Adnan Syed - Serial / Undisclosed

Nice find. Honest question, are there still people who actually find Jay credible? Even among those who believe Adnan's guilty?
 
Desert Fox said:
Ampulla of Vater seems to see some value in Jay's statements.
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There is some value in everyone's statements. There is value in Adnan's and Hae's statements too. In order for Adnan to be innocent, the list of people who must be lying reaches about forty.

Why won't Adnan's team test the DNA?
Why has the innocence project gone silent?
Why did Jim Clemente profile the killer and describe Adnan right down to his socks?
Why do Rabia and Simpson leave out parts of testimony that implicate Syed? If Syed was innocent, they wouldn't have to cherry pick lines of the transcripts to prove their point.

It's all good though; Adnan will die in prison, where he belongs for strangling the life out of Hae.
 
Ampulla of Vater said:
There is some value in everyone's statements. There is value in Adnan's and Hae's statements too. In order for Adnan to be innocent, the list of people who must be lying reaches about forty.

Why won't Adnan's team test the DNA?
Why has the innocence project gone silent?
Why did Jim Clemente profile the killer and describe Adnan right down to his socks?Why do Rabia and Simpson leave out parts of testimony that implicate Syed? If Syed was innocent, they wouldn't have to cherry pick lines of the transcripts to prove their point.

It's all good though; Adnan will die in prison, where he belongs for strangling the life out of Hae.
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That is an idiotic statement. Others in this thread have explained why. Your bias is overwhelming.
 
Honestly, I would actually like to know who his 'forty people who have to be lying" are? In addition, what is the evidence which they present that Adnan is guilty.

As far as I can tell, the only witness whom is suppose to have seen Adnan with the body is Jay. If he is the only one and he is simply not credible, what do you actually have.

If there is a new trial, which I suspect there will be, his testimony will be shredded on any witness stand. Actually I suspect that the prosecution will not want to put him on the stand.

BTW: Ampulla of Vater, do you drive. Have you ever tried to get anything major done which involves driving? Even trying to take his statements as credible, just seems impossible due to everything involving driving always takes longer than planned.
 
Desert Fox said:
Honestly, I would actually like to know who his 'forty people who have to be lying" are? In addition, what is the evidence which they present that Adnan is guilty.
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Here are just some of the conspiratal elements which have been alleged in the framing of poor Adnan Syed:

  • Jay did not know where the car was but was fed the information by the detectives. This means the cops either moved the car to the location it was found (hence the sinister green grass growing under the car) and led Jay to it or the cops had found the car earlier in that location but sat on the discovery until such a time as they could find someone to coerce into pretending they knew where it was. In order to perpetrate this they created at least two false documents to give the impression they were still looking for the car on Feb. 17th and 27th just to throw anyone looking at the case off the track. https://app.box.com/s/vjjcy6ym5p9nvkhh8pawe1kcps64k7g9 and https://app.box.com/s/um58fq4q0xexmg1kwcf0nl0g9iblqcsy
    They also threw in a few questions about the location of the car into Jenn's interview on the 26th for good measure, to shore up the impression that they didn't know where it was.

  • Additional car conspiracies include the attempted or successful hotwiring of the car by someone, Jay, the cops, who knows? The repair of possible damage that would indicate Hae had been in a car wreck on the 13th. The multiple sightings of Hae's car.

  • The wiper lever had been repaired (if it was ever broken) after the release back to Hae's family, but Det. Forrester broke it again in order to shoot the video presented at trial and then perjured himself on the stand when he said it was broken when the car was found. Forrester also did something unknown but certainly nefarious with the signal lever which was caught on tape at the beginning of the car video.

  • Jay is the Crimestoppers tipster. The detectives knew it was Jay and conspired with him to falsify evidence and testimony to frame Adnan in return for a motorcycle, car or $3075 reward. There are too many elements to this particular conspiracy to even comprehend. It would require Crimestoppers to violate their strict policy of anonymity. It would require the Missing Person's cops from Balt. City to conspire with the Homicide cops from Balt. Co. It would require O'Shea, Ritz and McGillivray to perjure themselves at trial.

  • Tap, Tap, Ritz and McG fed Jay his entire story. Jay was not involved and had no knowledge of the events of Jan. 13. He was fed a narrative created in whole by the detectives who tapped on a chronology they created in order to get Jay's falsified story on tape. Every detail Jay seemed to know was told to him by the detectives and framed into a narrative containing zero elements of truth because it is simply made up. Remember, Jay is just a victim of injustice himself.

