Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Well, Vixen, how about you answer this first: How do you know Amanda is a sociopath and doesn't have close relationships with people? Think about this really hard.

Also, got a chuckle out of this



What were you saying about soundbites Vixen? Where have you heard that Knox supporters are paid shills? I seem to have heard that once or twice in the past....

(What's awesome is I don't even know if Vixen is aware she has been co-opted by the Anti-Amanda She-Devil campaign.)

How quickly you descended into invective, NotEvenWrong. It is a fact Curt Knox hired a PR company even before an attorney, within two days of Amanda being arrested. The company, Gogerty-Marriott, is based in Seattle and its PR consultants have been busy writing hundreds of reviews for Amazon and faithfully trying to block any comments that point to Amanda's guilt, sending out press releases to the US media and only allowing interviews with pro-innocence media. We can be sure, there are probably a few busily writing away here, as well, as that is their agreed tactic.

Although G-M wound up, the PR is still going strong.

 

[Vixen]

I see them focusing on Amanda out of ethnocentric culturalism. Amanda was not only a foreigner to them her behavior was foreign. Amanda went out of her way to help the police and the police were taken aback. People didn't behave like that in Italy. She stood out so they zoomed in on her.

The fact is both Amanda and Raffaele's stories were consistent other than the story they got Amanda to tell them in the middle of the night on 5th/6th. You know, when they broke her and got her to tell them the story they knew to be true, but wasn't actually.

That's arrant nonsense. Italy has a very strong link to North America (why, they even introduced the mafia ). When I visited Canada, the tour guide told us Italians made up one of the biggest ethnic groups after Asians (in N America, Asian means Chinese), with over 450K in Toronto alone.

It is rubbish to accuse the cops of racism against Americans. Sure individual cops can be, but police have nothing to gain from not pursuing the correct perps. What would be the point on picking on an American - out of about 12K in Perugia alone IIRC - on a scale of one to stupid, that would be STUPID.

 

[Vixen]

Yes: a person could be forgiven for believing that a prosecuting magistrate in the Italian judiciary was improperly giving out material to an amateur website which happened to be useful to his purposes (owing to its highly partisan and pro-prosecution stance). Heaven forbid that could actually happen though!

Not like the PIP filching autopsy pictures for immoral purpose.

 

[Vixen]

You make me sick. You accuse any and everyone who supports Amanda as dishonest and with ulterior motives. A large community of people gave of their time and money to support Amanda. The tabloids have been flashing cash in Seattle for any juicy story to anyone and they've come up with zilch.

Fellow students of Amanda from Seattle Prep held car washes and fundraisers. Madison Paxton flew to Italy and visited with her every day. The chaplain priest at the prison is very close to her and Amanda is an atheist I don't know Amanda, but I know people who do. She is loved here in Seattle. They are fiercely loyal to her.

She is not a sociopath. When do you acknowledge the facts and accept that your perception of her is false?

It's human nature to be supportive of members of your community. It doesn't prove an ability to form close friends. Sure there was Madison Paxton (where is she now???) and maybe a few lads she slept with once, but compared to Mez, she had no real friends in Perugia as of the time she was arrested.

 

[Vixen]

The New Scientist has a piece on sleep deprivation and false confessions.

While not needed now in the Sollecito/Knox cases, it will be one more finger in the dike of wrongful convictions....

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2076725-sleep-deprivation-linked-to-false-confession-in-milestone-study/

Guilters will have apoplexy when they read this......

​

Moral is: try not to lie to police.

 

[Bill Williams]

How quickly you descended into invective, NotEvenWrong. It is a fact Curt Knox hired a PR company even before an attorney, within two days of Amanda being arrested. The company, Gogerty-Marriott, is based in Seattle and its PR consultants have been busy writing hundreds of reviews for Amazon and faithfully trying to block any comments that point to Amanda's guilt, sending out press releases to the US media and only allowing interviews with pro-innocence media. We can be sure, there are probably a few busily writing away here, as well, as that is their agreed tactic.

Although G-M wound up, the PR is still going strong.

............. says the lady with 3,733 posts since April 2015 on this thread alone! Hoots!

 

[Vixen]

............. says the lady with 3,733 posts since April 2015 on this thread alone! Hoots!

