Hillary Clinton is Done

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Tiktaalik said:
Me, too, but I would add to that: I don't understand what terrible things people think Clinton would do if she got into office. Specifically, what?
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Republicans might think that. I think the democrats that dislike her don't think she would do terrible things as much as business as usual, which we don't want.
 
The_Animus said:
Republicans might think that. I think the democrats that dislike her don't think she would do terrible things as much as business as usual, which we don't want.
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I think that's a very valid point. Certainly one that concerns me.

Light years better than the current Republican alternatives though. Something I refuse to contribute to by sitting out.
 
The_Animus said:
Republicans might think that. I think the democrats that dislike her don't think she would do terrible things as much as business as usual, which we don't want.
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But in all democratic countries we don't get to vote policy by policy or for our ideal candidates we have to chose from what we have in front of us. I would have thought people considering voting for any Democrat candidate would have thought the only other option, voting for a Republican candidate was the least good choice?
 
Darat said:
But in all democratic countries we don't get to vote policy by policy or for our ideal candidates we have to chose from what we have in front of us. I would have thought people considering voting for any Democrat candidate would have thought the only other option, voting for a Republican candidate was the least good choice?
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Sure and that is the case for most people who'd normally vote democrat including myself which is why I'll vote Sanders in the primary and whoever the dem nom in the general. But there is a part of the base that simply won't feel motivated to come out to vote if they feel the dem candidate is insincere. There is another part of the base that feels that picking the lesser of two evils, while being better in the short term, or even medium term given sc justice choices, is ultimately worse in the long term because it reinforces and maintains the status quo instead of truly trying to be progressive. So if neither party candidate meets their standards they vote for a third party that does. Then there are independents and I can't say much other than they are an important part needed to win the general and they don't seem to approve of Hillary.

You can disagree with their reasoning or think them short sighted fools but it is what it is.
 
One of the things I see people say most often is that they like Bernie, or even prefer Bernie, but feel he can't win the general election. Hillary woulds win the general election but Bernie would lose it.

My question for those who believe this...

Where are these votes coming from that would win the election for Hillary but wouldn't also vote for Bernie? Is it the base? Because from what I can see most of the base will vote for whoever the dem nominee is regardless of whether it is Bernie or Hillary and if anything a portion of the base (such as those I mention in post #1969 above) seems like it would vote for Bernie but might stay home or vote 3rd party rather than Hillary. Is it the independents then? Well currently independents highly favor Bernie over Hillary. Is it conservatives? From what I've seen conservatives have full on Hillary Derangement Syndrome and would never vote for her but there are conservatives who seem to like and will vote for Bernie. So where exactly are these magical votes coming from that would see Hillary win but Bernie lose?
 
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It's that Sanders might not win the general. Though that is a huge risk to take. But that's not all, even if he won, he'll be powerless unless there is some major political movement behind him. He has said so himself. I don't believe that movement will materialize, and the evidence so far is like Trump, he has 1/3 of 1/2 of the country behind him. That's not enough.

He'd be an ineffective President, still ranting that the rich control the government.
 
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The_Animus said:
So where exactly are these magical votes coming from that would see Hillary win but Bernie lose?
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From fools who can not grasp reality, as it stares them in the face. They close their eyes, and place fingers in ears, while chanting absurdities!
They will hand the Republicans this election! Even after warnings have been delivered to them! HRC spells doom for US all!
Lucky for US, this country is resilient! Regardless, we will persevere!
 
Dog Town said:
From fools who can not grasp reality, as it stares them in the face. They close their eyes, and place fingers in ears, while chanting absurdities!
They will hand the Republicans this election! Even after warnings have been delivered to them! HRC spells doom for US all!
Lucky for US, this country is resilient! Regardless, we will persevere!
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So which Republican will beat HRC? If you can't nominate one who will it's you who has your fingers in your ears.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
He'd be an ineffective President, still ranting that the rich control the government.
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Hmmm.....this is sounding better. I think I like the idea of an ineffective President.

