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IndoctriNATION movie

Pup said:
The fear has to be taught first, then a chance to get out of hell sounds great. But without that initial fear, there's no need to worry about displeasing a nonexistant God.
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Unless you're wrong. In that case you've lost salvation and what he created you for. Have it your way though.
 
logger said:
Unless you're wrong. In that case you've lost salvation and what he created you for. Have it your way though.
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If I am wrong about God's non-existence, it does not mean you are right. How do you know Vikings did not have it right? (The only prerequisite for entering Valhalla is to die bravely in battle.)

Or Muslims. Or Greeks. Or Chinese. Or... thousands more variations of gods, any one of whom could be the right one.

Or they were all made up.
 
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logger said:
Keyword being worship, putting up a tree with Jesus on top is worshiping him the way I like, thanks for trying to make it say something else.

I suppose the pagan part is lost once its Jesus your celebrating.
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Except that Grace in the mainstream Christian context is not being able to honour God however you want, it is honouring him in a manner that He finds pleasing.

As He said, you shall have no other Gods before me, and honouring Odin by mimicking his sacrifice of nailing himself to the World Tree to learn the secrets of the runes likely will be seen as honouring another God.
 
Toontown said:
He could discover (too late) that the whole sordid story is a trick perpetrated by Supergod as a test. Whoever worships the false lunatic god of the bible fails the test.
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logger said:
Too late for what?

If you're correct, you and I lose nothing.
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Read the above exchange with comprehension, and you will see that your response is a non sequitur.

If my speculation is correct, then you are flunking the test, by worshipping a false lunatic god.

Lucky for us, both our speculations are unlikely to be correct. But mine is more likely than yours. Yours is crazy.
 
Slowvehicle said:
You continue to try to look past the fact that your "salvation" is no more than "salvation" from what your 'god' will do to you if you don't let it "save" you...
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That doesn't change anything. Should the drowning man refuse help from the person who pushed them in the water?

"I'm just gonna go ahead and drown. That'll show him."
 
The Greater Fool said:
Actually, logger has already established logger has 'the grace of god' to worship as logger sees fit, accepting and rejecting parts of the Bible that suit logger's sensibilities. No getting it 'your way' there, no sirree.

While logger gets it logger's way (calling it god's way), we are criticized for doing it our way. The actual criticism is that we are not doing it logger's way.
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Further since god gave us free will we should do it our way or we are throwing gods' gift back in his teeth.
 
tsig said:
Further since god gave us free will we should do it our way or we are throwing gods' gift back in his teeth.
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Not really. Logger's god only gave us free will so we could voluntarily choose to love Him - or else Logger's god will have his boy Satan work us over forever.

It's an odd kind of free will.
 
Toontown said:
Not really. Logger's god only gave us free will so we could voluntarily choose to love Him - or else Logger's god will have his boy Satan work us over forever.

It's an odd kind of free will.
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People seem quite capable of choosing Satan. Odd it may be, but to the extent people actually make different choices, it's free.
 
marplots said:
That doesn't change anything. Should the drowning man refuse help from the person who pushed them in the water?

"I'm just gonna go ahead and drown. That'll show him."
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Interesting bit of misdirection. A more apt analogy would be a thug who tells a person who was not drowning that the thug would push them in the water and hold them under if they did not let the thug save them from being pushed in and held under...

All 'god's' "salvation" "saves" one from is what 'god' will do in the future if one does not let it "save" them now. Does pushing a man in to drown make the "pusher" worthy of "worship"?
 
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marplots said:
That doesn't change anything. Should the drowning man refuse help from the person who pushed them in the water?

"I'm just gonna go ahead and drown. That'll show him."
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No it's more like if God was holding a gun to your head saying "don't make me pull the trigger!" But then he pulls the trigger and it's your own fault for not stopping him.
 
marplots said:
People seem quite capable of choosing Satan. Odd it may be, but to the extent people actually make different choices, it's free.
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Interesting that you seem to be saying that one's only choices are binary: this invented 'god' or its invented 'adversary' (which is, at least in legend, a creation of the invented 'god').
 
marplots said:
People seem quite capable of choosing Satan. Odd it may be, but to the extent people actually make different choices, it's free.
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Maybe some people have love switches in their brains they can flip at will, whether it's justified or not. I don't have one of those.

Maybe some people could convince themselves to love anything to avoid torture. Could you force yourself to love Caligula to avoid the torture chamber?
 
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I could no more choose to believe in the Christian God than I could choose to believe that the sky is green.
 
Toontown said:
Maybe some people have love switches in their brains they can flip at will, whether it's justified or not. I don't have one of those.

Maybe some people could convince themselves to love anything to avoid torture. Could you force yourself to love Caligula to avoid the torture chamber?
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Does it count if one "loves" a monster only to escape its wrath? WHat happens when the monster discovers one's motivations?
 
Slowvehicle said:
Does it count if one "loves" a monster only to escape its wrath? WHat happens when the monster discovers one's motivations?
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That's the problem. An all-knowing monster would know if you're faking it. That love switch has to turn on true love, or your eternal agony will know no limit.

Actually that's only half the problem. If it's a monster, you can't trust it to hold up it's end of the bargain. It could just go ahead and turn you over to Satan anyway. Maybe it just doesn't like you.

But lucky for us, it's an imaginary problem. Except for the crazies such beliefs spawn.
 
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