Continuation Part 19: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[bagels]

Clearly there is something very odd (to be kind) in a poster repeating things that not only are marginal at best vis-a-vis the case but have been disproven numerous times.

Take the window climb. The young man clearly can reach from the bottom sill to the top window's bottom sill and from his walk with the lawyers we can see he isn't a giant. It is obvious that the climb is easily possible yet we have to endure repeated claims that it was impossible. Odd they would bars on a window that difficult to reach.

If Amanda had been on a board repeating thing as odd, Vixen would use that behavior as proof she was capable of murrrrrderrrr.

I agree which is why I'm no longer even trying to argue for innocence. But just some common ground that we can agree a guilty Amanda was extremely fortunate with how her case developed. She staged a silly break-in but then miraculously her accomplice happened to have a history of extremely similar break-ins. She stabs the kitchen knife in but manages to do it in just a way that the wound is compatible with the same small knife that would have made the other wounds. Then she manages to clean off every last red blood cell which are detectable by forensic tests down to 1 part per 10 million+. She waltzes into the interrogation room (almost literally if we go by early reports) without a lawyer or asking to see the US consulate, and waltzes out making the police look like idiots. Both eyewitnesses are so stupid they tell the police the same thing in the first week of the investigation when their memories would be freshest and the investigation the most urgent: We saw nothing. We know nothing. The lead forensic scientist in the case states, for the record, that if TMB is negative "you can be sure it's not blood." ruining their luminol positive TMB negative evidence. Rudy is captured on CCTV scouting the cottage before Amanda knows she doesn't have work, making it look like he's just a burglar. Rudy confesses to his friend on Skype that he was there during the murder freely implicating himself but for no reason at all says "Amanda wasn't there." And then when he later does try to blame her his story is so preposterous and full of holes not even PGP believe it. As I posted a few continuations ago, Amanda the murderer is a miracle girl that didn't need the mafia to help her, and I just want Vixen to acknowledge it

 

[Methos]

Thanks for this, Methos.

There has yet to be the kind of factoid Vixen trots out, that does not collapse when one dials it back, traces it back to its origins. A speculation quite quickly becomes a factoid, which in turn feeds a confirmation bias.

And then some other guilter quotes it as rock-solid-fact.

It would be better if people on this thread committed themselves to evidence-based posting, rather than simply read cut-and-paste books on Amazon.

I'm with you on that... Remember the "Bleach Receipts"?
They were in

La squadra Ert (esperti ricerca tracce) venerdì mattina però nel suo monolocale in corso Garibaldi ha trovato due scontrini che comprovano l'acquisto (in momenti diversi e ben prima delle 10) di altrettante confezioni di candeggina Ace il 2 novembre, la mattina dopo l'uccisione di Meredith Kercher.

and out

Mentre la caccia al quarto uomo continua nel massimo riserbo, il giallo di Perugia perde uno dei tasselli che nelle ultime ore erano parsi risolutivi: nei verbali sulla perquisizione in casa di Raffaele Sollecito non ci sono scontrini datati 2 novembre, il giorno dopo l'assassinio della studentessa inglese Meredith Kercher. Di quei due scontrini si era parlato come di uno degli indizi più pesanti a carico del giovane che è in carcere insieme ad Amanda Knox e a Patrick Lumumba Diya, di una prova dell'acquisto in un supermercato di Perugia di due flaconi di candeggina utilizzata per far sparire ogni traccia dell'omicidio.

of the Italian media on November 18th, 2007. Barbie had this to report for "newsweek", quite a long time after Italy went to sleep that day (she should have been aware of the second article before she wrote her's):

Investigators also said the knife had been bleached (bleach removes blood but not DNA, investigators said at a press conference), and that they had found receipts in Sollecito's apartment dated Nov. 2—the morning after the murder—for the purchase of two liters of bleach.

But Barbie was on a mission "against the Seattle message machine", so it's not surprising that the bleach receipts re-surfaced in her book (page 54):

Several days later, when Raffaele was arrested, police searched his apartment and found a receipt for Ace brand bleach, purchased the morning of November 4, 2007, at 8:15. That bleach was probably used to clean his shoes and maybe even the knife.

...

 

[Planigale]

Incorrect: Amanda did not call the police once (yet rang her mother, for the first time since she departed the US, THREE times, and lied to police about it). Raff only rang police once they had already arrived.

The person who best dismisses this fantasy is the pro-guilt poster Leila Schapps? If you look at her posts on one of the PMF web sites she details in a very detailed fashion why the idea that Sollecito called the carabinieri after the arrival of the postal police is nonsense. Most people here will take seriously a well argued case regardless of co conclusions a poster draws.

 

[acbytesla]

Just for the record: Testimony of Francesco Pasquali page 8:

Pro-Guilt Author Will Sawive gives the exact weight as 3.99 kilograms, page 143 of "The Study Abroad Murder" don't ask me how he got it

So 8.796 pounds

 

[Grinder]

For a start, the hard drives were not fried by the police. Raff's ASUS was already broken and cops recovered Filomena's laptop data.

