Veganism and the Search for a Cure Diet

[Magrat]

I guess you did not look up the <low tyramine/low fermented wheat> diet. I believe that many if those people who see a benefit from 'gluten free' are actually going 'low tyramine'. It worked for me to prevent <"tyramine induced hypertension crises">. No, it's not Celiacs, it is not an allergy, it is dose dependent. Blood pressure spike severity depends how how much I eat. A snack of peanut butter on cracker, not too bad. Beer and pizza with hard cheese and preserved meats, 250/170.

I did but I guess just didn't make the connection. You're right, that could account for it. Pity they can't sort the difference and get some wheat back. Every so often I really crave a wheat tortillas.

 

[Magrat]

Don't you mean "gain even more weight?" *rimshot*

Sorry, but it was just hanging there, taunting me to make a stupid joke before somebody else did.

Never,ever apologize for a stupid joke.

 

[CORed]

Too much fried food and not enough healthy veggies, but I bet it sure tastes good and there are worse ways to go!

Not enough veggies? You can't be serious, I always eat the cole slaw.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Not enough veggies? You can't be serious, I always eat the cole slaw.

 

[casebro]

And ketchup all over the main course too.

 

[Magrat]

And ketchup all over the main course too.

And that's your fruit!

 

[Brian-M]

Alright, so along the lines of diet is/isnt genetically based, I considered the gluten free trend. I have celiac disease. Obviously, a gluten free diet keeps me from being dead. However, for the average person there is little to no benefit from it.

A couple of times I've bought a can of Wheat Gluten In Gravy from the health section of the supermarket. Didn't taste too bad, I think it was intended as a meat-substitute for vegetarians.

Haven't seen it on the shelves for years. I think the anti-gluten fad might be responsible for that.

 

[dropzone]

Never,ever apologize for a stupid joke.

Oh, so you're new and I usually don't post much here. If I post more you'll learn the folly of your statement.

 

[Magrat]

Oh, so you're new and I usually don't post much here. If I post more you'll learn the folly of your statement.

Oh honey, there is no force that could make me dislike a bad joke.

Speaking of, I'm going to pm one to you!

 

[Magrat]

A couple of times I've bought a can of Wheat Gluten In Gravy from the health section of the supermarket. Didn't taste too bad, I think it was intended as a meat-substitute for vegetarians.

Haven't seen it on the shelves for years. I think the anti-gluten fad might be responsible for that.

Texturized vegetable protein, which is a meat substitute, is delicious, imho.

 

[Dessi]

A couple of times I've bought a can of Wheat Gluten In Gravy from the health section of the supermarket. Didn't taste too bad, I think it was intended as a meat-substitute for vegetarians.

Haven't seen it on the shelves for years. I think the anti-gluten fad might be responsible for that.

You can find it in Asian grocery stores under the name "mock duck", but most veg people call it seitan. There are lots of recipes if you want to make seitan at home, including some nice slow cooker and DIY tofurkey variations. My personal preference is the Vegan Zombie recipe:

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

And that's your fruit!

No, no. The USDA under Reagan established that ketchup is a vegetable.

 

[Magrat]

No, no. The USDA under Reagan established that ketchup is a vegetable.

What?! That's silly!

 

[Brian-M]

No, no. The USDA under Reagan established that ketchup is a vegetable.

Not explicitly:

Because there were a host of viable, alternate food options not specifically mentioned in the report, the FNS gave state agencies authority to explore additional alternates as long as they were reported to the FNS and met the meal crediting requirements. Bread that was not made of enriched flour would not count as a bread alternate, but a state "could credit a condiment such as pickle relish as a vegetable (Section II, 5)".

While ketchup was not specifically mentioned as a potential substitute, critics demonstrated outrage in Congress and in the media against the Ronald Reagan administration for cutting school lunch budgets and allowing ketchup and other condiments to count as vegetables.

But anyway...

What?! That's silly!

Really? Why?

Would you think it silly to count fresh tomatoes as a vegetable?

What about if you crushed the tomatoes into tomato paste? Does it stop being a vegetable because it's mushed-up?

What about if you mixed a little sugar, salt, onion, garlic, ect, into the paste? Does adding extra ingredients somehow reduce the total vegetable content?

At what point in the process of making ketchup do tomatoes stop being a vegetable?

 

[bigred]

What about if you crushed the tomatoes into tomato paste? Does it stop being a vegetable because it's mushed-up?

Yep. It is no longer a vegetable in itself, but something made FROM a vegetable. Pedantic I guess, but valid.

But really, who cares? Ketchup is up there w/the printing press as one of our greatest inventions

 

[McHrozni]

Yep. It is no longer a vegetable in itself, but something made FROM a vegetable. Pedantic I guess, but valid.

But really, who cares? Ketchup is up there w/the printing press as one of our greatest inventions

His definition, slightly stretched, would define bacon as a vegetable.
I therefore fully support the logic behind it

McHrozni

 

[Modified]

Would you think it silly to count fresh tomatoes as a vegetable?

What about if you crushed the tomatoes into tomato paste? Does it stop being a vegetable because it's mushed-up?

What about if you mixed a little sugar, salt, onion, garlic, ect, into the paste? Does adding extra ingredients somehow reduce the total vegetable content?

At what point in the process of making ketchup do tomatoes stop being a vegetable?

Count it as a vegetable if you want, but then for one serving you will need to eat 1/2 cup of ketchup.

 

[casebro]

1/2 cup = one serving? Then the salsa on my tacos covers me.

 

[Modified]

1/2 cup = one serving? Then the salsa on my tacos covers me.

I don't see a problem with considering salsa as vegetables, since it is usually just vegetables and spices. Ketchup, on the other hand, usually has lots of added sugar. And your point stands, people do eat salsa in significant quantities, unlike ketchup.

 

[blutoski]

I don't see a problem with considering salsa as vegetables, since it is usually just vegetables and spices. Ketchup, on the other hand, usually has lots of added sugar. And your point stands, people do eat salsa in significant quantities, unlike ketchup.

Quantities aside, there's a logical flaw in Brian-M's argument, as he's attempting to say that because there are gradients, there can't be a distinction between the endpoints.

The fallacy has different names; wikipedia calls it [Continuum Fallacy]

"You can't say in what processing step ketchup stopped being tomatoes, therefore ketchup is a vegetable."
"You can't say in what processing step corn syrup stopped being corn, therefore corn syrup is a vegetable."
"You can't say what day my grandmother stopped being a baby, therefore my 99 year old grandmother is a baby."

Common sense alone should tell us this argument format is invalid, but it finds a happy home in skeptic forums.

What's missing is that the categories have many factors, and there's a "point" to the categorization. In the case of dietary guidelines, vegetables are recommended due to their health benefits. At some point on the manufacturing journey, ketchup stopped having those health benefits (removal of insoluble fiber and water mass, addition of sugar, basically inverting the nutritent/calorie ratio that makes vegetables a better health choice).

Since the purpose of the legislation was allegedly to shape healthier dietary choices, ignoring the impact of processing was abandoning the stated goal. It was a sellout to industry lobbying.