Take the beam from thine own eye, >9.4K posts yourself! Koo Koo, Hoots!

Your constant appeals to the mods to restrict the discussion to PIP's only is equally irrational.

It is clear to me, you know perfectly well the PIP story about an interrupted burglar is pure fable, in the hope it will become accepted folklore. It's odd people are desperate to protect anti-social behaviour and disorder. Why, Bill?

 

[acbytesla]

This is yet another one of the myths you PIP love to tell yourselves. The stuff the defense were demanding be disclosed went far beyond the reasonable or conventional. It's the old tactic of asking for more and more pedantic material. It's no surprise the judge threw out the application. It was just a time-wasting, bullying and unreasonable demand, which would never end, even to the extent of wanting to see the content of all the lab's rubbish bins, and then a trip to the landfill to dig out shredded paper. Enough already!

I ts not a myth, it's a fact. No one did. Saying it's a myth doesn't make it one. Just like saying a 7 year old beat a International Chess Master or that you're academically literate.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

How quickly you descended into invective, NotEvenWrong. It is a fact Curt Knox hired a PR company even before an attorney, within two days of Amanda being arrested. The company, Gogerty-Marriott, is based in Seattle and its PR consultants have been busy writing hundreds of reviews for Amazon and faithfully trying to block any comments that point to Amanda's guilt, sending out press releases to the US media and only allowing interviews with pro-innocence media. We can be sure, there are probably a few busily writing away here, as well, as that is their agreed tactic.

Although G-M wound up, the PR is still going strong.

Internet shills, world renowned forensic scientists, former FBI agents... everyone is on the pay roll!!! And all with links to satanism and devil worship. It's a good thing we are all funded by the heads of the Italian mafia. Where else could we possibly get all the money to pay everyone??

Or maybe, just maybe, Gogerty Marriott was hired to defend Amanda from the slander and libel Mignini and the police were using to poison the well against her to get a conviction with manufactured evidence, and you are now unwittingly a part of this PR campaign because you have no idea how to objectively analyze evidence and thus think Amanda is actually a witch sorceress who was involved in a pagan sex murder (with links to satanism) without leaving a trace of herself at the crime scene.

Seriously Vixen, this is how misinformation gets spread. You have been co-opted by a group of people whose intent is/was to smear an innocent woman (and Raffaele, by proxy). And you just flood the thread with nonsense because you have been brainwashed.

 

[acbytesla]

How quickly you descended into invective, NotEvenWrong. It is a fact Curt Knox hired a PR company even before an attorney, within two days of Amanda being arrested. The company, Gogerty-Marriott, is based in Seattle and its PR consultants have been busy writing hundreds of reviews for Amazon and faithfully trying to block any comments that point to Amanda's guilt, sending out press releases to the US media and only allowing interviews with pro-innocence media. We can be sure, there are probably a few busily writing away here, as well, as that is their agreed tactic.

Although G-M wound up, the PR is still going strong.

Just because they hired a PR firm to help with interview requests does not mean everyone is a paid shill. But of course you need that fantasy.

 

[acbytesla]

That's arrant nonsense. Italy has a very strong link to North America (why, they even introduced the mafia ). When I visited Canada, the tour guide told us Italians made up one of the biggest ethnic groups after Asians (in N America, Asian means Chinese), with over 450K in Toronto alone.

It is rubbish to accuse the cops of racism against Americans. Sure individual cops can be, but police have nothing to gain from not pursuing the correct perps. What would be the point on picking on an American - out of about 12K in Perugia alone IIRC - on a scale of one to stupid, that would be STUPID.

No one is accusing the police of being racist. And reading that into my post is STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!

 

[Grinder]

And on the "satanic rites" matter, there appears to be a certain amount of credible evidence that Mignini originally intended to include this as part of imputed motive, but that others in the prosecutors' office dissuaded him from doing so. In addition, there's no doubt that in the early days (early-mid November 2007) many journalists were writing about satanic rituals, satanic orgies, the link to Halloween and so on, and it appears that a lot of this almost certainly came via briefings from police and/or prosecutors.

While I won't say no use of satanic was in reports, I sure can't find them. I'm talking early on not after certain people accused Mignini of saying it.

