Continuation Part 19: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[analemma]

Incorrect: Amanda did not call the police once (yet rang her mother, for the first time since she departed the US, THREE times, and lied to police about it). Raff only rang police once they had already arrived.

OH NO!!!!
Is Vixen parroting the "Raff called after the police arrived thing again"??????
How many LYING prosecutors have to be corrected by the court judges for the PGP to stop parroting this lie???????

 

[sept79]

OH NO!!!!
Is Vixen parroting the "Raff called after the police arrived thing again"??????
How many LYING prosecutors have to be corrected by the court judges for the PGP to stop parroting this lie???????

"the wicked know no shame"

 

[Bill Williams]

The fact is the climb is doable.

The teams of forensic police and four separate judges do not support your What If...? scenario.

Here we go again. It's as if this was not addressed in this very continuation.

Please do not include Judge Massei (or his partner-at-trial) in this. Massei wrote that he believed Rudy did not go in through the window not because of "doability", but because Rudy would not have climbed up twice - so as to perform the operations Massei (wrongly) thought necessary to achieve entry.

The relevant part of the Massei report was posted here for you - yet you soldier on undaunted.

 

[Bill Williams]

"A technical oversight of a rule"!!?!???!???!?

Well, we know where you stand on the due process scale..... is being required to give testimony against oneself next? Are we to throw women onto a lake and if they sink, they're not a witch?

It was not a witch hunt. The fact is, a man and a woman were found at the scene of a crime when police arrived.

Stop being sexist.

Huh!? First you say that it was only a technical wrist-slap that Mignini got when his professional peers censured him - censured him for failing to provide a suspect, then arrestee a lawyer.......

You called a constitutional guarantee, "a technical oversight of a rule". Which shows this thread where you stand on the rights accorded to all citizens, designed to prevent the very wrongful prosecution/witch hunt which followed....

Take a look at the response offered to this line of thinking, Vixen, I beg you. That response is called a non sequitor.

At least you acknowledged posting a picture which actually refuted the claim you made on another matter. I'll give you that.

 

[Grinder]

Well what have we learned?

Mignini was convicted of violating the constitutional rights of Raffaele and was given the harshest censure possible by the CSM.

Rudi was a professional basketball player most likely taller than the climbing enthusiast.

The rock weighed about 9 lbs and would be easily thrown by a professional athlete the 10 feet to the window.

There was more loot at the cottage than the lawyers' office.

The MO of the lawyers' office and the cottage were eerily similar for consistence.

 

[Diocletus]

Well what have we learned?

Mignini was convicted of violating the constitutional rights of Raffaele and was given the harshest censure possible by the CSM.

So, Mignini has finally (8 years later) been sanctioned for unlawfully depriving a suspect of the assistance of counsel. Same exact situation applies to Knox, of course, so she's going to win here ECtHR case . . . eventually.

Anyone know what is Mignini's punishment? Demotion to night court? No pasta for a week?

 

[Bill Williams]

So, Mignini has finally (8 years later) been sanctioned for unlawfully depriving a suspect of the assistance of counsel. Same exact situation applies to Knox, of course, so she's going to win here ECtHR case . . . eventually.

Anyone know what is Mignini's punishment? Demotion to night court? No pasta for a week?

It not only looks good for the ECHR application, but also for the satellite persecutions prosecutions. Like against the parents, Sollecito/Gumbal, defamation against Knox.

All it took was a court brave enough to unhook this case from sex-games and pooh in the toilet. The worst way to end an embarrassment is to extend it, the best way to end an embarrassment is to end it; and acknowledge it.

Life will suck for Mignini. But hell, maybe Stefanoni will eventually get that Ph.D. which has so far eluded her!

 

[Mike1711]

It was 4KG.

I have a reliable but of course undisclosed source confirming it was four ounces. ....but have it your way. Let's assume it was 4kg.
Do you know that average high school kids "shot put" a 12 pound weight (about 5kg) 50 feet. Let me repeat that....AVERAGE...FIFTY FEET.

