Continuation Part 19: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Grinder]

I'm "reactionary"? LOL. You refuse to expand on your reactionary kneejerk comments such as "BS" (when actually it's because you know I am right) and you think you come across as a liberal. I have news for you buddy.

Alas reactionary is another word whose meaning is just now being destroyed (unlike alternative that was changing 100 years ago) - he probably meant reactive not a far right conservative.

 

[Vixen]

Excuse me? Do you know what "reactionary" means. I'm not sure what knee-jerk comments you are referring to. Still, I said a hell of a lot more in that post then that some of my cop friends were cocky and arrogant. But those were the two you reacted to. I also said that my cop friends were some of the best people I know and genuinely wanted to help others. I also said that the admitted lying and intimidated suspects to get them to incriminate themseves. And that they considered them to be valuable tactics to have at their disposal.

Reactionary is an identifiable personality trait. For example, you can predict that someone who believes in flogging, also believes in hanging, is right-wing, resistant to change, narrow-minded.

I do not believe in flogging, hanging, am centre party, adaptable, broadminded.

You say your cop friends are 'the best', yet you also say they lie and intimidate suspects. That can never be ethical. It is not their job to mete out punishment or terrify suspects.

 

[Grinder]

I'm pretty sure the Reid technique was invented in Canada and yes I KNOW that the Italian police were employing it. I'm pretty sure the Italian police admitted this. The fact is while controversial the Reid technique is practiced by police all over the world.

More misinformation, Minister.

No it wasn't invented in Canada - read the article.

Reid was a former Chicago street cop who had become a consultant and polygraph expert. He had developed a reputation as someone who could get criminals to confess. Rather than brutalize suspects, as police often did in those days, he used modern science, combining his polygraphic skills with an understanding of human psychology.​

 

[Vixen]

Alas reactionary is another word whose meaning is just now being destroyed (unlike alternative that was changing 100 years ago) - he probably meant reactive not a far right conservative.

He meant far right conservative.

 

[Grinder]

I'd say he's more like Inspector Clouseau. Amanda masterfully erased every trace of herself from the crime scene, and flawlessly staged her accomplice's exact break-in style down to its idiosyncratic details, but the clueless police missed all this and through their very incompetent reasoning arrived at the correct killer, the mastermind Amanda, entirely by accident. She would have gotten away with it if the FBI or Scotland Yard were on the case

Not if Cato was on the case.

 

[Grinder]

Excuse me? Do you know what "reactionary" means. I'm not sure what knee-jerk comments you are referring to. Still, I said a hell of a lot more in that post then that some of my cop friends were cocky and arrogant. But those were the two you reacted to. I also said that my cop friends were some of the best people I know and genuinely wanted to help others. I also said that the admitted lying and intimidating suspects to get them to incriminate themseves. And that they considered those to be valuable tactics to have at their disposal.

re·ac·tion·ar·y
rēˈakSHəˌnerē/Submit
adjective
1.
(of a person or a set of views) opposing political or social liberalization or reform.
synonyms: right-wing, conservative, rightist, ultraconservative; More
noun
1.
a reactionary person.
synonyms: right-winger, conservative, rightist;

 

[Vixen]

Did he really say that? Do you have a source?

Have a read of his police statements and prison diary:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/File_library:_Master_list

 

[acbytesla]

More misinformation, Minister.

No it wasn't invented in Canada - read the article.

Reid was a former Chicago street cop who had become a consultant and polygraph expert. He had developed a reputation as someone who could get criminals to confess. Rather than brutalize suspects, as police often did in those days, he used modern science, combining his polygraphic skills with an understanding of human psychology.​

Thank you Grinder. Somehow I associated it with Toronto.

 

[Grinder]

He meant far right conservative.

Nope. You have to get to know people's loose use of words. That of course is only one of your alternatives

he said Still, I said a hell of a lot more in that post then that some of my cop friends were cocky and arrogant. But those were the two you reacted to

See I was right about his use.

 

[bagels]

Have a read of his police statements and prison diary:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/File_library:_Master_list

Wow that's 10,000 pages of evidence right there, no wonder they were guilty.

