Please, Please, Please Go To a Real Doctor

[Gord_in_Toronto]

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/model-katie-death-fall-photo-shoot-article-1.2521755

Blond bombshell model Katie May’s fatal stroke happened after she fell during a photo shoot then visited a chiropractor twice, her friends said Friday.

The 34-year-old Playboy and Sports Illustrated vixen known as the “Queen of Snapchat” died in Los Angeles Thursday, three days after suffering a catastrophic stroke, officials in the L.A. County Medical Examiner-Coroner’s office confirmed. May's friends admired both her love for her 7-year-old daughter Mia and her work ethic as a social media sensation and businesswoman, they told the Daily News.

 

[Maestro]

I seriously hope they go after the chiropractor.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Katie May @Ms_katiemay
Pinched a nerve in my neck on a Photoshoot and got adjusted this morning. It really hurts! Any home remedy suggestions loves? XOXO
4:36 PM - 29 Jan 2016

 

[marplots]

She did go to a "real" doctor. She had a stroke at the hospital and died there - under the care of "real" doctors. It's medicine, not magic.

 

[Bob001]

She did go to a "real" doctor. She had a stroke at the hospital and died there - under the care of "real" doctors. It's medicine, not magic.

The story says she was injured during a photo shoot and went to a chiropractor. She didn't get to real doctors -- no need for quotes -- until after her chiropractor finished with her -- and apparently after she had a stroke.

Blond bombshell model Katie May’s fatal stroke happened after she fell during a photo shoot then visited a chiropractor twice, her friends said Friday .....
The American Heart Association and the American Stroke Association found a relationship between chiropractic manipulation of the neck and a type of arterial tear that can lead to strokes in research published in 2014.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

She did go to a "real" doctor. She had a stroke at the hospital and died there - under the care of "real" doctors. It's medicine, not magic.

It is my understanding she fell and injured her neck. She went to the hospital and the hospital released her with a diagnosis of a pinched nerve. Then she went to the chiropractor a couple times in later days for treatment of that pinched nerve... an "adjustment" which apparently didn't help. So she went back to the hospital Monday and had a stroke on Monday. I am unclear if the stroke was before or after entering the hospital the second time. Do you have a source? Then she died on Thursday about a week after the original fall.

Sounds like everybody did their best but it was one of those freak accidents that is hard to diagnose.

 

[marplots]

The story says she was injured during a photo shoot and went to a chiropractor. She didn't get to real doctors -- no need for quotes -- until after her chiropractor finished with her -- and apparently after she had a stroke.

Did we read the same article? Yes, she had a stroke after seeing the chiropractor. Apparently, a while after - it's not actually clear how long it was.

Is the assumption that the chiropractor caused the stroke? From what I read, she had a fatal stroke at the hospital and died there as well.

It is handy to attach bad things to categories of people I don't like (I don't like chiropractors), but I usually need more than a post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

 

[marplots]

It is my understanding she fell and injured her neck. She went to the hospital and the hospital released her with a diagnosis of a pinched nerve. Then she went to the chiropractor a couple times in later days for treatment of that pinched nerve... an "adjustment" which apparently didn't help. So she went back to the hospital Monday and had a stroke on Monday. I am unclear if the stroke was before or after entering the hospital the second time. Do you have a source? Then she died on Thursday about a week after the original fall.

Sounds like everybody did their best but it was one of those freak accidents that is hard to diagnose.

The only thing I've read on it is the article mentioned in the OP. It's pretty clear she had a second stroke at the hospital which killed her.

" Passanisi said her friend began ailing Monday afternoon, hours after she went back to the chiropractor a second time. May could barely move on the way to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center and began vomiting in the waiting room. She recovered from one stroke but suffered another one overnight. By Tuesday afternoon, she was brain dead.

Medical staff took May off life support at 4:44 p.m. Thursday with family and friends present, Passanisi said."

 

[Red Baron Farms]

The only thing I've read on it is the article mentioned in the OP. It's pretty clear she had a second stroke at the hospital which killed her.

" Passanisi said her friend began ailing Monday afternoon, hours after she went back to the chiropractor a second time. May could barely move on the way to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center and began vomiting in the waiting room. She recovered from one stroke but suffered another one overnight. By Tuesday afternoon, she was brain dead.

Medical staff took May off life support at 4:44 p.m. Thursday with family and friends present, Passanisi said."

OK So from what I have read then that means hospital twice and chiropractor twice and 2 strokes. So unless it comes out the Chiropractor actually caused the injury by too aggressively treating a pinched nerve, it comes down to the injury caused the damage to the artery that ultimately caused the stroke. Sad but I don't see how anyone could actually blame either her or any of the people treating her.....Not at this point anyway...with what has been reported at least.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I seriously hope they go after the chiropractor.

The chiropractor can cure any and all diseases, illnesses, injuries, or maladies. And if he can't he's still off the hook because the laws are written to protect them.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

http://www.people.com/article/katie-may-model-stroke-saw-chiropractor

Playboy Model Saw Chiropractor for Neck Pain Prior to Deadly Stroke but Not Medical Doctor, Family Says

 

[Myriad]

And what would a medical doctor have done for non-debilitating neck pain? Prescribe a cervical collar, order angiograms?

Or given a referral to an osteopath or orthpedist, next available appointment six weeks from now?

Or advise taking some ibuprofen and "let's see how it goes?"

 

[Blue Wode]

Interesting comment from an MD/surgeon on Edzard Ernst's blog:

What very likely happened is this:

She fell and sprained her neck sometime before friday, Jan. 29. She went to the ER and was examined properly and released as is usual with simple, uncomplicated neck sprain. The hospital is in for a fat liability issue if they do not confidently rule out any sign of complication. They said in the newsreel [ http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...34-according-to-multiple-reports/?intcmp=hpff ] she was released from the hospital. She was still hurting on friday morning after having been “adjusted” as she says in her tweet at 10:30. On monday she is brought in with a massive stroke and dies on thursday.

