Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Desert Fox]

"She screamed so loud, Giacomo, you could hear it from the street"

What was it, six months or was it nine months before she reported it?

I could suggest to most people, "Did you hear a scream that night and a certain percentage of people will think they heard a scream. They will not be lying, human memory is just prone to suggestion."

 

[Grinder]

It seems like you are contradicting youself. You seem to say there is plenty in Meredith's stomach but at the same time finding it strange that nothing was in the duodenum . While you may be right, IIRC there were multiple studies done on this and the times for stomach emptying found that 9:00 was definitely on the outer edges it was by no means definitive.

As I said not really interested in another round but for no chyme to be in the duodenum two hours after eating would be highly unusual. The amount of gastric content that "should" have been there isn't precisely known so both the 500 cc and and chyme in the duodenum isn't a contradiction.

Something is contradictory and I think it is either the birds or Lalli.

About the only studies that could measure the time involved dead people that had eaten at a known time before death. Remember the issue is how long for the first bite (not technically true because a later bite could turn to chyme faster ) to be reduced to chyme and BEGIN to enter the duodenum. Two hours is highly unlikely much more likely would be 30 minutes. IIRC the latest time the birds said was 6:30.

 

[query grind]

It still amounts to nothing.

Unless of course, it is implicating the black man, then it is incontrovertible proof - or at least according to the racist slime known as Friends of Amanda

 

[Grinder]

This "scream" thing is perhaps the dumbest part of "all the other evidence" which is supposed to tell something of this horrid crime.

This scream, allegedly audible from the street, was so loud and so troubling that.....

...... no one, nobody, not one single person did anything about it. One "ear-witness" had to be chased down months' later by a journalist.....

...... which says something about the police-investigation.

What was it, six months or was it nine months before she reported it?

I could suggest to most people, "Did you hear a scream that night and a certain percentage of people will think they heard a scream. They will not be lying, human memory is just prone to suggestion."

First of all the reference is to Rudi's Skype call not Nara.

Nara didn't take months to come forward. She gave her witness statement before the end of November 2007 I believe on the 23rd or 27th. She gave a TV interview before the police talked to her.

The pictures of people looking around has nothing to do with a scream unless it lasted 10 minutes.

 

[query grind]

What was it, six months or was it nine months before she reported it? "

I know this is a complicated concept, Desert Fox, so i will explain it slowly.

There were two screams or at least commotions.
One at 21:40 which was Meredith Kercher - probably not heard beyond the carpark. Reactions of passer-bys caught by CCTV
One at around around 23:00 from Amanda Knox. Witnessed by Koko, Nara and someone else.

If you understand this point I would greatly appreciate it if in future you did not engage in strawmen on the subject. You don't want to end up like Bill Williams

 

[Grinder]

Unless of course, it is implicating the black man, then it is incontrovertible proof - or at least according to the racist slime known as Friends of Amanda

Rudi was found because of DNA, matching palm prints, matching shoe prints and an unpressured admission he was there when she was murdered. Could he have been there while someone else killed her? Yes.

 

[Vixen]

I do not wish to start another round on digestion but by one hour after commencing eating chyme begins to move in something like 90% of the time. The birds were pretty sure they ate my 6:30, 7 at the latest. 2 hours after the start of a meal is way out on tail of the bell curve.

https://www.innerbody.com/image_dige02/dige21.html After being stored and mixed with hydrochloric acid in the stomach for about 30 to 60 minutes, chyme slowly enters the duodenum through the pyloric sphincter. Next, Brunner’s glands in the mucosa of the duodenum secrete alkaline mucus containing a high concentration of bicarbonate ions to neutralize the hydrochloric acid present in the chyme. This alkaline mucus both protects the walls of the duodenum and helps the chyme to reach a pH conducive to chemical digestion in the small intestine.
​

10% leaves a large margin of people how don't follow the norm*. Especially if Mez was confronted as soon as she arrived home, fear mode would have caused all sorts of hormonal reactions, such as cortisol and adrenaline. Adrenaline acts in a similar way to amphetamine, killing off appetite and any sense of relaxation. Its purpose is to prepare the body for "fight or flight". To this end, the bloodstream goes into auto concentration way from digestion and the peripherals, such as hands and feet, causing a sudden divestment of stomach content, shaky knees, a feeling of chilliness, hyperalertness, all of which is geared to help one escape the danger that affronts one (think of stage-fright) and to enhance performance, both physically and mentally. Digestion temporarily ceases, respiration becomes shallow and all your muscles are in prime readiness to flee or face the situation at your best.