 

[sept79]

So, Mignini has finally (8 years later) been sanctioned for unlawfully depriving a suspect of the assistance of counsel. Same exact situation applies to Knox, of course, so she's going to win here ECtHR case . . . eventually.

Anyone know what is Mignini's punishment? Demotion to night court? No pasta for a week?

"No pasta for a week ?" I’m sure ‘cruel and unusual punishment’ would kick in here . . .

 

[LondonJohn]

It not only looks good for the ECHR application, but also for the satellite persecutions prosecutions. Like against the parents, Sollecito/Gumbal, defamation against Knox.

All it took was a court brave enough to unhook this case from sex-games and pooh in the toilet. The worst way to end an embarrassment is to extend it, the best way to end an embarrassment is to end it; and acknowledge it.

Life will suck for Mignini. But hell, maybe Stefanoni will eventually get that Ph.D. which has so far eluded her!

Exactly. As we've seen in the case of Guede (and Sollecito), there is - thankfully - an apparent opportunity for academic advancement while in prison in Italy

 

[acbytesla]

I have a reliable but of course undisclosed source confirming it was four ounces. ....but have it your way. Let's assume it was 4kg.
Do you know that average high school kids "shot put" a 12 pound weight (about 5kg) 50 feet. Let me repeat that....AVERAGE...FIFTY FEET.

There is no way that little rock weighed 12 lbs. No way.

 

[Mike1711]

There is no way that little rock weighed 12 lbs. No way.

No it didn't but if you want it's true factoid weight ask the pro-guilt guys. I think they estimate 11 on the Richter Scale.

 

[Bill Williams]

Exactly. As we've seen in the case of Guede (and Sollecito), there is - thankfully - an apparent opportunity for academic advancement while in prison in Italy

Don't laugh or gloat. There are some who've been involved in the Perugian legal debacle who know full well that their own legal future is mirky.

I wonder, though, when they are brought in for questioning, will they be allowed a lawyer and will it all be ttranscribed?

Imagine the look on Stefanoni's face when they bring her a lawyer, turn on the video, and then she sees Anna Donnino in the room as a mediator!!! It's at that point that Stef goes fast-track and aims at a reduced sentence!

 

[acbytesla]

Don't laugh or gloat. There are some who've been involved in the Perugian legal debacle who know full well that their own legal future is mirky.

I wonder, though, when they are brought in for questioning, will they be allowed a lawyer and will it all be ttranscribed?

Imagine the look on Stefanoni's face when they bring her a lawyer, turn on the video, and then she sees Anna Donnino in the room as a mediator!!! It's at that point that Stef goes fast-track and aims at a reduced sentence!

Now you're kidding yourself Bill. I can't see it happening. It should, but it wont.

 

[Methos]

It was 4KG.

I have a reliable but of course undisclosed source confirming it was four ounces. ....but have it your way. Let's assume it was 4kg.
Do you know that average high school kids "shot put" a 12 pound weight (about 5kg) 50 feet. Let me repeat that....AVERAGE...FIFTY FEET.

There is no way that little rock weighed 12 lbs. No way.

No it didn't but if you want it's true factoid weight ask the pro-guilt guys. I think they estimate 11 on the Richter Scale.

Just for the record: Testimony of Francesco Pasquali page 8:

questo è il sasso, il sasso repertato, il sasso che noi abbiamo visionato presso la squadra mobile della Polizia di Stato di Perugia e il frammento distaccato è stato ricomposto per fare la fotografia ma queste sono le dimensioni del sasso che poi ci hanno comunicato del peso di circa 4 chilogrammi.

Pro-Guilt Author Will Sawive gives the exact weight as 3.99 kilograms, page 143 of "The Study Abroad Murder" don't ask me how he got it

 

[bagels]

Incorrect: Amanda did not call the police once (yet rang her mother, for the first time since she departed the US, THREE times, and lied to police about it). Raff only rang police once they had already arrived.