Now please tell us dear gentle and well trained chiropractor friends, whom does an american celebrity go to for getting “adjusted”??

A chiropractor of course.

She went to see a chiropractor who probably wanted to perform well for this celebrity beauty whom he most likely made sure would return for many more money bringing “adjustments” in the following days. And he most likeley wanted to make sure she would tell all her beautiful friends that he had done a miracle for her (self limiting) neck injury, so he made a big deal of it. (I have been told about and seen scores of YT videos with such exercises in doctor bashing, chiro cheering blabber)

When the chiropractor went through his theatrical adjustment act, the VA was unduly stretched, causing an intimal tear. The circulation wasn’t compromised right away. It still hurt when she tweeted about it the same morning, so the chiropractor certainly didn’t effectuate any miracle as far as her neck sprain and it may even have felt worse. In her tweet on friday morning, after the “adjustment” she asked for help for the pain!

I find it likely that she went back to the chiro on monday, but of course this is still not clear. A thrombus (blood clot) may well have been developing in her vertebral artery(-ies?) over the weekend and when it dislodged, perhaps by a repeat “adjustment”, it totally blocked the circulation to central, important parts of her brain. Death was the outcome.

Link: http://edzardernst.com/2016/02/cata...iropractic-spinal-manipulation/#comment-74249

Also interesting is that a member of her family claims that she didn't need to have her neck adjusted and that it killed her:
http://cdanews.com/2016/02/playboy-...rom-a-stroke-after-second-chiropractor-visit/

Other celebrities who have experienced strokes after chiropractic include actress Sharon Stone http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/1944472.stm
and actor Kevin (Hercules) Sorbo http://doubtfulnews.com/2011/10/actor-kevin-sorbos-trouble-with-chiropractic/

 

[aleCcowaN]

It specifically says (bold mine)

«The American Heart Association and the American Stroke Association found a relationship between chiropractic manipulation of the neck and a type of arterial tear that can lead to strokes in research published in 2014. The study didn't find a direct cause-and-effect between chiropractic care and strokes but said providers should inform patients before any treatments»

I strongly suggest posters to research what a carotid dissection is and associate it with the medical staff taking off May's life support after two strokes and subsequent brain death.

I would also say there's nothing to discuss here from this luctual episode as information is incomplete -and there's useless data galore- and the topic too specialized.

 

[Blue Wode]

There are hundreds of catastrophic complications after chiropractic on record:
http://edzardernst.com/2013/08/anot...ith-the-help-of-a-chiropractor/#comment-42493

Yet most chiropractors deny there's a problem because causation can't be proved. Most also don't agree that the risks of neck manipulation outweigh its benefits. It's this attitude that seems to have ensured that there are no reliable chiropractic adverse event reporting systems in place anywhere in the world. Indeed, in the U.S. chiropractors don't have to report them because of a loophole:
http://www.ebm-first.com/chiropract...chiropractic-stroke-awareness-group-csag.html

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And what would a medical doctor have done for non-debilitating neck pain? Prescribe a cervical collar, order angiograms?

Or given a referral to an osteopath or orthpedist, next available appointment six weeks from now?

Or advise taking some ibuprofen and "let's see how it goes?"

Or investigated to find out why she was in pain in a timely manner? It does happen that way as well as the Eeyore Mode some folks like to put forward.

 

[Blue Wode]

there's nothing to discuss here

I'd say there is:
http://www.ebm-first.com/component/finder/search.html?q=carotid&Itemid=140

 

[Red Baron Farms]

I'd say there is:

Your logic skills must be quite poor. By far the most likely cause for the carotid dissection was the nasty fall during a photo shoot. Until you rule that out, there is no reason to assume the quite rare occurrence of a tear possibly associated with overly aggressive chiropractic care caused this. There simply isn't enough information to make that very unlikely leap. Now if there was no neck trauma to begin with, and this happened, you might have something to talk about. But as it stands there really isn't much to say. She went to the hospital twice, and the chiropractor twice, and both failed to help. Sad, but it does happen.

 

[Blue Wode]

Your logic skills must be quite poor. By far the most likely cause for the carotid dissection was the nasty fall during a photo shoot. Until you rule that out, there is no reason to assume the quite rare occurrence of a tear possibly associated with overly aggressive chiropractic care caused this. There simply isn't enough information to make that very unlikely leap. Now if there was no neck trauma to begin with, and this happened, you might have something to talk about. But as it stands there really isn't much to say. She went to the hospital twice, and the chiropractor twice, and both failed to help. Sad, but it does happen.

Let's talk about it again when we know the autopsy results then.
http://www.inquisitr.com/2772175/qu...died-of-a-stroke-at-34-what-you-need-to-know/

 

[bigred]

Also interesting is that a member of her family claims that she didn't need to have her neck adjusted and that it killed her:
http://cdanews.com/2016/02/playboy-...rom-a-stroke-after-second-chiropractor-visit/

Did you even read the article you posted a link to? It was a friend who said that and had nothing to back that CLAIM up.

The story says she was injured during a photo shoot and went to a chiropractor. She didn't get to real doctors -- no need for quotes -- until after her chiropractor finished with her -- and apparently after she had a stroke.

Key point.

Yeah folks, it's the chiropractor's fault she went to him for neck pain instead of a "real doctor."

This is nothing more than something worse than she thought (reasonable to think, it would appear, except of course in hindsight) and unfortunately being wrong. Not her fault, not the chiropractor's.

But let's not let that stop the dog pile on the latter.