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The real alien conspiracy

Hans said:
Well they have tons of this types of 'stuff' he might want to try Unexplained Mysteries or the Graham Hancock forums where the weird and unscientific is more appreciated as they get less of it.
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Oh please come to Unexplained Mysteries.
It's pretty much all politics right now and we'd love a good crazy although history thing to dig into.
 
Kid Eager said:
Yes, I can see how solo trawling through the interwebs can arrive at a preconceived conclusion. How's that working out for you?

I don't know what you're doing, but it sure isn't science or research...
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Seeing as he's pretty much described a few episodes of Doctor Who and V, nothe to mention stuff like David Ickes material I don't think he's done much in the way for googling.
Probably just tripping and thinking really hard and then decided he's come up with a totally new idea no one has ever thought of.
 
sonjouten said:
The only Idea i actually seem to be *Poeing is irrational belief without evidence, which compared to most religions is actually more substantiated.
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No, it isn't more substantiated. It's just the same. Religion is all about irrational belief without evidence.

This only seems irrational to you because it doesnt fit your mindset,
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Yes, to a person with a rational mindset it seems irrational. That's because it is irrational.

and also i really do think its hard for people to accept something that came from the same place, with the same resources is more advanced (that humans arent actually God's chosen animal..
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'more advanced' - what does that even mean?

Your problem is that you are replacing an irrational belief in a 'higher power' with an equally irrational belief in a 'more advanced' species. You have just traded one religion for another.

there is really no way of knowing though, obviously im a "devout agnostic", but in looking for some sort of philosophical and spiritual significance, based on my known history of the earth that was the conclusion i came to.
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You won't find any of that here. We only deal in facts and reality, not fantasy.

I dont expect people to share my beliefs.. but i dont think you should excuse the possibility either .
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You shouldn't expect us to share your irrational beliefs, but you should expect us to 'excuse' the possibility. This forum isn't called "International Skeptics' for nothing!
 
sonjouten said:
The only Idea i actually seem to be *Poeing is irrational belief without evidence, which compared to most religions is actually more substantiated. This only seems irrational to you because it doesnt fit your mindset, and also i really do think its hard for people to accept something that came from the same place, with the same resources is more advanced (that humans arent actually God's chosen animal.. well not the christian/jew/muslim god anyways,) there is really no way of knowing though, obviously im a "devout agnostic", but in looking for some sort of philosophical and spiritual significance, based on my known history of the earth that was the conclusion i came to. I dont expect people to share my beliefs.. but i dont think you should excuse the possibility either .
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Then what do you expect? What is the purpose for your post? Are you looking for someone to shoot holes in your argument? If that's the purpose of the post, then first you need some sort of reasoned argument to begin with, perhaps with just a smidgeon of real evidence that supports one or more of your claims...then you might invite some real critique. But you haven't done that--instead, as numerous responses have already pointed out, including the ones explicitly mocking you, you haven't done that. You've simply come up with a loosely grouped assortment of outrageous claims that seem to have been induced by a moment of psychosis, and then you ask for people to take you seriously. How long will it take for you to realize that no one here will take you seriously until you provide something concrete to evaluate. Until then, my claim of you being an alien come here to eat our brains is equally plausible to your story of reptiles living in submarine matchboxes. Get it?
 
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sonjouten said:
This only seems irrational to you because it doesnt fit your mindset...
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No, it seems irrational to me because it is a priori absurd, and you provide no evidence to overcome that. If you're going take issue with my "mindset" because I refuse to believe your drug trip is real, then I'd say the mockery is spot-on.
 
sonjouten said:
but i dont think you should excuse the possibility either .
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And no one here has denied the possibility of all this being true. What we question is the probability, and the reality.

Anything which is not clearly disallowed by the laws of physics is "possible", but that's an incredibly low bar to hurdle on the path to belief. You seem to think it's sufficient, but a large majority of posters here disagree with that. We could waste incredible amounts of time, energy and money believing in all sorts of things, if "possible" was our only criterion.

We only have some much time and treasure to spend in this life, so if you want us to believe something, you've got to come up with a better reason than just "possible".

And while you're at it, it wouldn't hurt if you could can the smug assumption that we're all just incapable of believing in something that is better than humanity. Try actually listening to what people are saying to you, and then crediting us with a little more nuanced system of understanding the Universe than you currently are ascribing to us.
 
stanfr said:
Then what do you expect? What is the purpose for your post? Are you looking for someone to shoot holes in your argument? If that's the purpose of the post, then first you need some sort of reasoned argument to begin with, perhaps with just a smidgeon of real evidence that supports one or more of your claims...then you might invite some real critique. But you haven't done that--instead, as numerous responses have already pointed out, including the ones explicitly mocking you, you haven't done that. You've simply come up with a loosely grouped assortment of outrageous claims that seem to have been induced by a moment of psychosis, and then you ask for people to take you seriously. How long will it take for you to realize that non one here will take you seriously until you provide something concrete to evaluate. Until then, my claim of you being an alien come here to eat our brains is equally plausible to your story of reptiles living in submarine matchboxes. Get it?
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http://www.messagetoeagle.com/contr...was-it-left-by-ancient-aliens-visiting-earth/

Theres actually a grand array of evidence for the "ancient aliens" belief (whether you believe it or not, entirely upto oneself)

All im saying is, if any of it is to believed its likely terrestrial in origin. And considering were all still alive, anything that would make the trip out here would likely being doing so at our peril. To me, another being that is more sophisticated than us because it lived longer to begin with and actually has a historical account of extinction events and learned to adapt to it just seems like the natural evolutionary progression of life.
 
Horatius said:
And no one here has denied the possibility of all this being true. What we question is the probability, and the reality.

