3point14
Pi
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2005
- Messages
- 23,073
You'd be really, really hard pressed to find much mention of Satan in the bible. I mean, he's there, but really he's just a bit part. More of an extra really. And the bit with the snake is retconned in.
He's got a part in Job. And he does a fair bit of inflicting in that - or is it second hand, and does god do it? I forget.
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
In Job It is not the same "entity" or at least until was until it was retconned into a satan. In reality in job it was more adversary/advocate for the bet, the beast in apocalypse is a different entity, then there is lucifer which is not supposed to be satan but a political entity.
Basically all that Satan stuff is near 99% to 99.9% apocrypha.
ETA: apocrypha is not the correct word as it comes from popular myths, not from not accepted bible text. I can't remember the technical word.
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Too many bad guys in this story.
TubbaBlubba
Knave of the Dudes
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
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- 12,942
A "Satan" is really more of a biblical stock character. A demon who shows up to screw with humans, sometimes working with God. Probably Zoroastrian dualism had some influence and Satan gradually turns into more of a cosmic force - yet still in the Gospels we see him running errands for God.
Non-canonical?
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.
Probably true. The corollary, just as true, is that the greatest trick the gods ever pulled was convincing the world they do exist.. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.
. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.
Yeah! But he has a lot of company in this when you think of all the things the wolrd doesn't believe exist, from unicorns to a free lunch. It must be an easy trick.
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
Even if he could, Couldn't god just stop him? Does Satan [sic] have some sort of cosmic kyrptonite?
Meadmaker
Unregistered
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2004
- Messages
- 29,033
The references I know of in the Bible:
He appeared to Jesus in the dessert to tempt him.
He hangs out in a lake of fire at the end of the world in Revelations.
He makes a bet with God in Job, but God does the dirty work of killing Job's family and kine.
No worldly influence there.
Other references:
The Serpent in the Garden of Eden is equated with Satan, though the Bible calls it The Serpent. In the book of Wisdom, an apocryphal book found in the Catholic but not Protestant Bible, the equation is made.
In Isaiah, the morning star is presented as a fake God, who is replaced by a much more powerful sun. It represents a king of that day, but is often said to represent Satan. I believe, but am not certain, that the word in the Greek translation is Lucifer. I suppose I'll have to look that up now.
So, no magic powers or worldly influence from the Bible. Just temptation.
ETA: Yes, the word in Isaiah is Lucifer, although it is Latin, not Greek. That is the only place where that word is used in the Bible.
He appeared to Jesus in the dessert to tempt him.
He hangs out in a lake of fire at the end of the world in Revelations.
He makes a bet with God in Job, but God does the dirty work of killing Job's family and kine.
No worldly influence there.
Other references:
The Serpent in the Garden of Eden is equated with Satan, though the Bible calls it The Serpent. In the book of Wisdom, an apocryphal book found in the Catholic but not Protestant Bible, the equation is made.
In Isaiah, the morning star is presented as a fake God, who is replaced by a much more powerful sun. It represents a king of that day, but is often said to represent Satan. I believe, but am not certain, that the word in the Greek translation is Lucifer. I suppose I'll have to look that up now.
So, no magic powers or worldly influence from the Bible. Just temptation.
ETA: Yes, the word in Isaiah is Lucifer, although it is Latin, not Greek. That is the only place where that word is used in the Bible.
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Jesus the Logos [God Creator] in gJohn claimed the Jews emulated their father [the Devil/Satan].
John 8:44--- Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
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Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
No, his greatest trick was taking the name Jehovah and convincing us that he is God.. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.
No need for Kryptonite. A few iron chariots will do the trick.Nay_Sayer said:
Yet more proof that 'God' isn't who he says he is...
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist., Moderator
Satan appears in Job just as someone for God to talk to. God himself inflicts all of Job's suffering.
Otherwise, you're not going to see Satan almost anywhere in the Old Testament.
ETA: To my memory, the popular idea of Satan came from illiterate and/or firebrand itinerant European preachers, drawing on a variety of pagan cultural myths and mixing liberally with vague assertions of biblical authority.
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Alright, I looked it up and read some of the first chapter. It is Satan and, although God gives him permission to do so, Satan does the naughty to Job.
"And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord." KJV
Who needs a devil when his very god itself is as evil and vile and heinous as anyone can envisage the worst of devils to be???
The Jewish Sky Daddy has admitted himself that he is a deceiver and liar and conspirator and doer and bringer of evil.
Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
2 Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets
2 Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets
Notice here what he admits to doing..... and all for what... to glorify himself... how devilish is that???
Ezekiel 20:25-26 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live; And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.
Look how he cheats and tricks poor Ahab so as to push him to his death... how nasty and evil is that???
1 Kings 22:22-23 The angel answered, ‘I will go out and become a spirit of lies in the mouths of Ahab’s prophets—they will all speak lies.’ So the Lord said, ‘Yes, that will fool Ahab. Go out and do that.’ So that is what has happened here. The Lord made your prophets lie to you. The Lord himself decided to bring this disaster to you.
But what about this one where he admits that he sends false prophets who actually can do miracles .... and why... TO LEAD PEOPLE ASTRAY... what a vile devil!!!
Deuteronomy 13:1-3
- 13:1If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
- 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
- 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
So I guess the Jews had no need for a devil at all... their despot in outer space was the devil already.... who but the vilest of demons and devils.... who but the most heinous of monsters would say stuff like this?
- Leviticus 26:14-32 If ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;.....I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.....And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
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