Anyway, if he did say that about bloody shoe prints that were later proven not to belong to his shoes but Rudy's, that corroborates his knife prick story as being the work of someone who is a walking embodiment of the innocent people the US Constitution's 5th amendment and other right to silence laws were designed to protect.

 

[Vixen]

Your posts are reaching either new highs or lows depending on how one looks at it.

Putting an item in one's pocket or purse is not a crime. The policeman had no right to ask her anything and all she needed to do was tell him to **** off.

Neither would make it to court as the woman didn't commit a crime.

The PLE and Gobbi both noticed her body language and decided she was guilty. The little dance step with the booties and reaction to the knives were damning as far as they were concerned. Perhaps you should reread the New Yorker article.

You have evaded the point, which is that police are expected to observe behavioural aspects in their eye witness accounts. Thus recording Amanda slapped her forehead is a perfectly objective statement.

Giobbi is a braggart full of braggadocio - there, the Italians even invented a word for it - but it's not in his job description to be pleasant. The shallow personalities of Amanda and Raff were noticed by a lot of people. I don't think even Raff and Amanda realised their lack of empathy or compassion was different from other people's.

Why would shallow, indifferent, Amanda suddenly start shaking and crying on seeing the kitchen knives? In itself, it just is. However, it is perfectly valid for the cops to record it in their notes.

 

[Grinder]

Raff has the chess player mind. He precluded the cops on several occasions, for example, explaining away Mez' DNA on the knife blade as when he pricked her hand and the shoe prints as, "someone must have borrowed my shoes".

From the article:

“They accused me of hitting the wrong button.” Some even confabulated details, such as “I hit it with the side of my hand.” Not only had they internalized their guilt; they had come up with a story to explain it. Although Kassin made sure to inform the students afterward that the experiment was a hoax, they sometimes replied, “You’re just trying to make me feel better.”​

When confronted by police lies people try to explain what they are being told is the truth. As we now know, or at least the vast majority of capable people, the shoe prints were left by Rudi - Raf knew he hadn't left them (guilty or innocent) so his statement makes him look innocent. If guilty and knowing he had not left the prints why would he say something so stupid?

 

[Grinder]

You have evaded the point, which is that police are expected to observe behavioural aspects in their eye witness accounts. Thus recorded Amanda slapped her forehead is a perfectly objective statement.

Giobbi is a braggart full of bragadocio there, the Italians even invented a word for it - but it's not in his job description to be pleasant. The shallow personalities of Amanda and Raff were noticed by aa lot of people. I don't think even Raff and Amanda realised their lack of empathy or compassion was different from other people's.

Why would shallow, indifferent, Amanda suddenly start shaking and crying on seeing the kitchen knives? In itself, it just is. However, it is perfectly valid for the cops to record it in their notes.

I thought it was the civilian that was into body language. Reporting behavior isn't the problem. Reactionary Reacting to it by forming opinions based on their wealth of experience is what is wrong with it.

They may be very shallow people. So what?

If your roommate had been murdered and the police took you to the scene of the murder and showed you knives one which might have killed the roommate , you think that is noteworthy?

 

[bagels]

From the article:

“They accused me of hitting the wrong button.” Some even confabulated details, such as “I hit it with the side of my hand.” Not only had they internalized their guilt; they had come up with a story to explain it. Although Kassin made sure to inform the students afterward that the experiment was a hoax, they sometimes replied, “You’re just trying to make me feel better.”​

When confronted by police lies people try to explain what they are being told is the truth. As we now know, or at least the vast majority of capable people, the shoe prints were left by Rudi - Raf knew he hadn't left them (guilty or innocent) so his statement makes him look innocent. If guilty and knowing he had not left the prints why would he say something so stupid?

The police have a guy whose ringed Nike shoes appear similar to the ringed bloody prints at the scene, and he makes up a ridiculous obvious lie that somebody borrowed them that night? Talk about caso chiuso.

And the PGP talk about how the police would have no motivation to pursue two innocent students.

 

[Planigale]

Sure we have some control over breathing. However, hold your breath until you pass out and your ANS soon takes over and has you breathing again.

You take 15 breaths a minute. Are you sure you have to think about it?