Anything which is not clearly disallowed by the laws of physics is "possible", but that's an incredibly low bar to hurdle on the path to belief. You seem to think it's sufficient, but a large majority of posters here disagree with that. We could waste incredible amounts of time, energy and money believing in all sorts of things, if "possible" was our only criterion.

We only have some much time and treasure to spend in this life, so if you want us to believe something, you've got to come up with a better reason than just "possible".

And while you're at it, it wouldn't hurt if you could can the smug assumption that we're all just incapable of believing in something that is better than humanity. Try actually listening to what people are saying to you, and then crediting us with a little more nuanced system of understanding the Universe than you currently are ascribing to us.
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http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

.. its not that i think you all are incapable of thinking it, its just hard for anyone that is self aware to do so (to think that theres a species already among us, with a "similar" history, already more advanced than us). it was hard for me at first too, which is why the natural assumption for people in regards to ufo's is them being "extra-terrestrial." Let's be honest though, life in general is very lazy, not substantially changing unless it needs to, not traveling too far out of the way unless it has to, etc.
 
sonjouten said:
http://www.messagetoeagle.com/contr...was-it-left-by-ancient-aliens-visiting-earth/

Theres actually a grand array of evidence for the "ancient aliens" belief (whether you believe it or not, entirely upto oneself)

All im saying is, if any of it is to believed its likely terrestrial in origin. And considering were all still alive, anything that would make the trip out here would likely being doing so at our peril. To me, another being that is more sophisticated than us because it lived longer to begin with and actually has a historical account of extinction events and learned to adapt to it just seems like the natural evolutionary progression of life.
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The story that goes along with the image is made up, the image itself is a fossil of a type of marine life.
Which is pretty bog standard for Ancient Aliens pundits.
An item is removed from its context, a story is made up to explain it, or the pusher just just waves his hands around in incredulity.
 
sonjouten said:
like i said, i think theyre rather indifferent to us in general...........
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Yay!! Something I can agree with. Yep, they're different all right: we exist, and they are just figments of a sick imagination.
 
sonjouten said:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

.. its not that i think you all are incapable of thinking it, its just hard for anyone that is self aware to do so (to think that theres a species already among us, with a "similar" history, already more advanced than us). it was hard for me at first too, which is why the natural assumption for people in regards to ufo's is them being "extra-terrestrial." Let's be honest though, life in general is very lazy, not substantially changing unless it needs to, not traveling too far out of the way unless it has to, etc.
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Read Shadowsot's response, because it is correct. There are about a dozen unsubstantiated claims on that one page you linked to, and not one shred of scientific evidence. There's not one citation or name listed of all the supposed 'scientists' who supposedly 'investigated' the object in question. Science doesn't work that way.

You are mixing up your arguments. If you are simply asking us whether we think it is more plausible that aliens have visited earth, or that a superior being of terrestrial origin currently inhabits earth, then by all means, take a poll and maybe we can oblige in the speculation. But then what? If you have a specific argument to make, then make it.
 
stanfr said:
Read Shadowsot's response, because it is correct. There are about a dozen unsubstantiated claims on that one page you linked to, and not one shred of scientific evidence. There's not one citation or name listed of all the supposed 'scientists' who supposedly 'investigated' the object in question. Science doesn't work that way.

You are mixing up your arguments. If you are simply asking us whether we think it is more plausible that aliens have visited earth, or that a superior being of terrestrial origin currently inhabits earth, then by all means, take a poll and maybe we can oblige in the speculation. But then what? If you have a specific argument to make, then make it.
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wow, that was actually the most supportive thing you've said on this thread. I just copy pasted that from the first google entry that i seen in all honesty, but you did see some of my points obviously right? It is rather possible that there's superior beings of terrestrial origin "super-terrestrials". escaping detection in our fossil records due to their sophistication in metropolitan design (the natural progression of urbanization.) Reptiliods seemed the most likely simply because of their dominance before the k-t extinction, with the event being a catalyst for evolutionary progress to them. I make alot of assumptions i know, but its not like my belief is entirely illogical.
 
sonjouten said:
wow, that was actually the most supportive thing you've said on this thread. I just copy pasted that from the first google entry that i seen in all honesty
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Exactly, and that sort of shoddy cut-n-pasting doesn't go over very well in a skeptical forum. In the same time it took for you to Google, you could have Googled the name of the person who supposedly 'found' the supposed artifact in the article, and that would have instantly shown you the name was just made up and the whole story was fiction. We prefer fact to fiction here ;)

but you did see some of my points obviously right? It is rather possible that there's superior beings of terrestrial origin "super-terrestrials". escaping detection in our fossil records due to their sophistication in metropolitan design (the natural progression of urbanization.) Reptiliods seemed the most likely simply because of their dominance before the k-t extinction, with the event being a catalyst for evolutionary progress to them.
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Sure, everyone here "sees your point." It's cute speculation. If you have anything concrete to back up any of the conjectures, feel free to enlighten.

I make alot of assumptions i know, but its not like my belief is entirely illogical.
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It's no more illogical than my belief that you are an alien here to eat our brains. ;)
 
"Here's a link that supports my view!"
"Actually that is totally bs."
"Well I just pulled it at random. But there's lots of evidence!"
"Then show it."
"Stop mocking me!"


Oh, and I also remember there was a plot in Star Trek that was similar to this. So that's what, three, four times in pop culture and two fairly common conspiracy theories?
You can't even admit your original idea isn't.
 
sonjouten said:
That's about like saying "common sense is always right"
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No, it isnt.
You have a claim.
To be taken seriously you have to provide some evidence.
So far your argument has been entirely you speculating off of your own "common sense."
Your one bit of "evidence" can be easily dismissed out of hand.
 
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