the "the brain is a radio" analogy

Navigator said:
The thing is -we don't know how deep (or wide) consciousness goes but generally sub consciousness is seen as part of the overall consciousness of the individual and if folk are just speaking about the conscious aspect of consciousness as being 'who we are' then I think they miss the mark - underestimate themselves...and everyone else.

It is like saying that when a person is sleeping, or in deep meditative states or tripping etc - that they are no longer conscious therefore they are not themselves...no - consciousness is not merely what you are when you are conscious.

I don;t think that is the generally understood meaning of the state anyway...even the link I gave in my last link verifies that people are not just talking about consciousness as being in an awake and aware state...

Also - unconscious seems to be confused with subconscious...
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Yes you appear confused by constant equivocation.
 
annnnoid said:
He can’t be called wrong simply because no-one actually knows what is right.
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But we do know what is right. We know that the brain isn't a radio, and Chopra is wrong.

the lack of an explicit understanding of this subject is the reason that Chopra can promote his theories.
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No, the real reason is that people would rather believe new-age woo than science.

Nick227 said:
We actually don't know where consciousness exists. The most likely theory is that it is emerging from neural activity but emergence isn't well enough understood to theorise about where emergence actually happens.
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Consciousness occurs in the brain, and is a result of neural activity. There is no scientific dispute about this fact.

Chopra's statement isn't meaningless, it's wrong.
 
MuDPhuD said:
I was hoping you could help me understand what it is to you. Without pinning that down the rest is a waste of time.
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On the contrary - but whatever. You appear to be looking for something but it is most likely not 'hope' that will find it for you.

Each to their own.
 
You quote me thus:

How is consciousness detected in the brain?


Source: http://cirrie.buffalo.edu/encyclopedia/en/article/133/

Obviously the article is about determining if the brain is dead or not = consciousness is no longer there - the 'person' has died...

To those who believe that the brain creates consciousness, the brain is no longer producing and sustaining the consciousness. The brain is dead, thus so is the consciousness it once sustained.
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and then say this:

Nick227 said:
You are using terms from separate fields interchangeably and this denudes your statements of meaning.
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but that in itself conveys nothing helpful.
 
Nick227 said:
Which does beg the question... who actually is doing this identifying?
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Generally it is that part of the human being most susceptible to external stimulation. The identifying appears to be a ripple effect which could even be sourced from the distant past, with subsequent additions from other affected personalities down through the ages to present day and passed on from parent to child.

But regardless of the external sources, ultimately it is the individual who decides how they will self identify, even if they choose to accept the voice of externals - as it were...

Actually, such ideas are currently quite in vogue in neuroscience, so you are more in the mainstream here. Integrated Information Theory, for example, asserts that the brain is merely one part of a much larger system - the universe. And that consciousness appears to be emerging from its activity simply because it represents the maximally irreducible subsystem within the overall system.
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When I observe biological life forms, I see an intelligence which hints at consciousness involved with the process. Actually - it more than 'hints' but can remain unnoticed depending on what other things are distracting or vying for ones attention.

When I see images of the Earth, I see a living being.
 
but not nice in a sense that the Earth is behaving in a pleasing and gentle manner as if it has created a model of itself in space and with me and other creatures - - but nice as in it is a delightful place to live and visit.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Consciousness occurs in the brain, and is a result of neural activity. There is no scientific dispute about this fact.
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Consciousness is very heavily tied to brain activity, I don't think anyone doubts this. But when you make statements like "it occurs in the brain" you have to be careful.

You may finally be proven right. But, equally, it may be that our sense of location is also emerging along with consciousness. This seems to me more likely with the theories that revolve around consciousness as an emergent.
 
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Navigator said:
When I see images of the Earth, I see a living being.
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Well, I'd say this is not so weird really.

And actually consistent with IIT (Integrated Information Theory), which is the latest, much-vaunted hope for finally getting consciousness understood.

If we consider the Earth as a vast processor, then according to IIT consciousness emerges at the level of the sub-system which exhibits maximum irreducibility, this function denoted by the Greek letter, Phi. Currently that is the level of the human brain, so consciousness emerges from that level.

But there is no reason why this couldn't change. If the value of Phi for the Earth exceeded that of the value of the brain, then consciousness would emerge at that level. The planet would literally awaken and become conscious! Indeed the two may anyway be co-existing.
 
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Nick227 said:
Well, I'd say this is not so weird really.

And actually consistent with IIT (Integrated Information Theory), which is the latest, much-vaunted hope for finally getting consciousness understood.

If we consider the Earth as a vast processor, then according to IIT consciousness emerges at the level of the sub-system which exhibits maximum irreducibility, this function denoted by the Greek letter, Phi. Currently that is the level of the human brain, so consciousness emerges from that level.

But there is no reason why this couldn't change. If the value of Phi for the Earth exceeded that of the value of the brain, then consciousness would emerge at that level. The planet would literally awaken and become conscious! Indeed the two may anyway be co-existing.
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Yes...I just finished mentioning that in post #4 in this thread

"What I like about it is the idea that what has been going on with this planet is altogether an act of a god - one who has been both overseeing the operations undergone and undergoing as well as participating in these at a more intimate level.

Awesome."
 
MuDPhuD said:
I was hoping to hear from you (or navigator, or others) what it is YOU mean by "consciousness", by means of elaboration on your part.

What I think most people mean is this:

The sense of being an individual ---who sees, hears, feels, etc,, --who ponders and decides, ---who acts. This is the best I am able to do I think.
Perhaps you can help me improve on the definition of what it is we are talking about?

The problem I see is not that "consciousness" is undefinable, the problem is that in a given discussion the word remains undefined, and therefore open to equivocation.
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I think the point of the thread may be that Consciousness is still undefined. It is still a mystery.
 
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Navigator said:
I think the point of the thread may be that Consciousness is still undefined. It is still a mystery.
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No, the point of this thread is the argument that some have made that conscious exists and is sourced outside and independent of the brain, and the brain's function is as a 2 way radio to allow that consciousness to interact with the material world.
We may not understand exactly how conciousness works, but that doesn't preclude us from reasoning from all available evidence that it originates out of the brains biological/chemical functions.
 
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