Continuation Part 20: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[acbytesla]

It was planned and premeditated, no matter how loosely. Premeditation can take literally nanoseconds. There is nothing that says premeditation has to be decided days in advance.

While it is true that a premeditation can take place in only a few momennts, the evidence you use to suggest it was premeditated happened at least an hour before the murder. Ie: the switching off the phones, downloading Amelie, transporting the kitchen knife.

As I said before, your argument is logically impaired.

 

[Grinder]

You need to grasp that psychopaths are not normal so it is useless to use 'normal' as a term of reference.

You have made that perfectly clear.

 

[Vixen]

Let me guess, "published" in arXiv or something similar that actually does not have a formal peer review process and papers are just submitted electronically?

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about with the peer review process when it comes to the (vast, vast) majority of rigorous scientific journals. They are peer reviewed BEFORE publication, and are accepted or rejected based on quality and content. Scientific publication is far more rigorous than "wellllll, it's all a matter of opinion and personal interpretation on these forensic science thingies. I believe the prosecution lab tech over empirical forensic science papers published in top journals any ol' day!"

Er, no, it is a well-known university in Scotland and it actually took almost 18 months before it came out after having being sent around various academics for comments and suggested amendments. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

[acbytesla]

By this definition all acts are premeditated.

Yeah nanoseconds, is a monstrous exaggeration. Vixen is talking out of both sides of her mouth. She says they did all these things setting up an alibi and gathering tools for the killing then says the premeditation took nanoseconds.

 

[Grinder]

It would be so much more interesting if the PGP would drop the witnesses lacking in credibility and bogus forensics and make their case without being handicapped by the work of ILE. Be realistic and have the TOD no later than 10 pm. Explain where Meredith consumed two or more drinks after 6 pm. Explain how footprints were left without any indication the feet had been in blood. Realistically deal with the fact that the kitchen knife doesn't fit as the murder weapon, including the fact the original forensics showed it was done by a pocket knfe.

 

[acbytesla]

E

A sociopath doesn't form close relations with people so there is no prerequisite for her to have any deep relationship with either Rudy or Raff, or indeed even the murder victim. It was no problem for Bonnie and Clyde to shoot dead random policemen in their way. They were just cardboard cutouts to these people, not people with homes and family.

You need to grasp that psychopaths are not normal so it is useless to use 'normal' as a term of reference.

You absolutely refuse to open your eyes. You say that Amanda is a sociopath and that sociopaths don't have close relationships with people. Have you paid any attention at all to Amanda Knox? She has kept close relationships with countless people. Many since she was a child. Her friends are fiercely loyal. Sociopaths don't have friends like that. At best they have are good time acquaintances. Not people who stick by them.

You weave an interesting tale but it's all a bunch of nonsense with zero relationship to the truth.

 

[acbytesla]

6

It would be so much more interesting if the PGP would drop the witnesses lacking in credibility and bogus forensics and make their case without being handicapped by the work of ILE. Be realistic and have the TOD no later than 10 pm. Explain where Meredith consumed two or more drinks after 6 pm. Explain how footprints were left without any indication the feet had been in blood. Realistically deal with the fact that the kitchen knife doesn't fit as the murder weapon, including the fact the original forensics showed it was done by a pocket knfe.

C'mon Grinder, if they did that they would have nothing and they wouldn't be guilters. Without Toto Nara and the knife, all they would have would be that bra clasp and let's face it, that is suspect too.

 

[Bill Williams]

It was planned and premeditated, no matter how loosely. Premeditation can take literally nanoseconds. There is nothing that says premeditation has to be decided days in advance.

While it is true that a premeditation can take place in only a few momennts, the evidence you use to suggest it was premeditated happened at least an hour before the murder. Ie: the switching off the phones, downloading Amelie, transporting the kitchen knife.

As I said before, your argument is logically impaired.

If Vixen did not have strawman arguments........

Why dive into generalities, especially generalities which no one has claimed except for the more rabid guilter?

Look at how premeditation fits in to the ever changing prosecution/convicting court theories:

- sex ritual associated with Hallowe'en: probably premeditated or at least alleged so.
- sex-game gone wrong: no premeditation be presumably the onset of the "game" was consensual.
- the boys wanted to impress/compete for Amanda: no premeditation because it got out of hand
- choice of evil: the last second joining in with Rudy's crime
- no reason at all: it just happened because
- pooh in the toilet: a result of an argument over cleanliness
- rent money: a result of an argument over rent money​

These are the various motives as pitched by the various prosecutions/convicting courts which were all over the map and pieced together with how that court/prosecutor pitched premeditation.

What this speaks to is that no one, really, knew HOW to fit Raffaele and/or Amanda into this crime when laid side by side with the evidence.

 

[Vixen]

By this definition all acts are premeditated.

If you go along armed, that is usually the court's inference.

 

[Vixen]

My God. Have you EVER said anything right? Ever?

Premeditation means rational consideration of the method, etc. i.e. Consideration of the consequences and trying to find the best way to succeed and/or "get away with it". It doesn't mean "oh hey I have a knife in my hand let's kill this girl with this burglar I don't know for no reason at all STABBY STABBY"

Ruth Ellis, the last woman hanged in the UK, for murder, when asked why she took a loaded gun with her to confront her lover, she replied, "I wanted to kill him".


Black cap.

 

[Vixen]

You of course have nailed exactly why it is impossible to prove Amanda's involvement. The ONLY piece of physical evidence theoretically connecting her to the crime is Stefanoni supposedly finding Amanda's DNA on the handle and Meredith's DNA on the blade of that Kitchen knife That's why as much as I hate Mignini, I hate Stefanoni 100 times more. It's clear by her actions that she is up to no good.