Still, I can't see voting for Sanders in the primary. I don't think he can win against anyone that Hillary also couldn't beat, and even though I don't really like Hillary personally, I think Bernie is a bit too far left for me.

So, it's Hillary for me unless there are significant, unforeseen, developments.


One thing is certain. Hillary is not done yet.
 
If people want a change and think that allowing the least good person to win will make a change happen they are very wrong. If you want a change it is not done top down, it is bottom up, you need to start campaigning at the grass roots level. Unfortunately most of us just aren't that bothered about the state of our politics to make the effort to do anything but grumble about it. Voting is the easiest part of politics, and it is important but don't kid yourself that you will be helping make a change in how your politics are by letting someone who is even further from what you want win an election.
 
Darat said:
If people want a change and think that allowing the least good person to win will make a change happen they are very wrong. If you want a change it is not done top down, it is bottom up, you need to start campaigning at the grass roots level. Unfortunately most of us just aren't that bothered about the state of our politics to make the effort to do anything but grumble about it. Voting is the easiest part of politics, and it is important but don't kid yourself that you will be helping make a change in how your politics are by letting someone who is even further from what you want win an election.
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I think many have discussed taking the lessor of two evils!
I believe your main premise to be flawed. History is littered with leaders that led strongly from the top down. With differing results! Some were exceptional, and some a horror. All brought about drastic change from their specific seat of power.
 
lionking said:
So which Republican will beat HRC? If you can't nominate one who will it's you who has your fingers in your ears.
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Anyone their base elects!
As has been stated:
The hatred from the right towards HRC, will rally the base to a larger than normal turnout. HRC does not excite the left base, in fact many despise her there as well. Do the math!
 
Dog Town said:
Anyone their base elects!
As has been stated:
The hatred from the right towards HRC, will rally the base to a larger than normal turnout. HRC does not excite the left base, in fact many despise her there as well. Do the math!
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The right wing is just about totally ignoring Bernie. I may have a particularly Hobbsian view of the GOP, but do you not think that they're dying to be able to run against an effete eastern intellectual Jewish socialist? The rumor and innuendo mill will be in high gear if Bernie gets close to the nomination. Right now, they're ignoring him because like the rest of the realists in the world, they just don't see him taking down Hillary. If he becomes the nomination, they'll tear him apart. Swing states like North Carolina, Virginia, Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio,.... states that Hillary should have little difficulty taking... will all be in play.

I don't think there's as rabid an anti-Hillary base on the right as people are projecting from a few noisemakers suffering from HDC. This is a targeted partisan effort to take down the person they don't want to run against. If Bernie becomes the nominee, he becomes the target. They've been calling B.H. Obama a socialist and communist. How do you think they're going to react to an actual card-carrying socialist?
 
Foolmewunz said:
The right wing is just about totally ignoring Bernie. I may have a particularly Hobbsian view of the GOP, but do you not think that they're dying to be able to run against an effete eastern intellectual Jewish socialist? The rumor and innuendo mill will be in high gear if Bernie gets close to the nomination. Right now, they're ignoring him because like the rest of the realists in the world, they just don't see him taking down Hillary. If he becomes the nomination, they'll tear him apart. Swing states like North Carolina, Virginia, Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio,.... states that Hillary should have little difficulty taking... will all be in play.

I don't think there's as rabid an anti-Hillary base on the right as people are projecting from a few noisemakers suffering from HDC. This is a targeted partisan effort to take down the person they don't want to run against. If Bernie becomes the nominee, he becomes the target. They've been calling B.H. Obama a socialist and communist. How do you think they're going to react to an actual card-carrying socialist?
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I think the GOP wants to run against anybody other than Sanders.
 
BenBurch said:
I think the GOP wants to run against anybody other than Sanders.
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Yes, because he will steal votes from them! HRC not a chance of getting conservatives! Also they don't have years of screw ups to use against him. HRC is a target they can easily destroy!
 
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