Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Grinder]

The police strongly suspected Raff right from the start. They told Richard Owen of the TIMES he had bleached the soles of his daps and that the bloody soeprint in Mez' room matched his Nikes in that it was size 42 and had a star-shaped defect on the heel.

Raff's advocate made a statement that it was impossible to distinguish the pattern on the shoe print.


Hey, presto! By the time of the trial, it suddenly became as sharply distinguishable as a fart in a lift.

Wow he bleached shoes that didn't match the prints.

Is there anything in actual court records (those that you love) discussing the star-shaped heel?

How do you know the police told Owen anything? Is there a tape? Did he write stories later asking what happened to the star-shaped print?

 

[bagels]

The police strongly suspected Raff right from the start. They told Richard Owen of the TIMES he had bleached the soles of his daps and that the bloody soeprint in Mez' room matched his Nikes in that it was size 42 and had a star-shaped defect on the heel.

Raff's advocate made a statement that it was impossible to distinguish the pattern on the shoe print.


Hey, presto! By the time of the trial, it suddenly became as sharply distinguishable as a fart in a lift.

You're not even using internally consistent logic. Amanda and Raff meticulously cleaned up the crime scene but left perfect identifiable ring-shaped prints in blood all over the apartment for the police to match to his shoes?

At any rate the issue was put to rest by the prints themselves. Where the tread pattern meets the seam of the shoe is distinctively and fundamentally different. On Raffs there are perpendicular ridges. On Rudy's a smooth vertical line, which is what was found at the scene. It is indisputable, which is why even the prosecution dropped it.

 

[Vixen]

Yes and that's why they were the messenger by calling F instead of going to Gubbio as planned and waiting for the news. Clearly even with the idiotic clean-up meme, they could have been done well before Q's store opened and on their way to Gubbio by 10.

And yes according to you they were calling after the police arrived, making at least 4 calls mere feet away from two policemen.

Why would it be odd to ask how to handle a call to the police in a third world country?

Firstly, the USA is second only to China in Human Rights violations in terms of harsh punishment via death penalty. People who live in glass houses...

Secondly, Amanda did not tell Filomena about the break-in until Filomena rang HER, for the second time, after an unanswered call, at 12:34 some two hours after Amanda claimed to have spotted all the "weird signs".

Thirdly, they were waiting for the washing machine to finish. The postal police recorded at an early stage they heard the cycle just coming to an end, and Filomena testified under oath, it was still freshly damp ('umido') when she arrived circa 13:00.

Fourthly, the plan probably was to go to Gubbio whilst the body was being found, as it was only one hour's drive away, if it hadn't been for the surprise arrival of Senor Battistelli in his splendid stormtrooper boots and striped pantalons.

Finally, Raff did recently say his personal favourite saint was St.Francis of Assissi, patron saint of Gubbio, so maybe it retains a macabre connection for him.

 

[Vixen]

So the PLE got the shoe print match wrong and the Sollecitos were able to notice that and plant the box in Rudi's place?

How did the Sollecitos know it was Rudi before the police? Did the Sollecitos talk on the phone only about things not related to their Mafia ties?

I'll be back later for the answer.

Once police identified the shoeprint as Raff's, Papa Raff roamed the length and breadth of Italy to find a similar brand with the same sole pattern.

By the time of the trial it was mysteriously transformed from size 42 to 45, and an empty shoe box of the alternative make, also Nike, and a top-selling brand, turned up in Rudy's apartment, even though the shoe was never found.

Rudy is supposed to have thrown them away in Germany, so it could be, knowing he was there, he assumed it was his print.

No actual shoe was matched to the ladies size 37 ASICS also found at the scene, so Amanda is very lucky no corresponding shoe box was found in her room.

 

[query grind]

QC -

Perhaps you missed this:

So creating a narrative that has Guede, one of multiple perpetrators, being ordered to take sole responsibility

3rd November - Guede receives facebook threats - leaves for Milan [Contemporary newspaper reports]
5th November - Guede arrested in Milan for cocaine possession [Contemporary newspaper reports]
5-6 November - Knox names the wrong black guy. Knox, Sollecito and Lumumba arrested
6th November ?Guede released and leaves for Germany intending to claim asylum?
?13th November Guede's friend brings him to the attention of police
16th November Boemia and Rinaldi identify print as Guede ("provisionally")
???? 'Ndrangheta order Guede to confess to cover outstanding forensic points so as to protect co-perpetrators
19th November - recorded Skype chat with Guede and Benedetti + police.