There long has been a meme that Comodi refused to go forward with some rite or other theory but I have never seen proof from a credible source.

 

[Grinder]

http://www.raffaelesollecito.org/?page_id=612&lang=en

Here is Raffaele's site where I saw the Mignini document. Who had it first and distributed it freely I don't know. But both sides had access to it. I may have seen it even earlier in Charlie Wilkes list of documents.

Thanks but this doesn't address the early days but rather the end of 2009. It also doesn't specifically use the word 'rite'. Since the murder happened on the night it did, I don't think the quote is far fetched.

“It should be emphasized that, in any case, for those pathologically addicted to the commission of sex and violence, it is not far-fetched to connect the project to the tradition of Halloween, because if it is true that the night between October 31 and November 1 was passed (and Meredith had spent with her ​​friends and fellows), it is equally true that, at 9 pm circa of the first of November and for the next three hours, it was still the day of All Saints’ Day and what you do not was able to achieve on the eve night of Holiday of the Saints, could be realized in the night to pass from the last one to the “Holiday of the deads”. and pag 49 starting from line 17: “Moreover, the three, and especially Sollecito, were all addicted to the suggestions of erotic – mudering “culture”, which has previosly been discussed and that night it was still the day of the Holiday of Saints, “inheritor” of the Catholic Samhain Celtic New Year, with all the implications that have their central point in the Holiday eve, that is the night between October 31 and November 1.”​

 

[bagels]

It is clear to me, you know perfectly well the PIP story about an interrupted burglar is pure fable, in the hope it will become accepted folklore.

It's not a story, it's well supported in the evidence. Rudy is captured on CCTV alone before any plans by Amanda can be made. He's scouting his burglary target. There's a break-in at the cottage featuring a rock smashed window above climbable metal bars with clothes scattered about the floor. Rudy was just connected to a break-in blocks away at a law office with a rock smashed window above climbable metal bars with clothes scattered about the floor. The toilet with Rudy's feces is unflushed, compatible with him sitting on the toilet after breaking in and being interrupted by Meredith's unexpected return and not being able to flush without announcing his presence, which Rudy all but confirms with his every story recalling the detail of being on the toilet when somebody enters the cottage.

Notice how every piece of evidence corroborates the theory. This is how evidence works. The PGP on the other hand don't even have a theory, much less one corroborated in the evidence.

To pretend like the burglar scenario is a "story" that was just made up in outrageous fashion is a sign of gross delusion. If you can't see it, it is cognitive bias on your part.

I agree with Grinder, this would be a far more interesting discussion if the PGP stopped pretending like there was a strong legal case to be made, and accepted that if the students are guilty they luckily or skillfully pulled off a near perfect murder, and discussed how they might have managed to accomplish that. The first thing to do would be to drop the garbage (the kitchen knife, curatolo, quintavalle, nara, koko) since you're no longer bound by the ridiculous Italian courts, and try to move on from there.

 

[acbytesla]

It's human nature to be supportive of members of your community. It doesn't prove an ability to form close friends. Sure there was Madison Paxton (where is she now???) and maybe a few lads she slept with once, but compared to Mez, she had no real friends in Perugia as of the time she was arrested.

Madison and her were roommates for 3 years. They are still close friends.

Why do you feel the need to compare Meredith and Amanda so much? Their experiences are bound to be different. Why put everything through some selective filter? Amanda and Meredith attended different schools in Italy. Meredith had been living there for about 20 days longer. Amanda took a job.

Do you really believe that the British virgins were Meredith's friends at this stage? Or people from back home in which she was in the process of getting to know? BTW, Amanda was friends with Meredith.

 

[Bill Williams]

............. says the lady with 3,733 posts since April 2015 on this thread alone! Hoots!

Take the beam from thine own eye, >9.4K posts yourself! Koo Koo, Hoots!

Once again, please take advantage of the arrow icon to backtrack along this thread. Are you then admitting to, yourself, being part of a paid disinformation campaign, as you accuse frequent posters here?

If you did I would not believe you.

Your constant appeals to the mods to restrict the discussion to PIP's only is equally irrational.

It's a good thing, then, that I've not requested that of the mods here. I've asked the mods to adhere to the "brand" of ISF, which is skepticism and evidence-based postings.

