Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[acbytesla]

Dr. Luca Lalli is referred to as a forensic pathologist in court records.

In the world of the PIP, highly qualified doctors and criminal prosecutors are all bent and members of PIP have to do their job instead.

You act as if all this data isn't available to everyone. You act as if the defense didn't have access to Doctors and other evidence. Time and again, the prosecution presented so called expert witnesses who twisted the evidence or ignored empirical wisdom. If it wasn't so sad it would be a joke.

 

[Mike1711]

A female perp, or at least one with feminine sized hands, had already tried to strangle Mez, through the stab wound.

I suspect you don't understand what a tourniquet is:

"A tourniquet is a constricting or compressing device, specifically a bandage, used to control venous and arterial circulation to an extremity for a period of time."

A tourniquet in this case is the towel pressed near the neck to staunch the bleeding. You do know whom Massei blamed for the mortal stab wound? It wasn't Rudy.

....in this case the extremity is the persons head.m

 

[Mike1711]

I have worked in insolvency practice and I can assure you a Statement of Affairs can be constructed from incomplete records.

Fact is, Amanda was haemorrhaging money, leading to speculation she had a cocaine habit. (= police speculation, not mine.)

How does any of this prove an unaccounted for €300.00? It doesn't and your argument is junk.

 

[Mike1711]

LOL I'm "scientifically illiterate"...

Edited by Agatha: 

Removed breach of rule 0 and rule 12

 

[Mike1711]

Grinder, you have failed to factor in:

1. A possible later meal, as indicated by the additional wine, vegetables (still fibre) and mushrooms.
2. The effect of extreme fear. Imagine you step inside your home and are confronted by knife wielding yobs in an altered state of consciousness and you know you are alone with them.

3. The fact that there are many factors to take into consideration in assessing time of death.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...nssge-method-for-estimating-time-of-death.pdf

4. Not even Lalli, a forensic pathologist, could pinpoint an exact time.

5. In addition, the body was in an advanced state of rigor mortis, thanks to the perps delaying discovery for over sixteen hours. The stomach contents would be dehydrated and impacted.

It is rubbish for an armchair biologist to claim they know the victim's TOD, when the expert forensic pathologists had trouble fixing a time, because of the late examination.

Well then where was the earlier meal? The pizza. Where, oh where was the pizza in the intestinal system? It couldn't be found.

So the conclusion can only be....?

...or did MK have...

A) The worlds slowest digestive system
B) the worlds fastest digestive system

 

[Grinder]

Dr. Luca Lalli is referred to as a forensic pathologist in court records.

In the world of the PIP, highly qualified doctors and criminal prosecutors are all bent and members of PIP have to do their job instead.

Just asked
They call Steffi Dr. but she isn't one by first world standards.

ETA- Dottore / Dottoressa – dott. (Doctor; in Italy it is used for any person holding a university degree. This usage often confuses foreigners.)
University degrees:
Dottore – dott. (all people holding a laurea degree). The laurea was previously the only academic degree given by Italian Universities. With the Riforma Universitaria, the Italian system has moved closer to conformity with the rest of Europe and North America. Laurea may now refer to a three-year degree (the laurea triennale) or to a laurea magistrale, which requires two additional years of study. The former confers the title dottore; holders of the latter receive the academic title dottore magistrale. Outside of Italy, however, it is inappropriate for the holder of a new laurea to use the title "Doctor."

I.e. only in the third world Italy do people get the title of doctor after 3 years of college

ETA2 - Lalli apparently has only a 3 year degree as he is referred to as Dr. and is referred as follows - Luca Lalli, born in Fabriano, April 23, 1963,
specialist in forensic medicine, domiciled at the
Section of Legal Medicine of the University
Perugia.

 

[Grinder]

Do drinks/fluids stay in your stomach that long? Seems there is so little for your stomach to do in breaking it down.

A less succinct response than my first

DIGESTION TIME OF VARIOUS FOODS: (The time spent in the stomach before emptying).

Water: when stomach is empty, leaves immediately and goes into intestines.

Juices: Fruit vegetables, vegetable broth - 15 to 20 minutes.

Semi-liquid: Blended salad, vegetables or fruits) - 20 to 30 min.

 

[acbytesla]

A less succinct response than my first

DIGESTION TIME OF VARIOUS FOODS: (The time spent in the stomach before emptying).

Water: when stomach is empty, leaves immediately and goes into intestines.

Juices: Fruit vegetables, vegetable broth - 15 to 20 minutes.

