80 Years of Subtle Sexism

[Magrat]

Feminism would have gained much more ground by now if it were run by men.

Right, mar. There would be the Annual Wet Tee shirt Contest for Equality, the NOW would be run by Donald Trump, and nobody would wear a bra.

 

[Roadtoad]

Feminism would have gained much more ground by now if it were run by men.

(Please tell me you're trolling.)

 

[marplots]

(Please tell me you're trolling.)

One has to travel where the humor leads. The muse commands and I obey.

 

[theprestige]

I'm surprised the thread has gotten so far without anyone citing this classic:

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'm surprised the thread has gotten so far without anyone citing this classic:

And as has been pointed out for just as long as people have cited that classic: having big muscles and being super strong is a male fantasy for themselves, not a female fantasy imposed upon males.

 

[Ziggurat]

And as has been pointed out for just as long as people have cited that classic: having big muscles and being super strong is a male fantasy for themselves, not a female fantasy imposed upon males.

No.

Both Barbie and He-Man are body images imposed from outside. Kids don't care whether that body image is imposed by men or by women, they still internalize it. If you think that girls don't judge other girls on their appearance, you haven't been paying attention. And women do want men who are muscular, not fat.

 

[TragicMonkey]

No.

Yes.

Both Barbie and He-Man are body images imposed from outside. Kids don't care whether that body image is imposed by men or by women, they still internalize it.

Moving the goalposts or misunderstanding the argument? The argument isn't about whether the ideals are outside/inside but imposed by one gender on another.

If you think that girls don't judge other girls on their appearance, you haven't been paying attention.

I haven't said a thing like that, and don't see how it could be extrapolated from what I did say...or how it's relevant.

And women do want men who are muscular, not fat.

False dichotomy. Women prefer muscle to fat, yes, but they prefer leaner and less muscular than He-Man. He-Man and excessively body-built men are not appealing to the mainstream of heterosexual women; they find such excess off-putting and freakish.

 

[John Jones]

And as has been pointed out for just as long as people have cited that classic: having big muscles and being super strong is a male fantasy for themselves, not a female fantasy imposed upon males.

How do you know?

 

[John Jones]

[...]
False dichotomy. Women prefer muscle to fat, yes, but they prefer leaner and less muscular than He-Man. He-Man and excessively body-built men are not appealing to the mainstream of heterosexual women; they find such excess off-putting and freakish.

How do you know?

 

[TragicMonkey]

How do you know?

Same answer to both: I know women, and I talk to them, and I read what they write. It's amazingly easy to understand women--you just have to listen to what they say, not what men think they ought to be saying.

 

[John Jones]

Same answer to both: I know women, and I talk to them, and I read what they write. It's amazingly easy to understand women--you just have to listen to what they say, not what men think they ought to be saying.

I expected something like that to both questions. You don't get to tell men what they think women ought to be saying.

Better luck next time.

 

[Magrat]

No.

Both Barbie and He-Man are body images imposed from outside. Kids don't care whether that body image is imposed by men or by women, they still internalize it. If you think that girls don't judge other girls on their appearance, you haven't been paying attention. And women do want men who are muscular, not fat.

I prefer chubby guys. So that's not true across the board. A lot of women don't want a "meathead".

 

[TragicMonkey]

I expected something like that to both questions. You don't get to tell men what they think women ought to be saying.

Better luck next time.

And you don't get to tell me what I can and can't say. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Can you refute what I've said? With anything?




Gosh, what a lot of crickets there are in here!

 

[John Jones]

And you don't get to tell me what I can and can't say. Funny how that works, isn't it?

[...]

I never tried, sweetheart. I just contradicted it. It's not funny. It's the way things are.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I never tried, sweetheart. I just contradicted it. It's not funny. It's the way things are.

I disagree. Already one woman has agreed with me. I wonder how many others will, and how many will disagree? So far by numbers I have 100% of the female vote supporting my hypotheses.

 

[marplots]

My feminine side supports it too.

(My masculine side is sleeping on the couch.)

 

[Delvo]

And a Barbie Doll at real-life size would be a freak most men don't want, too. What's the relevance?

 

[The Big Dog]

I disagree. Already one woman has agreed with me. I wonder how many others will, and how many will disagree? So far by numbers I have 100% of the female vote supporting my hypotheses.

I am not sure that one person liking chubby guys qualifies as agreeing with you, in any event, anecdote is not data.

Is there a reason you ignored the fact that he said body image was equally if not more so imposed by women?

 

[John Jones]

I disagree. Already one woman has agreed with me. I wonder how many others will, and how many will disagree? So far by numbers I have 100% of the female vote supporting my hypotheses.

State your case, and put it to a vote. I lost interest about an hour ago.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I am not sure that one person liking chubby guys qualifies as agreeing with you, in any event, anecdote is not data.

When no data is available, anecdote is all there is.

Is there a reason you ignored the fact that he said body image was equally if not more so imposed by women?

I didn't ignore it. I disagreed. He-Man and the superhero physique is a male fantasy for themselves, not a female fantasy of males. You may call my assertion of that "anecdote", but I don't see any evidence for the opposite forthcoming either.