Unless, it is you making the equivalence that evidence-based posting is something that distinguishes PIP's from PGP's! C'mon, Vixen, even you have to give that one a hoots! You've booted another one!

It is clear to me, you know perfectly well the PIP story about an interrupted burglar is pure fable, in the hope it will become accepted folklore. It's odd people are desperate to protect anti-social behaviour and disorder. Why, Bill?

Huh!?

An interrupted burglary is a theory, yes, but one that adheres more closely to Occam's Razor than the conspiracy theory you have to invent because you accept the evidence-less word of the original investigators that it was a staged break-in.

But once again, congratulations - topic drift much!

 

[Vixen]

I ts not a myth, it's a fact. No one did. Saying it's a myth doesn't make it one. Just like saying a 7 year old beat a International Chess Master or that you're academically literate.

Please quit planting straw men.

 

[christianahannah]

Thanks but this doesn't address the early days but rather the end of 2009. It also doesn't specifically use the word 'rite'. Since the murder happened on the night it did, I don't think the quote is far fetched.

“It should be emphasized that, in any case, for those pathologically addicted to the commission of sex and violence, it is not far-fetched to connect the project to the tradition of Halloween, because if it is true that the night between October 31 and November 1 was passed (and Meredith had spent with her ​​friends and fellows), it is equally true that, at 9 pm circa of the first of November and for the next three hours, it was still the day of All Saints’ Day and what you do not was able to achieve on the eve night of Holiday of the Saints, could be realized in the night to pass from the last one to the “Holiday of the deads”. and pag 49 starting from line 17: “Moreover, the three, and especially Sollecito, were all addicted to the suggestions of erotic – mudering “culture”, which has previosly been discussed and that night it was still the day of the Holiday of Saints, “inheritor” of the Catholic Samhain Celtic New Year, with all the implications that have their central point in the Holiday eve, that is the night between October 31 and November 1.”​

No. It is the same document just misidentified (I believe it is Raffaele who is in error but I could be wrong). I believe the Injustice site has this document too but since I am not a member I cannot see the document. If it is the same document as these two they have identified it as Mignini's preliminary summary remarks.

Raffaele document:
http://www.raffaelesollecito.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/requisitoria-PM.pdf

Meredith Wiki document:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...10-18-Notes-Mignini-for-closing-arguments.pdf

 

[Vixen]

Internet shills, world renowned forensic scientists, former FBI agents... everyone is on the pay roll!!! And all with links to satanism and devil worship. It's a good thing we are all funded by the heads of the Italian mafia. Where else could we possibly get all the money to pay everyone??

Or maybe, just maybe, Gogerty Marriott was hired to defend Amanda from the slander and libel Mignini and the police were using to poison the well against her to get a conviction with manufactured evidence, and you are now unwittingly a part of this PR campaign because you have no idea how to objectively analyze evidence and thus think Amanda is actually a witch sorceress who was involved in a pagan sex murder (with links to satanism) without leaving a trace of herself at the crime scene.

Seriously Vixen, this is how misinformation gets spread. You have been co-opted by a group of people whose intent is/was to smear an innocent woman (and Raffaele, by proxy). And you just flood the thread with nonsense because you have been brainwashed.

NotEvenWrong, please can you make an effort to not misquote me. At no time have I said it was a pagan sex murder or that any witches were involved. Given the murder happened around halloween, of course detectives have to consider a possibility of people taking role playing a bit too seriously. People do murder for trivial reason, for example the movie Scream spawned thrill killings http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/18/filmnews.film.

It is a logical fallacy to claim it is not possible that the kids could have committed such a crime. It simply doesn't follow that it is logically true.

Nice kids do commit crimes with no motive that make sense to the rest of us:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php..._cases_of_nice_girls_who_killed_with_little_/

 

[Grinder]

No. It is the same document just misidentified (I believe it is Raffaele who is in error but I could be wrong). I believe the Injustice site has this document too but since I am not a member I cannot see the document. If it is the same document as these two they have identified it as Mignini's preliminary summary remarks.

Raffaele document:
http://www.raffaelesollecito.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/requisitoria-PM.pdf

Meredith Wiki document:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...10-18-Notes-Mignini-for-closing-arguments.pdf

Well I have no idea so I will defer to you.