No! Breathing is not autonomic, the principle breathing muscle is the diaphragm, a striated muscle not a smooth muscle innervated by the phrenic nerve not the sympathetic or parasympathetic components of the autonomic nervous system. Very little of what you do is conscious - one does not directly control all your leg and trunk muscles when walking or running, most of what you do is unconscious. Indeed there is evidence that even what we think is conscious is really sophisticated unconscious activity. When asleep one moves arms and legs and breathes. If deeply unconscious, or brain dead, breathing stops when autonomic activity continues e.g. heart beat.

The autonomic nervous system is defined anatomical structure(s). It does not refer to any automatic or unconscious bodily activity! Having claimed a degree in psychology that involved a significant neurological / physiological component you seem to have a poor grasp of facts on a par with your claimed mathematical expertise.

 

[Grinder]

The police have a guy whose ringed Nike shoes appear similar to the ringed bloody prints at the scene, and he makes up a ridiculous obvious lie that somebody borrowed them that night? Talk about caso chiuso.

And the PGP talk about how the police would have no motivation to pursue two innocent students.

Perhaps we have a slightly different opinion here. I think the police believe the confessions fully. When they get someone to admit things, they like most PGP, believe it must be true.

 

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
Alas reactionary is another word whose meaning is just now being destroyed (unlike alternative that was changing 100 years ago) - he probably meant reactive not a far right conservative.

He meant far right conservative.

Vocabulary.com
A reactionary is someone reacting (in horror) to what most of the world considers to be progress. No one describes themselves as reactionary––you will hear it more often as a condemnation, as in "I cannot support the reactionary policy of mandatory military service for 18-year-olds."

I meant essentially that you ferreted out the two words "cocky and arrogant" when I described cops and reacted to that as opposed to the rest of what I said. Anything that I could have said which could be construed as a slight against authority must be quickly put down.

It was if I was Father Merrin sprinkling holy water on 12 year old Regan.

 

[bagels]

Perhaps we have a slightly different opinion here. I think the police believe the confessions fully. When they get someone to admit things, they like most PGP, believe it must be true.

No I agree. From their point of view they have a guy whose shoes appeared to match the bloody prints at the scene telling them an implausible story about the shoes being borrowed and miraculously returned the next morning, unnoticed.

This would naturally corroborate the police suspicion against the students and influence how they interpreted the evidence. But the PGP constantly fall back on the excuse that the police would never pursue innocent people.

 

[Numbers]

No! Breathing is not autonomic, the principle breathing muscle is the diaphragm, a striated muscle not a smooth muscle innervated by the phrenic nerve not the sympathetic or parasympathetic components of the autonomic nervous system. Very little of what you do is conscious - one does not directly control all your leg and trunk muscles when walking or running, most of what you do is unconscious. Indeed there is evidence that even what we think is conscious is really sophisticated unconscious activity. When asleep one moves arms and legs and breathes. If deeply unconscious, or brain dead, breathing stops when autonomic activity continues e.g. heart beat.

The autonomic nervous system is defined anatomical structure(s). It does not refer to any automatic or unconscious bodily activity! Having claimed a degree in psychology that involved a significant neurological / physiological component you seem to have a poor grasp of facts on a par with your claimed mathematical expertise.

You may have discovered something important about the content of the posts from this poster. I believe that one could generalize that the legal discussions of those posts also are almost entirely incorrect.

 

[Bill Williams]

Actually, Mignini ascertained Amanda was afraid of Patrick because she literally started screaming, "He's bad! He's bad!"

That's not what Mignini told CNN's Drew Griffin in 2010. Mignini specifically said he surmised all these things because of Amanda's behaviour, not because of anything she said.

And put on a performance of being afraid worthy of an Oscar award. Raff even falsely claimed to have heard her screams (he claims, screams from being tortured).

If it weren't for inflamed rhetoric, you perhaps would have nothing to post.

As per the Academy Award performance, that's the problem isn't it. Mignini (acc. to Follain) said two things, one was in this neighbourhood, that he perceived Amanda to be a liar and an actress.....

...... but that he had to arrest Lumumba because Amanda accused him.

It will be interesting to see which next bit of inflamed rhetoric Follain's writing will be met with.