Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Split Thread Foreknowledge of events on 9/11
- Thread starter paloalto
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Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
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Please provide evidence that the Truther story is amusing! (...and that it exists)
jimd3100
Thinker
Rossini and Miller were the FBI Agents working at ALEC Station, and they say the opposite of what you're saying....
But blaming “the system” sidesteps the issue of why one CIA officer in particular, Michael Anne Casey, ordered Rossini’s cohort, Miller, not to alert the FBI about al-Mihdhar. Or why the CIA’s Alec Station bosses failed to alert the FBI—or any other law enforcement agency—about the arrival of Nawaf al-Hazmi, another key Al-Qaeda operative (and future hijacker) the agency had been tracking to and from a terrorist summit in Malaysia.
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/23/information-could-have-stopped-911-299148.html
The Head of the CIA gave this explanation as to why the CIA didn't notify the FBI while questioned by the Joint Inquiry....
SEN. CARL LEVIN: My question is do you know why the FBI Was not notified of the fact that an al-Qaida operative now was known in March of the year 2000 to have entered the United States? Why did the CIA not specifically notify the FBI?
Tenet: ... nobody read that information-only cable.
Seen here...
https://youtu.be/IF38P58-rdo?t=1m48s
This was a lie of course, as the CIA OIG report makes clear......
CIA OIG Report:
"In the period January through March 2000, some 50 to 60 individuals read one or more of six Agency cables containing travel information related to these terrorists."
https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/Executive Summary_OIG Report.pdf
This failure, along with the support the hijackers received from Saudi Arabia, were two of the main concerns and unanswered questions, the 9-11 victims family members wanted answers to, and was a major reason for their demand for an "Independent 9-11 Commission".
And the Commission was a failure - as far as resolving these two issues....
“The FBI is telling the truth,” Philip Zelikow, executive director of the 9/11 Commission, told Newsweek. As for why the CIA not only failed to share pre-9/11 information on Al-Qaeda operatives but forbade the FBI agents in Alec Station from sharing it, Zelikow said, “We don’t know.”
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/23/information-could-have-stopped-911-299148.html
If you have evidence of this, maybe you should send it to Philip Zelikow, executive director of the 9/11 Commission.
As for why the CIA not only failed to share pre-9/11 information on Al-Qaeda operatives but forbade the FBI agents in Alec Station from sharing it, Zelikow said, “We don’t know.”
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/23/information-could-have-stopped-911-299148.html
Axxman300
Philosopher
The FBI were briefed first on 11 June, 2001, then again on 13, July, 2001, and then urgently on 23, August, 2001.
The FBI leadership blew off the report because :
Source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/could/
The FBI is equally as culpable as the CIA in the failures leading to the attack. The "Phoenix Memo" is an example of an FBI field agent who smelled a rat, but was ignored by management.
There was - and remains a systemic problem when it comes to counter-terrorism in this country.
The FBI leadership blew off the report because :
Source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/could/
The FBI is equally as culpable as the CIA in the failures leading to the attack. The "Phoenix Memo" is an example of an FBI field agent who smelled a rat, but was ignored by management.
There was - and remains a systemic problem when it comes to counter-terrorism in this country.
Thanks!
That it is.
It is also far more plausible and realistic than any narrative of "what really happened on 9/11" ever presented by the Truth Movement.
Prefect summary for all 911 truth claims.
What does that make the delusional fantasies of 911 truth? Sad, mocking the murder of thousands with claims based on BS.
911 truth is left with BS about foreknowledge of an event not known until it happened on 911.
With 911 truth baffled how 19 terrorists were able to fly already flying 767/757; how can 911 truth figure out 911 was a surprize attack, and used a ruse of hijacking to murder. Lucky 911 truth was not on Flight 93, it would have made its target due to failure for 911 truth to figure out 911 after 14 years of constant BS.
911 truth can't figure out how easy it is to fly a 767/757, and now the fringe of 911 truth, the foreknowledge bunch (so of who use to push the dumber aspects of 911 truth claims), speculate about how the FBI and CIA did not stop something they did not know was going to happen.
How do you arrest foreign "students" for something they have not done?
How do 911 truth followers believe any of the evidence free claims?
Who had the plot of 911 so they could stop it? ... , the last fringe claims from failed 911 truth followers.
The sad part of 911, is the passengers fell for the guns/bombs BS part of the hijacking, and failed to realize there was little chance to get bombs, guns and large knives on flights - here are the last remnants of 911 truth claiming the CIA and FBI failed, when it is all of us who can't prepare for every single BS plot the idiots who want to kill us because they have nothing better to do than follow an idiot like UBL.
Here have the last chance for failed 911 truth followers to show everyone how they failed to take action; yes 911 truth followers failed to do anything but make up BS about 911. They never pushed for secure cockpits, or add an extra 10,000 FBI agents to watch possible terror suspects in the USA... and as we were warned by UBL he was out to kill us, ever since the 1990s, we can't even keep from killing 40,000 to 50,000 in traffic accidents, and I have warned many, you might be in an accident, yet they keep happening... oh noes, is the CIA and FBI responsible for letting traffic accidents happen too...
