Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Overall it doesn't really matter. Today cops in the bigger municipalities cops are tracked via GPS, so it's extra precise. My best friend responded to a mass shooting 10 years ago on Capitol Hill when Kyle Huff shot 8 people killing 6 and then shot himself when the police arrived. I mention it because the police dispatch report was in the paper. Every radio interaction is logged to the second. And the police are trained to report there moment of arrival and where they are at. Their radios are digital so they don't have to identify themselves, that is instantly recorded by them hitting their transmitter button.

Police internationally have had radio communication for decades. Presumably the postal police on that occasion just running an errand didn't feel the need to use it.

 

[Bill Williams]

Well to achieve a truly Mensa level of accuracy, barging in and throwing in a pair of Nike shoes and barging out again.
We might also recall that luminol testing found no traces of Meredith's blood on Guede's floor and in fact absolutely zero of her DNA anywhere in his apartment.

Equally amazingly an empty box of Nike Outbreak 2 shoes suddenly materialised in Guede's flat a mere few weeks after the Sollecitos managed to locate a pair in Bari.

But I am sure that was just coincidence....

No, but that you managed to link the empty-box at Rudy's with the Sollecito's, with plenty of rhetorical retreat room because of the manner in which it was stated, says all we need to hear.

 

[Vixen]

One, there is a difference between saying Batistelli is corrupt and saying he simply made a mistake. Hey, maybe his watch was fast. But he was wrong. It wouldn't be the first time that error begat error begat error.

If you are one of the few people who still wears a watch, you soon get to know whether it runs fast or slow. Mine runs a couple of minutes fast as being a Londoner, I have a tendency to be Just In Time, and thus rush about frantically everywhere - like most Londoners - so a watch running fast gives me some breathing space. Or so it seems.

I just knew the PIP were going to next desperately claim, "Battistelli's watch may have been 15 minutes fast, without his knowing it!!!"

 

[Vixen]

This is untrue.
Amanda called the police (Carabinieri) once. The argument is at what time did the postal police arrive. Everyone (except you?) accepts she phoned the police. The call is documented.

You know that Knox called the police so why do you state something that you know is false? You do your case no favour by continually saying things that are untrue.

Amanda did NOT call the police once. Your assertions are embarrassing.

 

[query grind]

No, but that you managed to link the empty-box at Rudy's with the Sollecito's, with plenty of rhetorical retreat room because of the manner in which it was stated, says all we need to hear.

The Sollecitos should tell us what they know.

 

[Vixen]

if the PP were there before Raf's calls the PGP need to explain how they pulled off making the calls without being heard including Raf yelling to Amanda for the address.

They also need to explain why the the very astute Amanda would assume a friendly judge wouldn't accept the times given by the PP. Why would they risk being caught by the PP making the call? Why wouldn't they accept some police were there and they just needed to control the investigation as was their original plan?

Did they whisper on the 112 call? Did the operator keep saying speak up?

Even a third class judge, in a third world country working in a dead end provincial town could see the klown kops had made a mistake.

You are ahead of yourself. The cops were there to make a simple delivery to Filomena of her mobile phone (which she lent to Mez) found in someone's garden.

BEFORE they were aware there had been a murder, it is known that Raff DID go into Amanda's room, and it is believed he called 112 from there in private.

There was no reason for the cops to monitor the moves of anyone at that stage.

Had Amanda reported the break-in at 12:11 the same time Raff got her to call Filomena, then the whole crime scene could have been cordoned off in advance.

 

[Bill Williams]

Exactly. If either of the Postals had been looking at an accurate time source and keeping a contemporaneous log based on those timings, in the manner you describe here, there would be little dispute over their timings (once it was established that a) the time source was indeed accurate, and b) the log truly was contemporaneous). Or even if something with a provably-accurate time stamp had happened at a key moment (e.g. if either of the Postals had made a timed radio call to their base just as they were getting out of their car to walk up to the cottage), this would serve as an equally accurate time guide.

But neither of those things happened. And there's no reason to think that they OUGHT to have happened - after all, as the police entered the cottage, they were doing nothing more than a dull bureaucratic errand for which timings had zero relevance or importance. So even if the Postals had simply returned the phones as expected and gone away, they'd probably have been hard-pressed to recall the timing of their arrival at the cottage with any degree of accuracy even hours later. What impacts the situation further still is the enormity of what actually did happen once the Postals got inside the cottage. Their whole day changed in a shattering and traumatic way that they'd never anticipated. And IMO that would make it even less likely that they would be able to recall their arrival time with any degree of accuracy.

You beat me to it.

In a sense the Postal Police were in the situation that both AK and RS found themselves in three nights' later.