Could you comment?

Was Koko a member/associate of 'Ndrangheta?

I can't pretend to know if Koko was 'Ndrangheta or not, but my instinct is he was a bystander who was roped in unwillingly.

1. I think the cocaine was planted on his house as intimidation
2. He is the only person outside that house around 11:00 who remembers anything. Everyone else saw nothing
3. His testimony is long and not yet translated, but he appears to have been blabbing around town about what he saw and been advised to shut up: "those knives you saw were just plastic knives". Because he blabbed someone told the police he knew something, which is why he was forced to testify. True 'Ndragheta don't blab, not even in pubs.
4. From what I can tell he gives Rudy Guede the role of Hicham Khiri. For example, I think it is very unlikely Rudy Guede would say something like: "I am black, I am not Moroccan or Tunisian."
5. I assume then he gives Daniele and Giacomo the roles of Amanda and Raffaele.
6. Except, and this is where Koko interpretation gets a bit tricky, when he throws olives at Amanda and gets the famous scream

GB:Ah because the olives even reached Amanda?
HK:Yes, I got it right, in full.
GB:He took it in full?
HK:Yup.
GB:He has fully taken in front of where?
HK:In the face, she starts screaming.
GB:For olives?

I sometimes get the feeling that Kokomani was rather enjoying himself at this point. There is definitely information in that testimony despite the obvious lies and concealment, but extracting from google translate is not easy.

 

[Vixen]

POLICE: Carabinieri
RS: Hello, good day, listen … someone has entered the house breaking the window and has made a big mess and there is a closed door. The street is…
RS to AK: What’s the street? AK: [Background] Via della Pergola.RS: Via della Pergola 7.
POLICE: Via?
RS: della Pergola 7, in Perugia.
POLICE: Residence of mister…?
RS: Ehmm… Amanda Knox.
POLICE: Eh??
RS: The… who lives here is… they are a group of students among which there is Amanda Knox.
POLICE: Give me the name and mobile number of one of the tenants.
RS: OK. Amanda.
POLICE: Yes…
RS: The last name K, N…
POLICE: Yes…
RS: O, X.
POLICE: Yes
RS: The mobile number… ehhh.
POLICE: Hello?
RS: Yes, yes, I’m here. I’m taking the number.
[Long pause]
RS: 348
POLICE: Yes.
RS: 46
POLICE: Yes.
RS: 73
POLICE: Yes.
RS: 590
POLICE: 590?
RS: Yes.
POLICE: Theft [burglary] in the house eh?
RS: No, there’s no theft… they broke a window… there is a mess… there is also a closed door… a mess.
POLICE: Just a moment please.

[Music plays for 5 seconds]
POLICE: Hello?
RS: Yes.
POLICE: So listen, they entered… they broke a window… and how do you know they entered?
RS: It can be seen by the signs… that there are drops… there are blood stains in the bathroom.
POLICE: So they entered… because the [window’s] broken… did they cut themselves breaking the window?
RS: Ehmm… this…

[The call is cut off.]
POLICE: Hello?

2nd 112 Call 12.54pm

POLICE: Carabinieri, Perugia.
RS: Yes hello, I called two seconds ago.
POLICE: Someone has entered the house and broke the window?
RS: Yes.
POLICE: Then they went into the bathroom.
RS: I don’t know, if you come here perhaps…
POLICE: What did they take?
RS: They didn’t take anything, the problem is the closed door, there are bloodstains.
POLICE: There is a closed door. Which door’s closed?
RS: [The door] of one of the flatmates who isn’t here and we don’t know where she is.
POLICE: And there are blood stains outside the door of this flatmate who’s not there?
RS: The blood stains are in the bathroom.
POLICE: Oh in the bathroom. And this door is closed. And this girl, do you have her mobile number, her …?
RS: Yes, yes, we tried to call her but she’s not answering.
POLICE: OK, I’ll send a patrol car now and we’ll check the situation out.
RS: OK.
POLICE: OK?
RS: OK.
POLICE: Goodbye.
RS: Goodbye.