Thank goodness it takes minutes to figure out 911, as Flight 93 Passengers proved, and took action; something only the murderers of 911 truth, like the Boston bombers do, take action to do bad... 911 truth is 99.999 percent pure do nothing BS, no action, no clue. Is there anything good from 911 truth? no, only clueless failure
Then we have Newsweek selling soap, making up headlines to make money...
"""THE INSIDE INFORMATION THAT COULD HAVE STOPPED 9/11""", what the heck does "could" mean? Is it like "would" have, could have, should have? (gee, at first I thought the "news" was making a real claim... but "could" stepped in to save the day)
If I thought something was important, I worked extra time to solve the problem; are you saying these guys knew and failed to do the extra to make it happen right? I remember project, and when I found problems I worked 16 hours and solved the problem. Where as Rossini and Miller did what? Nothing. If they knew why did they fail? Wait, this is cherry picking a news article, and quote mining the very guys who failed to do what now they see in hindsight was a mistake... kind of like crashing due to ice, and knowing you checked the weather and failed to maintain a safe speed... oops...
It is so easy to look back after the fact and see a "could have"...
What does could mean? I could have been a General,,, I could have flown jets... oops I did fly jets, but no star...
could
ko͝od,kəd/
verb
past of can
used to indicate possibility.
"they could be right"
used in making polite requests.
"could I use the phone?"
Could comes through to fuel the final days of 911 truth's constant failure and BS.
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yodaluver28
Muse
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2006
- Messages
- 569
The CIA does a lot of stuff, like gathering intelligence that prevents terrorist attacks that would kill thousands of innocent people. I consider that a good thing.
They did know, they're not stupid. They not only knew about anti-US grumblings, they knew about multiple terrorist plots unfolding. They simply didn't know enough details about the biggest plot to stop it. They and the FBI stopped many, before and after.
So? How is that relevant to the subject at hand?
Complete and utter nonsense. 9/11 was not perpetrated by anyone who was even remotely desperate or who had their resources plundered. 9/11 was perpetrated by people who ranged from middle class to wealthy, were well educated, and had promising futures if they'd only resisted the pull of religious lunacy. Most of them were also from Saudi Arabia or Egypt, countries that benefited greatly from American wealth and political protection.
To whatever extent 9/11 was blowback, it was blowback for Ronald Reagan and Charlie Wilson's idiotic plan to arm the rabid and bloodthirsty anti-American religious zealots of the Mujahadeen, many fighters for whom became Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters, against the Soviets. Wilson himself, to his credit, said in an interview shortly after 9/11, "this day was as much my fault as anybody's".
Very true.
BS! Al Qaeda was born of psychotic religious extremism, not politics or fighting any kind of real world oppression. Oppression is what Al Qaeda sought to inflict on others, not liberate anyone from. Bin Laden was mad that the US "soiled the Holy Land" when they went to defend Saudi Arabian borders (at SA's request) after Iraq invaded Kuwait. That was his main beef with us. His rants about the Palestinians and Hiroshima came much later as justification for the carnage he'd inspired. The government Bin Laden wanted to instill across the ME was far harsher and more oppressive than those of American allies in the ME, which is saying something. Ditto ISIS. Or are they also being "forced" to commit terrorist attacks, murder, rape, torture, enslavement of women and children, and beheadings against innocent people because Americans and the CIA are big, bad supervillainous meanies?
Jango
Graduate Poster
1. Which is a lame excuse. Al Qaeda was put on the Foreign Terrorist Organization list on 10/8/1999. Al Qaeda had already attacked the U.S. on several occasions prior to Almidhar entering the U.S. And Almidhar was known as an al Qaeda operative. He did not need to commit a crime in the U.S. before U.S. counterterrorism officials could apprehend him because being a terrorist from a group on the official terrorist list is enough of a punishable crime already.
2. Or the pleas from the agents in Minnesota. Weird how all of this threat warning about al Qaeda was going on but F.B.I. management buried the leads.
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
But according to your narrative, the CIA should have known that also and hence must also be complicit in those very same previous Al-Qaeda attacks.
Why did the CIA not prevent all of those previous attacks?
Sure, you gripe about the CIA/FBI actions surrounding 911. But I don't see you griping about the previous attacks and the intelligence failures surrounding those.
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
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Blowback is not just a result of oppressing the poor and powerless, but can also result from stepping on the toes of other alpha males.
I.o.w. to cite grievances you don't have to suffer them personally, it suffices if you want to have power over them yourself.
Yes, that's how I see it.
I wouldn' totally discount the effect of humiliating Iraq, and Saudi Arabia selling herself out to oil customers, on the pan-Arabian soul, either.