For the Postals their activity before the grisly discovery couldn't have been any more mundane. They had zero incentive to document accurately anything to do with returning two phones. They tried to help two kids who'd had some sort of disturbance at their flat. Even though this was not exactly their bailiwick, they went inside with the kids and were as confused as they were - what seemed to be a break-in didn't look like one.

What they did not know was that it was an interrupted break-in, but before the discovery who really cares other than those with a potential insurance clam?

After the discovery? A minute-by-minute accounting for activities is all important.

Similarly for the time after Rita Ficara goes out into the hall at the Questura and says to a young American, "It's time for truth." Knox had been caught out in a lie about Meredith's drug use, as all the denizens had - "cooperate about the murder, but for heaven's sake don't tell them about the marijuana in the cottage! They're growing the stuff downstairs!!"

The cops at interrogation are interested in a minute-by-minute accounting from Knox of stuff from 4 evening previous, all Knox knows is that she's slapped and called a liar when she varies on the slightest detail. Next thing she knows she'd trying to explain what "See you later" means, and the interpreter meddles - not with an accurate translation for the cops - but by turning her attention to the American suggesting that she has amnesia because of trauma.

Marasca/Bruno put a stop to all this 7 1/3 years later.

 

[Bill Williams]

No, but that you managed to link the empty-box at Rudy's with the Sollecito's, with plenty of rhetorical retreat room because of the manner in which it was stated, says all we need to hear.

The Sollecitos should tell us what they know.

No, YOU should tell us what you are accusing them of - rather than making cryptic, meaningless conspiratorial-sounding remarks. Barbie Nadeau has already cornered the market of this sinisterly-conspiratorial way of putting it, "She knows something she's not telling us."

She's going to sue you for restraint of trade.

 

[query grind]

No, YOU should tell us what you are accusing them of - rather than making cryptic, meaningless conspiratorial-sounding remarks. Barbie Nadeau has already cornered the market of this sinisterly-conspiratorial way of putting it, "She knows something she's not telling us."

Sorry Mr williams. I see a possibility that the shoe prints in blood were left by Hicham Khiri and that the shoe box that the Sollecitos purchased in Bari was planted in Guede's apartment.

I hope that isn't too cryptic for you.

 

[Vixen]

<snip>


Which at least would explain why they received a toilet bomb hoax call and sent the postal police to immediately search the garden and not the toilet.

The Postal Police had Filomena's phone already and Knox was talking to them in those 3 calls 12:00-12:34.
The last call was "we can't find your house."

Once that is established who cares if a man walking along a road at 13:22 has a pink stripe on his trousers or fortunate enough to possess arms?

FYI the police did not search the garden (at that stage). The lady of the property heard the phone ringing when Amanda rang before ringing Filomena circa 12:11. It rang 16 seconds. The bomb hoax was received on the lady's own phone the night before, not Mez'.

 

[Vixen]

I love it when one pretends to be an expert on every subject.

Vixen,
Where was Meredith's phone at 10:13 PM November 1st 2007?

As you say, it was picked up by the WIND antenna.

 

[Grinder]

You are ahead of yourself. The cops were there to make a simple delivery to Filomena of her mobile phone (which she lent to Mez) found in someone's garden.

BEFORE they were aware there had been a murder, it is known that Raff DID go into Amanda's room, and it is believed he called 112 from there in private.

There was no reason for the cops to monitor the moves of anyone at that stage.

Had Amanda reported the break-in at 12:11 the same time Raff got her to call Filomena, then the whole crime scene could have been cordoned off in advance.

They were immediately told something was amiss and they showed them the blood in the bathroom and the broken window in F's room. The cottage is a small, small four bedroom. It is not credible that four or five calls were made by the kids and the PP didn't notice. As I said Raf asked A for the address in one of the calls.

Do you have a cite in which the operator repeatedly asks for Raf to speak up?

You also don't address the risk reward of these calls made while the PP were there. Clearly the kids would think the PP would report arriving before the calls were made and they would look guilty. They had alerted F and that would show they weren't "surprised" away from their cleaning activities.

The calls being made while the cops were there makes no sense. I don't need no stinkin watches or CCTV clocks to know the above.

 

[Grinder]

QC -

Perhaps you missed this:

So creating a narrative that has Guede, one of multiple perpetrators, being ordered to take sole responsibility

3rd November - Guede receives facebook threats - leaves for Milan [Contemporary newspaper reports]
5th November - Guede arrested in Milan for cocaine possession [Contemporary newspaper reports]
5-6 November - Knox names the wrong black guy. Knox, Sollecito and Lumumba arrested
6th November ?Guede released and leaves for Germany intending to claim asylum?
?13th November Guede's friend brings him to the attention of police
16th November Boemia and Rinaldi identify print as Guede ("provisionally")
???? 'Ndrangheta order Guede to confess to cover outstanding forensic points so as to protect co-perpetrators
19th November - recorded Skype chat with Guede and Benedetti + police.