Please show me the evidence the laptops were ever 'fried'.

Following the tests carried out, by various interveners, it therefore appears that the Toshiba disk belonging to Miss A Knox’s Toshiba-brand laptop was damaged with problems evident in the electronic board, which resulted as being inactive, just like the other two. While the contents of two of the three disks have been recovered, following the Krollontrak company’s diagnosis, the third disk seems to have been also damaged in its component mechanics, while CBL Data’s and Recovery Tech’s diagnoses confirm that the third disk has been damaged in its electronic component.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/evidence-destroyed/

Now what I found interesting is the PIP meme has been that all the hard drives were fried beyond all hope but that isn't true. The two or three damaged computer hard drives were recovered by March of 2008.

 

[acbytesla]

Following the tests carried out, by various interveners, it therefore appears that the Toshiba disk belonging to Miss A Knox’s Toshiba-brand laptop was damaged with problems evident in the electronic board, which resulted as being inactive, just like the other two. While the contents of two of the three disks have been recovered, following the Krollontrak company’s diagnosis, the third disk seems to have been also damaged in its component mechanics, while CBL Data’s and Recovery Tech’s diagnoses confirm that the third disk has been damaged in its electronic component.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/evidence-destroyed/

Now what I found interesting is the PIP meme has been that all the hard drives were fried beyond all hope but that isn't true. The two or three damaged computer hard drives were recovered by March of 2008.

This is not news. We've known for a long time that at least some of the data was recovered from 2 of the machines.

 

[Vixen]

So, Mignini has finally (8 years later) been sanctioned for unlawfully depriving a suspect of the assistance of counsel. Same exact situation applies to Knox, of course, so she's going to win here ECtHR case . . . eventually.

Anyone know what is Mignini's punishment? Demotion to night court? No pasta for a week?

Hello? The punishment was a censure. That was the punishment.

 

[Vixen]

Here we go again. It's as if this was not addressed in this very continuation.

Please do not include Judge Massei (or his partner-at-trial) in this. Massei wrote that he believed Rudy did not go in through the window not because of "doability", but because Rudy would not have climbed up twice - so as to perform the operations Massei (wrongly) thought necessary to achieve entry.

The relevant part of the Massei report was posted here for you - yet you soldier on undaunted.

Massei visited the cottage. He has a better idea of what happened or did not happen than you.

 

[Vixen]

So 8.796 pounds

So 8lbs 13oz. Don't forget the fragment that fell off so probably > 9lbs.

 

[Vixen]

Huh!? First you say that it was only a technical wrist-slap that Mignini got when his professional peers censured him - censured him for failing to provide a suspect, then arrestee a lawyer.......

You called a constitutional guarantee, "a technical oversight of a rule". Which shows this thread where you stand on the rights accorded to all citizens, designed to prevent the very wrongful prosecution/witch hunt which followed....

Take a look at the response offered to this line of thinking, Vixen, I beg you. That response is called a non sequitor.

At least you acknowledged posting a picture which actually refuted the claim you made on another matter. I'll give you that.

A censure is a censure. It's the teacher's equivalent of telling you not to do it again, instead of sending you to the headmaster's study for a caning or expelling you.

"'Williams', I will not tell you again."

 

[Vixen]

"the wicked know no shame"

Quite. Bloody footprints, bloody faucet and light switch and we are asked to believe the pair are innocent.

"Er, oh yeah, my ear must have been bleeding."

Riiight.

 

[Vixen]

Well what have we learned?

Mignini was convicted of violating the constitutional rights of Raffaele and was given the harshest censure possible by the CSM.

Rudi was a professional basketball player most likely taller than the climbing enthusiast.

The rock weighed about 9 lbs and would be easily thrown by a professional athlete the 10 feet to the window.

There was more loot at the cottage than the lawyers' office.

The MO of the lawyers' office and the cottage were eerily similar for consistence.

"Aw, that didn't hurt," Cheech and Chong.

Rudy was average height, maybe slightly above.

He has a small lightweight hammer, yet you claim he went scrabbling around in the dark for a boulder to chuck at a semi closed shuttered window, when cctvv show he followed Amanda or Mez in the front door.

There was more loot at the cottage, yet it was completely untouched - including Amanda's €300- rent and Filomena's gold jewellery - except for Mez' property.

The MO was not eerily similar to the lawyers'. For a start, there were at least two of them at the lawyers' to be able to shift the printer and all the other effects. There was no rape and murder at the lawyers.

We learn the alibi of the pair is hopelessly pathetic. We have Raff's dirty great footprint on the bath mat for a start in the blood of his fellow human being. What did Mez ever do to him?

 

[Vixen]

Exactly. As we've seen in the case of Guede (and Sollecito), there is - thankfully - an apparent opportunity for academic advancement while in prison in Italy

A clerical oversight by a dedicated professional in your world view is akin to mayhem, rape and murder? That's very proportionate, I'm sure.

