called the
Questura, who told us to bring it straight to the postal police and so we did that together
with my {159} husband. We went to the postal police... we arrived about a quarter past
ten, he had to wait a little because there were people ahead of us and then I gave the
mobile phone to doctor Bartolozzi and started to recount what happened.
Click to expand...

I think the bomb hoax is entirely unconnected to the murder.Just a crazy coincidence. It may have had an impact on where and when he tossed thed pbones but nothing beyond that. Did the police track the number that made the bomb hoax? That's a pretty serious prank call. I cant imagine them not following up on that.
 
There aren't enough reference points to logically triangulate the precise series of events IMO.

For example there's two equally plausible reasons why he specifically dumps the phones in Lana's garden of all places.

1. He sees the police car in the driveway while walking back to his house

2. If Rudy takes the gate out the city behind his house and walks down the path through the park to the street to toss the phones into the forest, Lana's garden happens to be the first available spot to dump the phones across the street. A variation on this is Lana's garden is the last available spot to dump the phones off the street before turning up into the park to walk through the gate home.


I've stopped trying to figure it out. Guede himself probably couldn't even remember if he wanted to, which he doesn't.
 
acbytesla said:
I think the bomb hoax is entirely unconnected to the murder.Just a crazy coincidence. It may have had an impact on where and when he tossed thed pbones but nothing beyond that. Did the police track the number that made the bomb hoax? That's a pretty serious prank call. I cant imagine them not following up on that.
Click to expand...
Yes they tracked the call. I posted this because bagels was speculating about when the phones were dumped and since the police were at Lana's around the time of the 10:13 phone activity it might aid him.
 
Grinder said:
Yes they tracked the call. I posted this because bagels was speculating about when the phones were dumped and since the police were at Lana's around the time of the 10:13 phone activity it might aid him.
Click to expand...

So what did they find?
 
bagels said:
There aren't enough reference points to logically triangulate the precise series of events IMO.

For example there's two equally plausible reasons why he specifically dumps the phones in Lana's garden of all places.

1. He sees the police car in the driveway while walking back to his house

2. If Rudy takes the gate out the city behind his house and walks down the path through the park to the street to toss the phones into the forest, Lana's garden happens to be the first available spot to dump the phones across the street. A variation on this is Lana's garden is the last available spot to dump the phones off the street before turning up into the park to walk through the gate home.


I've stopped trying to figure it out. Guede himself probably couldn't even remember if he wanted to, which he doesn't.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with guessing. But I think we all get to the point where you're at right now.
 
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