  • The cops had been talking to Jay prior to his Feb. 28 interview and lied on the stand about how the call logs and Jenn led them to Jay. In order to substantiate this lie, they pretended to not know who Jay was by asking Jenn for his last name and contact info in her pre-interview and writing that info in their handwritten notes. https://app.box.com/s/qn3ujqtcgf5fa5a13ce4gvmi39uxhwo4

  • Further conspiracies regarding Jenn include the cops telling her Hae was strangled and Det. Ritz providing her with an attorney who was his neighbor and golfing buddy, who then allowed Jenn to lie and falsely accuse Jay, implicating herself in the process, all in front of her mother, who pretended the lawyer was a Pusateri family friend.

  • There was a mole from the Attorney General's office in CG's office who told the prosecution that CG didn't understand lividity.

  • Detective Massey falsified his report regarding the Feb. 12 anon caller. There actually was no Feb. 12th anon call. Massey simply took the information from the Feb.1 Crimestoppers call, tweaked it a bit (like saying the caller was Asian/changing "car" to "body") and pretended the call actually came in on the 12th. Presumably he did this to hide the fact the cops knew the identity of the caller and were investigating Adnan as the only suspect as early as Feb. 1. Massey then avoided coming to court so he wouldn't have to perjure himself.

  • Adnan's Health teacher, Tracy Kramer, actually collected the break up note in class while Adnan and Aisha were writing on it, then later gave it to the detectives or her husband (Kramer was married to a detective in BPD), who later obtained a search warrant so they could "find" the note, which they had really planted in Adnan's room. To shore up this nefarious deed, Ritz made sure to get a photo of himself holding the note upon its "discovery".

  • Detectives and prosecutors were in possession of Hae's "secret diary" on floppy disc which was withheld from the defense and ultimately destroyed. Murphy accidentally references this secret diary in her closing argument.

  • Hope Schab works with Missing Persons to identify the times Adnan had no alibi so the detectives could later frame their theory of the murder around that timeline.

  • An agreement was made between Jenn, her attorney and her mother that she would provide a false statement implicating not only Adnan, but also Jay and herself in Hae's murder. This was apparently a gentleman's agreement between Ritz and his golfing buddy with the payoff being that Jay would avoid charges on two misdemeanor offenses if Jenn would implicate him in a felony, making herself an accessory to murder after the fact for good measure.

  • Jay, who is now the poster boy for injustice and corruption, agrees to the same. Admit to accessory to murder, let us provide you with a false narrative which you will repeat and we'll let those misdemeanors slide.
 
I don't see any forty people who have to be lying in what you responded with. . . In fact, it looks like you just jumped to something completely different.

BTW: How many police where involved in the framing of the Norfolk Four, Russ Faria, Amanda Knox, and other suspects we pretty much know are innocent?
 
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While Bob Ruff did not credit me, stating that several listeners posted it, he used the information I sent him about the moon not being up at that time.
 
Wanted to add a couple of additional notes:

I was listening to a podcast talking about the Karla Homolka / Paul Bernardo case. . . .Apparently the FBI profile basically completely failed with that profile.

Also, listening to the latest Undisclosed, the judge almost excluded the cell phone evidence and in what she said already indicated that it was unreliable. I also think that the Undislosed team hit it with regards to the location of the car, the police already knew where it was.
 
I just listened to Serial, I have not listened to Undisclosed. I don't know anything about the case other than what I heard on Serial and what I've read in this thread.

Jay's story changed so many times I can't believe anyone finds him credible. I agree with Koenig in the last episode of Serial that we can't be certain of Adnan's innocence, but there certainly a lot of reasonable doubt and a jury should have found him not guilty.

Ampulla of Vater said:
Why won't Adnan's team test the DNA?
Why has the innocence project gone silent?
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I thought at the end of Serial Adnan said he wanted the DNA test done. Has that changed?

Ok, just skimmed a few news sites and he was granted a new hearing back in November, but that hearing hasn't happened yet. When exactly the The Innocence Project go quiet? Does it make sense for them to go quiet due to this new hearing?

I haven't seen any mention here about the prosecutors (or cops) arranging for a defense attorney for Jay. Gutierrez and Koenig seemed to think that was fairly important.

What about the streaker that found the body? I think Koenig called him Mr. S. Has he been ruled out as a suspect?
Personally I think jay knows a lot more than he has let on.
 
Jay has had two burial times. . . . One around 6 pm and the other around midnight with the Intercept interview.

Consistent between the stories is that it was bright enough that he could count change in his hand, explaining it as being a full moon and that there was snow on the ground.

According to Weather Underground, there was no snow on the ground. In addition, it was a waning crescent that provided 5% illumination and did not rise until 4:37 am.
 
Desert Fox said:
Jay has had two burial times. . . . One around 6 pm and the other around midnight with the Intercept interview.