Not one speak up. He is talking with Amanda during the call. Did the PP report they were left alone while the kids huddled in her room?

Nothing corroborates the PP timing.

Why did Raff suddenly cut the call off? Where the police too near all of a sudden?

 

[bagels]

Why did Raff suddenly cut the call off? Where the police too near all of a sudden?

The cutoff was less than 9 seconds. About enough time to immediately dial the number back after a dropped cell signal, ring a couple times, and someone to pick up.

 

[Vixen]

I can't pretend to know if Koko was 'Ndrangheta or not, but my instinct is he was a bystander who was roped in unwillingly.

1. I think the cocaine was planted on his house as intimidation
2. He is the only person outside that house around 11:00 who remembers anything. Everyone else saw nothing
3. His testimony is long and not yet translated, but he appears to have been blabbing around town about what he saw and been advised to shut up: "those knives you saw were just plastic knives". Because he blabbed someone told the police he knew something, which is why he was forced to testify. True 'Ndragheta don't blab, not even in pubs.
4. From what I can tell he gives Rudy Guede the role of Hicham Khiri. For example, I think it is very unlikely Rudy Guede would say something like: "I am black, I am not Moroccan or Tunisian."
5. I assume then he gives Daniele and Giacomo the roles of Amanda and Raffaele.
6. Except, and this is where Koko interpretation gets a bit tricky, when he throws olives at Amanda and gets the famous scream


I sometimes get the feeling that Kokomani was rather enjoying himself at this point. There is definitely information in that testimony despite the obvious lies and concealment, but extracting from google translate is not easy.

Whilst it is true Amanda involved her roommates in the sleazy world of serious organised crime by sleeping with drug dealers and bringing home characters such as Daniele, I can see why the investigation limited itself to the immediate crime.

Kokomani was tragi-comical in his heavy disguise, and subverted testimony (=omerta). He knew Rudy from having worked at the same farm (and no doubt meeting for local drug deals). That doesn't mean to say he or Shaky and chums were necessarily involved in the Kercher murder. The Ndragheta whose patch it was, no doubt wanted to stick their noses in to discover whether any of their hoodlums were involved. I dare say, they did as much intelligence gathering as the police.

To the extent Rudy Amanda and Raff indulged in some adulterated mind-bending drugs that night, and the stolen €300 rent no doubt has a druggie connection, (both Raff and Amanda vowed to give up drugs after the murder), it could be chasing wild geese to speculate anyone else was there.

 

[Bill Williams]

Whilst it is true Amanda involved her roommates in the sleazy world of serious organised crime by sleeping with drug dealers and bringing home characters such as Daniele, I can see why the investigation limited itself to the immediate crime.

..................................

To the extent Rudy Amanda and Raff indulged in some adulterated mind-bending drugs that night, and the stolen €300 rent no doubt has a druggie connection, (both Raff and Amanda vowed to give up drugs after the murder), it could be chasing wild geese to speculate anyone else was there.

None of this is even remotely true. Where do you dream this up?

 

[Wattson]

Whilst it is true Amanda involved her roommates in the sleazy world of serious organised crime by sleeping with drug dealers and bringing home characters such as Daniele, I can see why the investigation limited itself to the immediate crime.

Kokomani was tragi-comical in his heavy disguise, and subverted testimony (=omerta). He knew Rudy from having worked at the same farm (and no doubt meeting for local drug deals). That doesn't mean to say he or Shaky and chums were necessarily involved in the Kercher murder. The Ndragheta whose patch it was, no doubt wanted to stick their noses in to discover whether any of their hoodlums were involved. I dare say, they did as much intelligence gathering as the police.

To the extent Rudy Amanda and Raff indulged in some adulterated mind-bending drugs that night, and the stolen €300 rent no doubt has a druggie connection, (both Raff and Amanda vowed to give up drugs after the murder), it could be chasing wild geese to speculate anyone else was there.

Fascinating!! Please expand.

 

[Wattson]

Ah Bill, you beat me to it.

 

[Bill Williams]

Sorry Mr williams. I see a possibility that the shoe prints in blood were left by Hicham Khiri and that the shoe box that the Sollecitos purchased in Bari was planted in Guede's apartment.

I hope that isn't too cryptic for you.