 

[Vixen]

I have a reliable but of course undisclosed source confirming it was four ounces. ....but have it your way. Let's assume it was 4kg.
Do you know that average high school kids "shot put" a 12 pound weight (about 5kg) 50 feet. Let me repeat that....AVERAGE...FIFTY FEET.

So even nerdy Raff and diminutive Amanda were able to pick it up and throw it. And the point you are making is...?

 

[Vixen]

OH NO!!!!
Is Vixen parroting the "Raff called after the police arrived thing again"??????
How many LYING prosecutors have to be corrected by the court judges for the PGP to stop parroting this lie???????

The closest the defence can come to timing Raff's phone call is within a minute or so of the postal police arriving, who objectively timed their arrival as 12:34. Even if the clock was 15" slow, that was still 12:49.

We know Amanda rang Filomena circa 12:10 and Raff had been round to see the cottage with Amanda as when Filomena rang circa 12:34 she was told of the break-in. Raff said her door was "wide open" when he arrived. Amanda had been there earlier at circa 10:30-ish and claimed to have had a shower amongst all this mayhem, she claims she did not notice, apart from a huge glob of blood, which became progressively smaller and smaller throughout the trial until it was described as a "speck", and whoever had left the front door open "to empty the trash" didn't pass her going back in. The big question is, even if Raff did call police a few nanoseconds before they arrived, how does that explain the gross negligence in not calling them earlier? I would suggest, the pair knew perfectly well that poor Mez lay dead behind the locked door.

 

[Vixen]

No it didn't but if you want it's true factoid weight ask the pro-guilt guys. I think they estimate 11 on the Richter Scale.

Now you've been told either Raff or Amanda threw that rock to stage the burglary, no doubt you'll be hurriedly revising your argument to, "Oh my gosh, there's no way the kids could possibly lift a granite slab of that weight and aim it accurately on target from 10 feet away".

 

[Vixen]

Now you're kidding yourself Bill. I can't see it happening. It should, but it wont.

So Drs Stefanoni and Mignini should be locked up, yet murderers should roam free? Incredible.

 

[Vixen]

Wow deja vu what an unexpected development in this thread! Did you manage to resolve all the issues that make Raff ringing the police after they've arrived incredibly implausible? Like the fact that aside from calling the postal police there was a flurry of other calls that made up 55% of the time the postal police claimed to be at the cottage, but never saw either student on the phone once ever? The fact that the CCTV timestamps the Carabinieri walking towards the cottage 4 minutes before the Carabinieri patrol car radios dispatch asking for directions to the cottage? The fact that Meredith's friend is certain she parted ways before reaching the cottage with Meredith at 8:55, but Meredith is timestamped arriving alone at the cottage on CCTV at 8:51?

Or do you just continue to mindlessly believe your original conclusion because it helps your case? I wonder!

So the cctv clock was slow by 4 minutes. So what stopped your heroes calling the police an hour earlier?

I know there is no arguing with a zealot, but I'll try.

 

[Vixen]

Wow they found blood near Filomena's room with Meredith and Amanda's DNA in it I've been backing the wrong horse this whole time! Gotta go!

Anyway you're continuing to miss the broader point. You and every PGP that has ever existed. If I ask random strangers a hypothetical question - you come upon a crime scene with what appears to be a break-in at the upper story window which was reachable by climbing the metal bars on the window below. The crime scene has significant and definitive timestamped traces of a burglar that was previously connected by criminal evidence to a prior break-in in the same neighborhood that involved a climb up metal grating to an upper story window and balcony. Explain to me your theory about the break-in? 90% would say well duh, the same guy broke into both places. 10% would go, maybe there's a trick, it's a red herring, maybe the obvious solution isn't the correct one, perhaps someone was specifically trying to frame this burglar and knew just how to do it.

0% would go: a break-in in a window? It couldn't happen. It's practically impossible. What a silly idea. Burglars don't break into cottages. Who would believe such a thing? It shouldn't even be considered for a single second! And yet every PGP does this. This is interesting. What separates the PGP from the rest of the population from seeing that this break-in only helps Amanda and doesn't hurt her? It's because you're buried in your belief. You can't separate your belief from making an objective look at the case.

So we have a break in, clearly visible on approach to the cottage. Amanda approached 10:30-ish and had a good mosey around after noticing the front door swinging wide open. The police don't believe she had a shower then. Why's that, do you think?

So we have a classic break in. So why didn't Amanda CALL THE POLICE once? Come on, answer the question.

 

[Vixen]

I'm with you on that... Remember the "Bleach Receipts"?
They were in
and out

of the Italian media on November 18th, 2007. Barbie had this to report for "newsweek", quite a long time after Italy went to sleep that day (she should have been aware of the second article before she wrote her's):

But Barbie was on a mission "against the Seattle message machine", so it's not surprising that the bleach receipts re-surfaced in her book (page 54):
...

There's no doubt the two ACE bleach bottles were new. As his cleaner testified, she was ordered by Raff not to use bleach. Yet the place reeked of the stuff when the cops paid a visit.

Why did Raff soak the bottom of his Nike daps in bleach?