Could you comment?

Was Koko a member/associate of 'Ndrangheta?

 

[Vixen]

Sorry Mr williams. I see a possibility that the shoe prints in blood were left by Hicham Khiri and that the shoe box that the Sollecitos purchased in Bari was planted in Guede's apartment.

I hope that isn't too cryptic for you.

I agree the issue over the shoe print was a nifty sleight of hand by the Sollecitos.

Khiri was interrogated, just as Amanda, Raff and all the housemates and Brits were, and the police satisfied themselves "Shaky" had nothing to do with the crime under investigation.

IMV Amanda maliciously named "Shaky" in the questura to (a) detract attention away from herself and (b) because he was a friend of Mez who offered Amanda a lift on his motorbike and then made unwelcome advances.

 

[Grinder]

I agree the issue over the shoe print was a nifty sleight of hand by the Sollecitos.

Khiri was interrogated, just as Amanda, Raff and all the housemates and Brits were, and the police satisfied themselves "Shaky" had nothing to do with the crime under investigation.

IMV Amanda maliciously named "Shaky" in the questura to (a) detract attention away from herself and (b) because he was a friend of Mez who offered Amanda a lift on his motorbike and then made unwelcome advances.

So the PLE got the shoe print match wrong and the Sollecitos were able to notice that and plant the box in Rudi's place?

How did the Sollecitos know it was Rudi before the police? Did the Sollecitos talk on the phone only about things not related to their Mafia ties?

I'll be back later for the answer.

 

[Vixen]

They were immediately told something was amiss and they showed them the blood in the bathroom and the broken window in F's room. The cottage is a small, small four bedroom. It is not credible that four or five calls were made by the kids and the PP didn't notice. As I said Raf asked A for the address in one of the calls.

Do you have a cite in which the operator repeatedly asks for Raf to speak up?

You also don't address the risk reward of these calls made while the PP were there. Clearly the kids would think the PP would report arriving before the calls were made and they would look guilty. They had alerted F and that would show they weren't "surprised" away from their cleaning activities.

The calls being made while the cops were there makes no sense. I don't need no stinkin watches or CCTV clocks to know the above.

The phone transcript is freely available.

The key to your enigma is this: the first phone call Raff made to the police was actually to his SISTER.

This was after several frantic calls between him and his father.

Clearly, Raff rang Fanny for ADVICE.

Just as Amanda rang Edda for same.

Both persons gave the same advice, "Call the police!"

Raff and Amanda's reluctance was (a) they knew Mez lay dead behind the door, (b) they did not want to be the "messenger", as the finder is invariably the first suspect and (c) knowing Mez was dead, there was no urgency.

Vanessa, Edda and Filomena not knowing, felt the urgency.

Incriminating herself further, Amanda then sent an email to the world claiming to be in a state of panic, banging on Mez' door and shouting louder and louder, yet the postal police and Filomena and chums, described her as calm and laid back and even reassured the cops Mez' door was always locked.

In her prison diary, Amanda over-eggs the pudding even further by setting out how Mez liked to lock the door, for example, when she was away in London for the weekend or when showering.

 

[Grinder]

The phone transcript is freely available.

The key to your enigma is this: the first phone call Raff made to the police was actually to his SISTER.

This was after several frantic calls between him and his father.

Clearly, Raff rang Fanny for ADVICE.

Just as Amanda rang Edda for same.

Both persons gave the same advice, "Call the police!"

Their reluctance was (a) they knew Mez lay dead behind the door, (b) they did not want to be the "messenger", as the finder is invariably the first suspect and (c) knowing Mez was dead, there was no urgency.
Vanessa, Edda and Filomena not knowing, felt the urgency.

Incriminating herself further, Amanda then sent an email to the world claiming to be in a state of panic, banging on Mez' door and shouting louder and louder, yet the postal police and Filomena and chums, described her as calm and laid back and even reassured the cops Mez' door was always locked.

In her prison diary, Filomena over-eggs the pudding even further by setting out how Me liked to lock the door, for example, when she was away in London for the weekend or when showering.

Yes and that's why they were the messenger by calling F instead of going to Gubbio as planned and waiting for the news. Clearly even with the idiotic clean-up meme, they could have been done well before Q's store opened and on their way to Gubbio by 10.

And yes according to you they were calling after the police arrived, making at least 4 calls mere feet away from two policemen.

Why would it be odd to ask how to handle a call to the police in a third world country?

 

[bagels]

The phone transcript is freely available.