Cryptic isn't the issue. You said that the Sollecito's knew something they weren't telling us.

You implied everything, and demonstrated nothing. There's been too much of that in this case.

The first instance was perhaps, "She buckled and told us what they already knew." Remember that?

Why is it that posters think they are right, if only someone else would break down and confirm what the poster cannot confirm for himself?

I think there's something you are not telling us.

 

[acbytesla]

Why did Raff suddenly cut the call off? Where the police too near all of a sudden?

Why not accept it that Raffaele finished his business as opposed to attempting to read something in to it? This is a perfect example where you go wrong. Why did a Raffaele do this or Amanda didn't do that. Etc, etc, etc.

Nothing about that interchange seems strange, yet here you are suggesting that there is by asking a leading question who's premise is false.

 

[query grind]

Cryptic isn't the issue. You said that the Sollecito's knew something they weren't telling us.

It was reference to what the Sollecitos said about Guede: He should tell what he knows.
And as Guede - correctly - responded: the Sollecitos should also tell what they know.

 

[Mike1711]

As you saw in his testimony sworn under oath, the police 'never look at the cctv camera for the time', they look at their watch, so it is completely irrelevant whether the camera time was ten minutes, fast, slow or showing New York time.

Next intuitive hypothesis...?

Wow!! This must top the list of nonsensical statements.

Vixen, it doesn't matter how long or how hard you look at a cctv camera it isn't going to let you know the time.

Of course the time on the camera footage is relevant. It shows a picture and a time. If the time on the cctv footage is incorrect it places the event recorded at an incorrect time.

If the camera is showing New York time it can be adjusted to show local time.

Why do you think cctv cameras record the time?

....and lastly the police have more than one watch

 

[Bill Williams]

It was reference to what the Sollecitos said about Guede: He should tell what he knows.
And as Guede - correctly - responded: the Sollecitos should also tell what they know.

So in other words, you got nuttin'. If this is what you know, we're no further along.

 

[Vixen]

The cutoff was less than 9 seconds. About enough time to immediately dial the number back after a dropped cell signal, ring a couple times, and someone to pick up.

The facts are these:

12:08 Amanda rings Mez's two phones. Sig.na Lana hears it in her garden.

12:11 Phone conversation between Amanda and Filomena. Filomena urges Amanda to call Mez. Amanda furtively does not tell Filomena she already has.

12:12-ish Amanda calls each of Mez' phones again for the record as they last just one second and three seconds. No message is left on voicemail saying, "Please call", nor is a text sent.

12:20-ish An unanswered call to Amanda from Filomena.

12:34 Second phone conversation between Amanda and Filomena. “Amanda told me that the window in my room was broken and that my room was in a mess. At this point I asked her to call the police and she told me that she already had.”

12:47 Amanda rings Mom Edda - the first time since arriving in Perugia - at circa 04:00 am Seattle time. Edda urges Amanda to call the police.

12:50 Raff calls his sister in the Carabinieri.

12:51 Raff phones the Carabinieri on 112 (for the first time).

12:54 Raff phones the Carabinieri again as for some reason the call is cut off.

 

[Bill Williams]

Ah Bill, you beat me to it.

If Vixen didn't have inflamed language she would have nothing. It's been more than 8 years since the original horrible events, and Vixen sees no problem with chucking this into a ever-expanding list of ludicrous incriminating claims:

and the stolen €300 rent no doubt has a druggie connection​

 

[query grind]

So in other words, you got nuttin'. If this is what you know, we're no further along.

None of us has any standing in this case.

My only goal is to point out to Knox that there is plenty of dynamite lying around that she could use if she ever chose to break her silence.

I certainly wouldn't bother trying to convince Friends of Amanda of anything. They are and always have been entirely irrelevant. Their only contribution was to lull Knox into a false sense of security that her account of that evening had the slightest shred of credibility.

 

[Mike1711]

Sorry Mr williams. I see a possibility that the shoe prints in blood were left by Hicham Khiri and that the shoe box that the Sollecitos purchased in Bari was planted in Guede's apartment.

I hope that isn't too cryptic for you.

Of course that's possible.

It's also possible little green men did it. ....or maybe it was Mignini.

Or maybe it was Mr Williams.

Actually it was me.