In addition, gluten-based foods such as pizza dough and pasta (wheatgrain) can take longer to breakdown and digest.

*For example, only 10% of women are supposedly taller than 5'7", yet one meets women taller than this all the time, many of them much taller (even over six foot).

 

[bagels]

New alternate theory:

Rudy falls asleep during his burglary like he may have done at the law office, and similarly to having fallen asleep on the toilet downstairs after clubbing.

He wakes up around ~21:40 and goes to use the toilet. Does not know Meredith is home.

Meredith hears him and goes to check it out, catching him on the toilet.

The attack begins.

Rudy leaves by 22:00.


Pretty wacky. Still trying to find those missing 40 minutes.

 

[Grinder]

I know this is a complicated concept, Desert Fox, so i will explain it slowly.

There were two screams or at least commotions.
One at 21:40 which was Meredith Kercher - probably not heard beyond the carpark. Reactions of passer-bys caught by CCTV
One at around around 23:00 from Amanda Knox. Witnessed by Koko, Nara and someone else.

If you understand this point I would greatly appreciate it if in future you did not engage in strawmen on the subject. You don't want to end up like Bill Williams

Of course Amanda was in the plaza for both and Nara only reported one. The 23:00 would have been when both the car occupants and the the truck driver were there.

How many of the car park people reported the scream? Right, none.

Most likely a car honked or lights flashed or brakes squealed. People walking on roadways worry about being hit.

 

[acbytesla]

I know this is a complicated concept, Desert Fox, so i will explain it slowly.

There were two screams or at least commotions.
One at 21:40 which was Meredith Kercher - probably not heard beyond the carpark. Reactions of passer-bys caught by CCTV
One at around around 23:00 from Amanda Knox. Witnessed by Koko, Nara and someone else.
If you understand this point I would greatly appreciate it if in future you did not engage in strawmen on the subject. You don't want to end up like Bill Williams

Yea, not likely. Koko was pinged at that location more than 2 hours earlier.What's he doing hanging out there. Koko is not believable. He also said he at met Amanda with her Italian uncle at a pub a month before Amanda was in Italy and Amanda doesn't have an Italian uncle. Also Amanda doesn't have a gap in her teeth as Koko described.

Also, the story he described is bizarre and not believable. Nara also didn't look at a clock.

 

[Vixen]

I'm serious Vixen. Do you think about any of this before you post it or embrace it? A lot of this is not hard to figure out. Your embracing Massei just because he's a judge when the sure weight of logic points in another direction astounds me. Did you ever challenge your teachers in school?

There is significant evidence both from the digestive evidence and the phone records that Meredith was killed before 10:00 and Rudy and the phones were gone. You're hanging on to these logical absurdities like a light pole in a hurricane.

I don't get it.

Nope. I was always teacher's pet.

Not really. Your assumption is based on (a) Mez wasn't one of the 10% of the population who has a full meal sitting in their stomach undigested hours after the meal, (b) there was no reason for nerves to cause her digestion to stop, and (c) that just because the last call was at 22:13, she must have been dead then. It is just as feasible confiscating her phones was part of the bullying she was subjected to by her party-going perps, who lay in wait for her outside the cottage, as reported by Kokomani (sure, his testimony in court was self-sabotaged, but he definitely was factually at the cottage between 22:00 and 22:30).

 

[query grind]

Of course Amanda was in the plaza for both and Nara only reported one. The 23:00 would have been when both the car occupants and the the truck driver were there.

There was no tow truck and the car occupants were too busy poking a knife at Knox's throat to have an accurate recollection of the night.

