the "the brain is a radio" analogy

[Navigator]

Well, you asked for the distinction between conscious and subconscious and/or unconscious. If you wanted the distinction between consciousness and self-identity you should have asked for that.

BTAIM are you able to provide those distinctions?

Yes there are many things one can be aware or conscious of, including one’s self-identity. However none of that changes the distinction you asked about.

How is it that you think I was wanting them to change?

I acknowledged the distinctions are there and gave the opinion that they should be considered part of what consciousness is, notwithstanding their tasks are different.

 

[Navigator]

I am aware of no such "requirement". Similarly I'm not aware of any requirement for me to pick my nose, but I just did.

It doesn't matter if you are aware or not. The reason you did is connected to the actions you do. Your self identification with the conscious part of consciousness does not signify that this is all there is to 'who you are' or what you do or why you do it.

Not being aware of the reason does not mean that there isn't a reason.

Well, bodies seem to be a good reason for brains and just central nervous systems in general but again I am aware of no requirement for either or even for those bodies with brains to have what we (or just you) would consider consciousness. Again look to different brain body and cognitive configurations in the animal kingdom.

Are you also not aware that a common argument used by those who believe that consciousness is a creation of the brain is that consciousness exists because there was a requirement for the brain to create it?

What do you think of that argument?

People don't identify as a lot of things that they might technically be classified as, so what? Remember suppression is part of neurological function and thus part of the formation of one's self -image.

What do you think developed first - consciousness or self image?

Again the brain is in the body.

Again, I haven't said it isn't. I said that people don't generally see themselves or one another as 'the brain. Do you?

 

[Navigator]

It is also the case that many people are attributing qualities to consciousness that are actually not present, merely seem to be.

Can you name some of these qualities?

 

[The Man]

BTAIM are you able to provide those distinctions?

BTAIM?

I did provide the distinction, being aware of.

How is it that you think I was wanting them to change?

"...the opinion that they should be considered part of what consciousness is". That tends to obscure the very distinction you sought in a broader meaning.

I acknowledged the distinctions are there and gave the opinion that they should be considered part of what consciousness is, notwithstanding their tasks are different.

That "their tasks are different" has standing in, well, making them distinct in those tasks and what we are conscious of.

 

[The Man]

It doesn't matter if you are aware or not.

So then why ask me?

The reason you did is connected to the actions you do. Your self identification with the conscious part of consciousness does not signify that this is all there is to 'who you are' or what you do or why you do it.

Who said "that this is all there is to 'who you are'". Didn't I just assert up thread about being the sum and even subtraction of parts. Look, if you just want to try to put words in my mouth at least make some effort not to just pull them directly from your arse.

Not being aware of the reason does not mean that there isn't a reason.

Who said "that there isn't a reason"? I also gave a reason up thread. You asked for a requirement, I am aware of no requirement. Sorry I can only give answers I'm aware of.

Are you also not aware that a common argument used by those who believe that consciousness is a creation of the brain is that consciousness exists because there was a requirement for the brain to create it?

Nope.

What do you think of that argument?

Can't say without kowing what that requirement is posited to be.

What do you think developed first - consciousness or self image?

More to the point would be what do you think develops first. You asserted before that memories and experience as included in self-image. Can someone or something that is unconscious form the type of memories and experiences you remark to or is some degree of situational awareness at least a precursor to self-awareness?

If I recall correctly childhood development of categorical self-image (concrete thinking of themselves) is established around 3 or 4 years. Abstract thinking and the ability to consider another's perspective comes sometime later. It's been a while so more recent research might have shifted things.

Again, I haven't said it isn't. I said that people don't generally see themselves or one another as 'the brain. Do you?

Again so what? The brain is part of the central nervous system that permeates our bodies, it's hardly surprising what people do or don't "generally see themselves or one another as".

If it is that important to you I see myself and others as collections of competing and at times conflicting neurological impulses. A happenstance of one of my first high school term papers being on the function of neurons and neurotransmitters.

 

[Navigator]

If it is that important to you I see myself and others as collections of competing and at times conflicting neurological impulses.

Is that all?

 

[The Man]

Is that all?

Well there is usually some blood, snot, crap, bone, bile, proteins, cytoplasm, a bunch of water, nitrogen, CO2, oxygen, trace amounts of noble gasses, DNA, RNA, ribosomes. fat cells, fibrous tissue, stem cells ...

Would you like me to continue or do you have a point you would like to make?

 

[The Sparrow]

Is that all?

A bunch of stardust that has temporarily come together to form a biological mass of tissue and that will eventually return to stardust.

Doesn't mean that along the way I can't experience beauty and wonder.

 

[Navigator]

Would you like me to continue ...

No. I have lost interest in *you*

 

[The Man]

No. I have lost interest in *you*

Ah, now I see where I made my mistake. All this time here I was thinking the real interest should be the subject matter.

 

[Peregrinus]

Why do such threads always devolve into pissing contests?

 

[The Man]

A lack of evolution in the discussion I expect.

 

[Navigator]

Why do such threads always devolve into pissing contests?

It no doubt has something to do with how people view themselves and others... as "collections of competing and at times conflicting neurological impulses" for example.

Maybe that is what 'devolution' is...

*shrugs*

 

[Belz...]

It no doubt has something to do with how people view themselves and others... as "collections of competing and at times conflicting neurological impulses" for example.

Did that description really insult you?

 

[Navigator]

Did that description really insult you?

No.

 

[Nick227]

Can you name some of these qualities?

Sure...

* that of it happening to someone
* that of it being observed by someone

 

[Nick227]

A lack of evolution in the discussion I expect.

Too much evolutionary pressure in the discussion, I'd say.

 

[Nick227]

Well, you asked for the distinction between conscious and subconscious and/or unconscious. If you wanted the distinction between consciousness and self-identity you should have asked for that.

BTAIM are you able to provide those distinctions?

If you're asking what makes some parts of the brain conscious and other parts apparently not, I've heard that the types of neurons and how they interconnect in the cerebellum and cerebrum makes a difference. The cerebellum being usually regarded as more unconscious and the cerebrum more conscious.

I'd be interested to hear more of this if anyone knows.

 

[The Man]

Too much evolutionary pressure in the discussion, I'd say.

Perhaps there is a language barrier as well?


Navigator:

From your previous posts it seems you are using requirement and reason as interchangeable. While a requirement of something is certainly a reason for that thing, a reason is not necessarily a requirement. A reason lacks the explicit necessity imbued in a requirement. So there can be reasons for things without there being a requirement of such.

The 'picking my nose' was exemplary of that distinction. One of the reasons for it, as well as a bit of self-deprecating humor. However, there still was no requirement. I could have done something else or just tried to explain the distinction without an example. So while you were correct there were reasons and deliberate reasons, there certainly was no requirement.

 

[The Man]

If you're asking what makes some parts of the brain conscious and other parts apparently not, I've heard that the types of neurons and how they interconnect in the cerebellum and cerebrum makes a difference. The cerebellum being usually regarded as more unconscious and the cerebrum more conscious.

I'd be interested to hear more of this if anyone knows.

Well as I said before inhibition or suppression of action potential is a function of certain neurons and neurotransmitters. That's the real 'nuts and bolts' of limiting information flow in the brain.


Here's the link to wiki GABA article again.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Aminobutyric_acid