Apparently OBL was also very displeased with the way the KSA was doing things in SA. It's really a tiny family which exploits and buys power by selling oil. They hate the way Islam is practiced in Iran... which is way larger and more educated.... and has oil wealth as well. Wahhabism is a very radical form of Islam and one that the KFA wants to impose on the ME. OBL was pissed off at the USA meddling in the ME. He was wanting to get the USSR and anti religious out of Afghanistan and made a deal with the West (USA) to take down the Najibulah government. He wanted to KFA to let his army ... and I suppose give him power inside of SA to fight against KFA's neighbors... and he wanted the KFA not to be a suck up to the USA. Radical religion is used to motivate people to war... especially in ME. You see this is ISIL... AQ and so forth. Their fights are not for democracy or rights... but for one religious interpretation of Islam dominating and restoring the caliphate throughout the ME. I am not sure if these radicals seriously intend to rid the world of all non believers and take their battle to Europe and NA, SA and Asia... but you recall Bush(?) saying he wants to fight them there so he didn't have to fight them here. Fanatics are irrational and scary.
Jango
Graduate Poster
'Why' indeed. And you can add the F.B.I. to that with any domestic terrorist attack, like the '93 WTC bombing.
Is that a suggestion that I am or have been politically partisan in my "griping"? Nevertheless, I have posted here about the '93 World Trade Center bombing (besides my above comments).
How would arresting one or two of the 19 stop the 911 attacks?
How would anyone know idiots were going to park a rented truck in the WTC and blow it up, and then try to get their money back for the rental truck.
Might as well ad to the Gish Gallop and bring up McVeigh, who failed to stop him and why. Looking back, gee, he was the only nut to buy 4,000 pounds of fertilizer for no valid reason. Why did the FBI fail to stop anything; next time we have an accident in our car, why did we let it happen.
Why is 911 truth void of all evidence for all claims? The best stuff anyone can say about 911 is, "could have". Is there added BS for the 93 bombing?
What is the point? As this BS of foreknowledge ignores the thousands of other persons of interest, or is it millions. Gee, while doing "could have stopped", why not do "what if" there were other persons of interest?
What we have is quote mining people after 911 and BS made up about this and that, and how it all adds up to "could have" stopped... and leaving out how that would happen. How do you stop a plot never known before 911, using a method never used before. Looking back it is easy to see how, because now we know the hijackings were a ruse to use aircraft as WMDs, a one time trick which had a time limit demonstrated when Passengers on Flight 93 figured out 911 14 years and counting before you and 911 truth.
Jango
Graduate Poster
Removed breach of rule 0, rule 12 and rule 5.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By: Agatha
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Perfect summary of the point you were making; excellent.
Super summary of 911 truth evidence too, BS. projection... This is the kind of evidence the JFK CTers use, the empty set.
All the BS claims of 911 truth failed, and what is left, a bunch of BS about "could have".
Zero on how it could have been stopped, just BS claims it "could have", backed up with quote mining and summaries like this, of all 911 truth evidence.
When will one of the super foreknowledge BS pushers explain in detail how it "could have" been.
I doubt a point will be coming backed with anything more than quote mined BS and failed news articles, like the "the hijackers, some of whom that lived openly, trained on U.S. military bases" BS.
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tsig
a carbon based life-form
- Joined
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President of the US: We need to blow up three buildings in NYC so we can remove the liberties of the American people.
Henchman: We'll crash airliners into them, allow fires to rage then set off explosives.
P of US: Sounds good, make it so.
Axxman300
Philosopher
Just because a guy has links to a terrorist group or even an organized crime syndicate does not mean that he can be arrested unless he has been charged with a crime. That's how the Constitution works, that's why the ACLU has had their panties in a twist about warrentless wire-taps, and arresting Arab Nationals and holding them in prison without even being charged with a crime. That's why the US Gub'Mint has had to knock that stuff off and release prisoners from Gitmo.
Here's an idea, next time you're in California, walk into a Hell'Angels bar and announce that everyone inside is under citizen's arrest, and block the door until the cops get there. I mean, they're an outlaw biker gang, someone in there has probably broken the law, so you can just march right in there and pick out the biker of your choice and slap the cuffs on.
Let me know how that goes.
Jango
Graduate Poster
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
Yes, because the Hell's Angels are on the same list as al Qaeda. Great analogy...
The DoJ lists them as an organised crime syndicate. A different list than terrorists perhaps, but is there much practical difference in how they are handled?
Axxman300
Philosopher
No.
The California Highway Patrol, and any other law enforcement agency in this state tends to dress out in full military gear when it's time to raid a motorcycle gang location.
And the point is that just because a guy has ties to Al Qaeda doesn't automatically make him a terrorist or a criminal, and before 9-11, the FBI felt that they needed a good reason to make an arrest.
The irony is that their were only 19 hijackers because a Customs Agent did his job when he smelled a rat and denied entry to #20. That cut against the grain of racial profiling and might have cost him his job.