 

[Mike1711]

Unless of course, it is implicating the black man, then it is incontrovertible proof - or at least according to the racist slime known as Friends of Amanda

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 0 and rule 12

 

[Grinder]

10% leaves a large margin of people how don't follow the norm*. Especially if Mez was confronted as soon as she arrived home, fear mode would have caused all sorts of hormonal reactions, such as cortisol and adrenaline. Adrenaline acts in a similar way to amphetamine, killing off appetite and any sense of relaxation. Its purpose is to prepare the body for "fight or flight". To this end, the bloodstream goes into auto concentration way from digestion and the peripherals, such as hands and feet, causing a sudden divestment of stomach content, shaky knees, a feeling of chilliness, hyperalertness, all of which is geared to help one escape the danger that affronts one (think of stage-fright) and to enhance performance, both physically and mentally. Digestion temporarily ceases, respiration becomes shallow and all your muscles are in prime readiness to flee or face the situation at your best.

In addition, gluten-based foods such as pizza dough and pasta (wheatgrain) can take longer to breakdown and digest.

*For example, only 10% of women are supposedly taller than 5'7", yet one meets women taller than this all the time, many of them much taller (even over six foot).

Go back and read the studies. AFTER ONE HOUR which would make it 7:30 by the birds' accounts most everyone would have chyme in the duodenum. By 9 everyone except a very ill person would have some. By ten only a dead person wouldn't have any.

Carbs digest the fastest. You know like pizza crust and apple crisp.

Complete stomach emptying can take up to five hours, Dr. Richard Bowen of Colorado State University explains. Digestion begins in the mouth, where your teeth break up large food particles and enzymes in saliva start to break it down. In the stomach, food mixes with strong acidic gastric juices and enzymes that break down protein. This reduces food to chyme, a porridge-like mass of partially digested food. Food does not necessarily exit the stomach in the same order that it arrived, since different nutrients take varying times to exit. Carbohydrates leave the stomach the quickest, followed by protein and fats.​

Clear now?

 

[bagels]

Kokomani (sure, his testimony in court was self-sabotaged, but he definitely was factually at the cottage between 22:00 and 22:30).

Nope. But if you want to insist on placing Koko at the scene can you at least find out where he lived at the time for me.

 

[Grinder]

There was no tow truck and the car occupants were too busy poking a knife at Knox's throat to have an accurate recollection of the night.

Goodbye! Thanks for stopping by.

 

[Vixen]

What was it, six months or was it nine months before she reported it?

I could suggest to most people, "Did you hear a scream that night and a certain percentage of people will think they heard a scream. They will not be lying, human memory is just prone to suggestion."

The witnesses who independently reported hearing a scream:

1. Amanda
2. Rudy
3. Kokomani (albeit, described as loud shouts)
4. Ms Capezzali

There is bruising around Mez' lower nostrils and upper lips, suggesting a hand tried to cover her mouth, suggesting she was emitting an unwelcome scream.

 

[bagels]

The witnesses who independently reported hearing a scream:

1. Amanda
2. Rudy
3. Kokomani (albeit, described as loud shouts)
4. Ms Capezzali

There is bruising around Mez' lower nostrils and upper lips, suggesting a hand tried to cover her mouth, suggesting she was emitting an unwelcome scream.

My new theory is Rudy, while poking around in Laura's room, got sleepy and lay down on the bed. He fell asleep for about half an hour or so and woke up to use the bathroom. Meredith caught him on the toilet coming out to hear the disturbance, and probably screamed. At this point he attacked her. What do you think?

 

[Bill Williams]

Unless of course, it is implicating the black man, then it is incontrovertible proof - or at least according to the racist slime known as Friends of Amanda

Your opinion is noted. There is now no need to engage you at all. Thanks for stopping by.

 

[Bill Williams]

I know this is a complicated concept, Desert Fox, so i will explain it slowly.

There were two screams or at least commotions.
One at 21:40 which was Meredith Kercher - probably not heard beyond the carpark. Reactions of passer-bys caught by CCTV
One at around around 23:00 from Amanda Knox. Witnessed by Koko, Nara and someone else.

If you understand this point I would greatly appreciate it if in future you did not engage in strawmen on the subject. You don't want to end up like Bill Williams

Huh!?

Once again, these "screams" were so troubling that no one did anything. That you trust Koko's word on anything is all that is needed to evaluate your opinions. Other than ad hominem and this, what do you have?