The key to your enigma is this: the first phone call Raff made to the police was actually to his SISTER.

This was after several frantic calls between him and his father.

Clearly, Raff rang Fanny for ADVICE.

Just as Amanda rang Edda for same.

Both persons gave the same advice, "Call the police!"

Their reluctance was (a) they knew Mez lay dead behind the door, (b) they did not want to be the "messenger", as the finder is invariably the first suspect and (c) knowing Mez was dead, there was no urgency.

Vanessa, Edda and Filomena not knowing, felt the urgency.

Incriminating herself further, Amanda then sent an email to the world claiming to be in a state of panic, banging on Mez' door and shouting louder and louder, yet the postal police and Filomena and chums, described her as calm and laid back and even reassured the cops Mez' door was always locked.

In her prison diary, Filomena over-eggs the pudding even further by setting out how Me liked to lock the door, for example, when she was away in London for the weekend or when showering.

It's a striking contrast between the grand theatrical staged scene with the smashed window, huge rock, torn up room, crying out for immediate emotional response, and them just casually mucking about. I think if they had been involved they would have frantically called the police and feigned panic. Like this woman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3RJ38OYW00

Their reaction to the crime scene is consistent with them both being clueless airheads IMO.

 

[Vixen]

So the PLE got the shoe print match wrong and the Sollecitos were able to notice that and plant the box in Rudi's place?

How did the Sollecitos know it was Rudi before the police? Did the Sollecitos talk on the phone only about things not related to their Mafia ties?

I'll be back later for the answer.

The police strongly suspected Raff right from the start. They told Richard Owen of the TIMES he had bleached the soles of his daps and that the bloody shoeprint in Mez' room matched his Nikes in that it was size 42 and had a star-shaped defect on the heel.

Raff's advocate made a statement that it was impossible to distinguish the pattern on the shoe print.


Hey, presto! By the time of the trial, it suddenly became as sharply distinguishable as a fart in a lift.

 

[Grinder]

POLICE: Carabinieri
RS: Hello, good day, listen … someone has entered the house breaking the window and has made a big mess and there is a closed door. The street is…
RS to AK: What’s the street? AK: [Background] Via della Pergola.RS: Via della Pergola 7.
POLICE: Via?
RS: della Pergola 7, in Perugia.
POLICE: Residence of mister…?
RS: Ehmm… Amanda Knox.
POLICE: Eh??
RS: The… who lives here is… they are a group of students among which there is Amanda Knox.
POLICE: Give me the name and mobile number of one of the tenants.
RS: OK. Amanda.
POLICE: Yes…
RS: The last name K, N…
POLICE: Yes…
RS: O, X.
POLICE: Yes
RS: The mobile number… ehhh.
POLICE: Hello?
RS: Yes, yes, I’m here. I’m taking the number.
[Long pause]
RS: 348
POLICE: Yes.
RS: 46
POLICE: Yes.
RS: 73
POLICE: Yes.
RS: 590
POLICE: 590?
RS: Yes.
POLICE: Theft [burglary] in the house eh?
RS: No, there’s no theft… they broke a window… there is a mess… there is also a closed door… a mess.
POLICE: Just a moment please.

[Music plays for 5 seconds]
POLICE: Hello?
RS: Yes.
POLICE: So listen, they entered… they broke a window… and how do you know they entered?
RS: It can be seen by the signs… that there are drops… there are blood stains in the bathroom.
POLICE: So they entered… because the [window’s] broken… did they cut themselves breaking the window?
RS: Ehmm… this…

[The call is cut off.]
POLICE: Hello?

2nd 112 Call 12.54pm

POLICE: Carabinieri, Perugia.
RS: Yes hello, I called two seconds ago.
POLICE: Someone has entered the house and broke the window?
RS: Yes.
POLICE: Then they went into the bathroom.
RS: I don’t know, if you come here perhaps…
POLICE: What did they take?
RS: They didn’t take anything, the problem is the closed door, there are bloodstains.
POLICE: There is a closed door. Which door’s closed?
RS: [The door] of one of the flatmates who isn’t here and we don’t know where she is.
POLICE: And there are blood stains outside the door of this flatmate who’s not there?
RS: The blood stains are in the bathroom.
POLICE: Oh in the bathroom. And this door is closed. And this girl, do you have her mobile number, her …?
RS: Yes, yes, we tried to call her but she’s not answering.
POLICE: OK, I’ll send a patrol car now and we’ll check the situation out.
RS: OK.
POLICE: OK?
RS: OK.
POLICE: Goodbye.
RS: Goodbye.

Not one speak up. He is talking with Amanda during the call. Did the PP report they were left alone while the kids huddled in her room?

Nothing corroborates the PP timing.