Semi-liquid: Blended salad, vegetables or fruits) - 20 to 30 min.

So basically,what she drank doesn't really figure into the calculation.

 

[Grinder]

So basically,what she drank doesn't really figure into the calculation.

Depends when and what she drank. IIRC alcohol can slow the process. For most people eating a meal as described the BEGINNING of chyme leaving the system would be within an hour. Three hours encompasses all but those with some issue for the meal she ate. The stomach will start with the easiest to digest food so the bread of a hard cheese sandwich will be digested (turned to chyme) while still working on the cheese.

 

[acbytesla]

Depends when and what she drank. IIRC alcohol can slow the process. For most people eating a meal as described the BEGINNING of chyme leaving the system would be within an hour. Three hours encompasses all but those with some issue for the meal she ate. The stomach will start with the easiest to digest food so the bread of a hard cheese sandwich will be digested (turned to chyme) while still working on the cheese.

Here's the thing from my view. Fluids aid in digestion and from what I'm reading your body supplies them if you don't. Seems as if you're not killed within 30 minutes tops. It sounds as if it would be impossible to determine what you might have drank.. Although they could still detect alcohol in your bloodstream.

Or am I missing something?

 

[Grinder]

Here's the thing from my view. Fluids aid in digestion and from what I'm reading your body supplies them if you don't. Seems as if you're not killed within 30 minutes tops. It sounds as if it would be impossible to determine what you might have drank.. Although they could still detect alcohol in your bloodstream.

Or am I missing something?

Yes the alcohol knowledge came from two tests one done by Lalli and the other done by a second lab.

I would guess that red wine could be determined by color and some other liquids such as orange juice might be seen.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes the alcohol knowledge came from two tests one done by Lalli and the other done by a second lab.

I would guess that red wine could be determined by color and some other liquids such as orange juice might be seen.

I have doubts on that last line...but maybe.

 

[bagels]

New theory: Meredith doesn't arrive home until much later, possibly 21:40.

 

[bagels]

Wait, I think I just figured it out. Meredith went downstairs first to water the plants and feed the cat. Those are the noises Rudy heard from the toilet. She was down there for 10-20 minutes while Rudy hid out upstairs trying to be as quiet as possible. He didn't think it was one of the girls because it was downstairs, so he didn't expect anyone to come upstairs.

 

[Grinder]

Wait, I think I just figured it out. Meredith went downstairs first to water the plants and feed the cat. Those are the noises Rudy heard from the toilet. She was down there for 10-20 minutes while Rudy hid out upstairs trying to be as quiet as possible. He didn't think it was one of the girls because it was downstairs, so he didn't expect anyone to come upstairs.

That makes sense. I still think the less than fully trained Lalli blew the duodenum analysis, which allows for the later death but still not past 10 pm

If he said what Massei wrote he clearly doesn't understand the digestive process:

Dr. Lalli also took into consideration the state of digestion. He stated that solids are ingested into the stomach and are not able to reach the pyloric sphincter until they are reduced to a semi-fluid or fluid consistency; the emptying of the stomach then begins to occur when some of the contents have become sufficiently fluid to reach the pylorus, which happens the third or fourth hour after eating. This is when one can find food material at the level of the duodenum (page 63 of the Lalli report).​

For the vast majority it begins within an hour. Idiot.

 

[bagels]

I wonder if the boys downstairs had wine or mushrooms

 

[Grinder]

I wonder if the boys downstairs had wine or mushrooms

In all of Perugia only Raf had those mushrooms as they were imported from Bari.

 

[bagels]

Ok looking over some of the crime scene details again I'm now confused about Meredith's door. There doesn't appear to be any open bolt as I originally assumed. It looks like there's just an upper latch. Is it certain this could only be locked with a key? It's very common for doors to have latches that will twist open from the inside but wont from the outside. I assume a key would open the bolt and free the handle. What's the proof that Meredith's door needed a key to lock?

 

[Grinder]

Ok looking over some of the crime scene details again I'm now confused about Meredith's door. There doesn't appear to be any open bolt as I originally assumed. It looks like there's just an upper latch. Is it certain this could only be locked with a key? It's very common for doors to have latches that will twist open from the inside but wont from the outside. I assume a key would open the bolt and free the handle. What's the proof that Meredith's door needed a key to lock?

This is supposed to be the inside of the door

 

[bagels]

That top part sticking out is the spring latch I think. There is no bolt, it would be underneath if it were open. So it is theoretically possible for the door to locked while open, possibly without the key if there's a lever activated mechanism which does exist on some locks.