That ridiculous kitchen knife that doesn't match the wounds or the bloody stain on the sheet. Who's use essentially requires the murder to be an act of premeditation. A premeditation that doesn't fit any of the other facts.

This is what happens to every guilt theory. They try and make it fit to one piece of evidence only to find that now it doesn't fit elsewhere. Like Curatolo, if you use him to say that Amanda and Raffaele were at the Piazza Grimana you have to deal with the fact that old Toto provides them with an alibi. You have to dismiss that Quintavalle's testimony is not only disputed his own words to the police after the murder but his own employees.

Vixen's mind is closed to any rational thinking so even 20 years from now, she'll be insisting that Amanda killed Meredith..

Has it ever crossed your mind that Stefanoni and her team were perfectly objective in her findings and it is your theory of a "conspiracy to frame the kids" which is absurd?

 

[Mike1711]

Ruth Ellis, the last woman hanged in the UK, for murder, when asked why she took a loaded gun with her to confront her lover, she replied, "I wanted to kill him".


Black cap.

....and this was done in nanoseconds?

 

[Mike1711]

Has it ever crossed your mind that Stefanoni and her team were perfectly objective in her findings and it is your theory of a "conspiracy to frame the kids" which is absurd?

It's absolute fact that Stefanoni did not follow correct procedures and results from putting rubbish in is getting rubbish out. QED.

End of....

 

[acbytesla]

Has it ever crossed your mind that Stefanoni and her team were perfectly objective in her findings and it is your theory of a "conspiracy to frame the kids" which is absurd?

Her actions prove she wasn't. And I never said there was a conspiracy. Corruption, yes. Conspiracy, no.

She conveniently omitted the TMB test results until she was cross examined. Her notes show that she manipulated the tests. And hid her work product from the defense to this day. This shows she was sloppy dishonest and corrupt.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Er, no, it is a well-known university in Scotland and it actually took almost 18 months before it came out after having being sent around various academics for comments and suggested amendments. Sorry to disappoint you.

So you are saying it took ~18 months of peer review before it was published, and your previous claim that it is only "open to peer review" when it is published and thus there are "differences of opinion and interpretation of results" was complete nonsense? You must then agree that the publishing process of academic journal articles is far more rigorous than a simple lab tech's opinion on the matter, so if a lab tech contradicts empirical published results we should likely go with the published results.

Remind me what you were saying about luminol and TMB again? Something about footprints because... something something let's ignore the published information on TMB because we know Amanda is guilty so the academic literature must be wrong?

 

[Vixen]

So you are saying it took ~18 months of peer review before it was published, and your previous claim that it is only "open to peer review" when it is published and thus there are "differences of opinion and interpretation of results" was complete nonsense? You must then agree that the publishing process of academic journal articles is far more rigorous than a simple lab tech's opinion on the matter, so if a lab tech contradicts empirical published results we should likely go with the published results.

Remind me what you were saying about luminol and TMB again? Something about footprints because... something something let's ignore the published information on TMB because we know Amanda is guilty so the academic literature must be wrong?

Of course there can still be differences of opinion. That's the whole point of academic research.

IIRC it was the Rome Scientific Forensics team who handled this and I have every confidence their forensic scientists are amongst the best of their generation. It is an insult to their expertise and professionalism to claim they are 'bent' and attempted to frame Amanda and Raff.

 

[acbytesla]

Of course there can still be differences of opinion. That's the whole point of academic research.

IIRC it was the Rome Scientific Forensics team who handled this and I have every confidence their forensic scientists are amongst the best of their generation. It is an insult to their expertise and professionalism to claim they are 'bent' and attempted to frame Amanda and Raff.

Yet there has been many a forensic expert who say their investigation was anything but professional. Maybe it is how they practice their profession that is the real insult.

 

[Vixen]

Hey Vixen,
Here is a news article by John Follain, a prominent guilter loonie, printed back in 2009. Care to comment?



http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/world_news/article144106.ece

See? Not even published in America. With their evil lizard people PR campaigns.

Did you ever think about accepting reality for what it is? It makes things a lot easier in the long run, even if the cognitive dissonance is painful at first.

That doesn't say anything about 'satanic rituals'.

I think Mignini's earliest best judgement is very close to the truth of the matter.

 

[acbytesla]

That doesn't say anything about 'satanic rituals'.

I think Mignini's earliest best judgement is very close to the truth of the matter.

You're dancing. Do you actually think this is the act of a mature intellect?

Quit debating and start thinking. Consider the evidence rationally instead of how to try and win an argument. Focus instead on humbly learning.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Of course there can still be differences of opinion. That's the whole point of academic research.

IIRC it was the Rome Scientific Forensics team who handled this and I have every confidence their forensic scientists are amongst the best of their generation. It is an insult to their expertise and professionalism to claim they are 'bent' and attempted to frame Amanda and Raff.

Well, I don't know if I would call it "attempting to frame". More like "bolster weak evidence to get the bad guy because they "knew" she was guilty".

There is an easy way to check to see if they did this. Did Stephanoni and the investigators follow standard scientific protocols for evidence collection and analysis, Vixen? What did the court appointed independent DNA experts have to say on this? What about world renowned experts such as Gill, Budowle, Hampikian, etc.? What about the academic literature on, for example, LCN DNA analysis?

Side question: Do you believe the Rome Scientific Forensic team is/was infallible? So if a whole bunch of experts and literature suggests that they processed the evidence incorrectly, the lab techs win? Also, what makes you think they are the "best of their generation"? That seems like a ridiculous statement to make, particularly with the criticism that has been levied against them by literally every single expert who has looked at Steph's procedures. And anyway, it's not like they have forensic scientist competitions and the Rome team was crowned the winner. What on earth are you talking about?