Consistent between the stories is that it was bright enough that he could count change in his hand, explaining it as being a full moon and that there was snow on the ground.

According to Weather Underground, there was no snow on the ground. In addition, it was a waning crescent that provided 5% illumination and did not rise until 4:37 am.
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There is snow on the ground in the picture Firedman Bob tweeted.
 
Today was day 1 of the hearing for Syed to see if he will get a new trial.

First witness was Phil Dantes, a friend & colleague of Syed's former defense attorney Christina Gutierrez who described her dwindling capacities. Gutierrez died in 2004 and this person, Dantes, represented her when some of her clients took action against her for ineffectiveness.

Many, many objections, most of which were sustained by the judge. This is territory already covered in previous appeal(s).

Next witness was Bill Kanwasher, who was an attorney with Gutierrez. He testified she was difficult to work for and, while once at the top of her game, was deteriorating later in her career. He said she would dump trials on him in the last minute and he would have to pick up the pieces and represent the client.


The star witness was Asia McClain, now married with children and living in Oregon. She held her own during direct, stating she is positive she saw Syed in the library at 2:15 on 1/13/1999. Cross just started before court was adjourned for the day. To be continued tomorrow.

If you want the best twitterized version from someone who was there, this is your guy:

https://twitter.com/justin_fenton
 
Ampulla of Vater said:
Today was day 1 of the hearing for Syed to see if he will get a new trial.

First witness was Phil Dantes, a friend & colleague of Syed's former defense attorney Christina Gutierrez who described her dwindling capacities. Gutierrez died in 2004 and this person, Dantes, represented her when some of her clients took action against her for ineffectiveness.

Many, many objections, most of which were sustained by the judge. This is territory already covered in previous appeal(s).

Next witness was Bill Kanwasher, who was an attorney with Gutierrez. He testified she was difficult to work for and, while once at the top of her game, was deteriorating later in her career. He said she would dump trials on him in the last minute and he would have to pick up the pieces and represent the client.


The star witness was Asia McClain, now married with children and living in Oregon. She held her own during direct, stating she is positive she saw Syed in the library at 2:15 on 1/13/1999. Cross just started before court was adjourned for the day. To be continued tomorrow.

If you want the best twitterized version from someone who was there, this is your guy:

https://twitter.com/justin_fenton
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looking positive for Syed. I dont see the relevance of the Hae family statement sayingn she was the victim. Everyone knows this.
 
lionking said:
looking positive for Syed. I dont see the relevance of the Hae family statement sayingn she was the victim. Everyone knows this.
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It's because all the attention is on Adnan, Rabia, The Three Stooges, and Asia McClain. Asia was treated like a celebrity when she walked out of the courthouse. I imagine the Lees are hurting badly having to reopen their partially healed wound.

Put yourself in their shoes, with one of your daughters. Every time you think it is over there is more to come. This one complete with celebrity status for the murderer and his camp, national coverage for poor, poor Adnan and media all over the place like ants on a candy cane.
 
Ampulla of Vater said:
It's because all the attention is on Adnan, Rabia, The Three Stooges, and Asia McClain. Asia was treated like a celebrity when she walked out of the courthouse. I imagine the Lees are hurting badly having to reopen their partially healed wound.

Put yourself in their shoes, with one of your daughters. Every time you think it is over there is more to come. This one complete with celebrity status for the murderer and his camp, national coverage for poor, poor Adnan and media all over the place like ants on a candy cane.
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In most cases, even when they get the wrong person, the family still thinks those that are convicted are those responsible. The family of Michelle Moore-Bosko still think the Norfolk Four are responsible for example even though the only evidence are some forced confessions. All the phsyical evidence supports a single attacker named Omar Ballard.
 
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Desert Fox said:
In most cases, even when they get the wrong person, the family still thinks those that are convicted are those responsible. The family of Michelle Moore-Bosko still think the Norfolk Four are responsible for example even though the only evidence are some forced confessions. All the phsyical evidence supports a single attacker named Omar Ballard.
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The odd one out may be the Lundy case, where the sister knows he is innocent, but the brother thinks he is guilty and a monster. I suspect this is very unusual. This Syed case seems to have you all divided, I must watch it some time.
 
Listening to Jim Clemente basically tear apart Jay Wild's police interview on Truth and Justice.
I think here he is on more solid ground where he argues that the interview is completely coached by the police.

Edit: To explain a bit more, he both uses language that does not to be in his normal style including a lot of what one might consider to be "cop speech." It appears as if he is rehearsed or following notes. Even if Adnan is guilty, do you think that shoudl be allowed?
 
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