Wow deja vu what an unexpected development in this thread! Did you manage to resolve all the issues that make Raff ringing the police after they've arrived incredibly implausible? Like the fact that aside from calling the postal police there was a flurry of other calls that made up 55% of the time the postal police claimed to be at the cottage, but never saw either student on the phone once ever? The fact that the CCTV timestamps the Carabinieri walking towards the cottage 4 minutes before the Carabinieri patrol car radios dispatch asking for directions to the cottage? The fact that Meredith's friend is certain she parted ways before reaching the cottage with Meredith at 8:55, but Meredith is timestamped arriving alone at the cottage on CCTV at 8:51?

Or do you just continue to mindlessly believe your original conclusion because it helps your case? I wonder!

 

[Grinder]

Wow deja vu what an unexpected development in this thread! Did you manage to resolve all the issues that make Raff ringing the police after they've arrived incredibly implausible? Like the fact that aside from calling the postal police there was a flurry of other calls that made up 55% of the time the postal police claimed to be at the cottage, but never saw either student on the phone once ever? The fact that the CCTV timestamps the Carabinieri walking towards the cottage 4 minutes before the Carabinieri patrol car radios dispatch asking for directions to the cottage? The fact that Meredith's friend is certain she parted ways before reaching the cottage with Meredith at 8:55, but Meredith is timestamped arriving alone at the cottage on CCTV at 8:51?

Or do you just continue to mindlessly believe your original conclusion because it helps your case? I wonder!

Clearly there is something very odd (to be kind) in a poster repeating things that not only are marginal at best vis-a-vis the case but have been disproven numerous times.

Take the window climb. The young man clearly can reach from the bottom sill to the top window's bottom sill and from his walk with the lawyers we can see he isn't a giant. It is obvious that the climb is easily possible yet we have to endure repeated claims that it was impossible. Odd they would bars on a window that difficult to reach.

If Amanda had been on a board repeating thing as odd, Vixen would use that behavior as proof she was capable of murrrrrderrrr.

 

[bagels]

The teams of forensic police and four separate judges do not support your What If...? scenario.

It was a transitory student accommodation with no reason to be of any great interest to professional thieves, other than electronic equipment, which, tellingly, was left untouched, as was Filomena's gold jewellery. If Rudy's MO was stealing laptops, then whoever simulated this one, did not copy Rudy well.

Bits of paper scattered about to give the appearance of ransacking were found ON TOP of the duvet covering Mez, one in Filomena's room, had Amanda's footprint on it, glass from the window was ON TOP of the strewn about clothes and most incriminating of all, a footprint encased in blood leading INTO Filomena's room, contained the MIXED DNA of Mez and Amanda (no DNA at all of Rudy in the burglary room). Amanda must have entered that room AFTER Mez' assault. In addition, a shard of glass from Filomena's window was found on Mez' floor. Therefore, Amanda was LYING when she claims she had no idea Filomena's room was in turmoil the next morning, claiming the door was shut, yet Raff said it was "wide open". WHY LIE ABOUT IT???

No doubt someone could climb up to the second floor window, should they be greatly motivated to, as was the professional pro -Knox climber. However, it doesn't logically follow, they did.

Wow they found blood near Filomena's room with Meredith and Amanda's DNA in it I've been backing the wrong horse this whole time! Gotta go!

Anyway you're continuing to miss the broader point. You and every PGP that has ever existed. If I ask random strangers a hypothetical question - you come upon a crime scene with what appears to be a break-in at the upper story window which was reachable by climbing the metal bars on the window below. The crime scene has significant and definitive timestamped traces of a burglar that was previously connected by criminal evidence to a prior break-in in the same neighborhood that involved a climb up metal grating to an upper story window and balcony. Explain to me your theory about the break-in? 90% would say well duh, the same guy broke into both places. 10% would go, maybe there's a trick, it's a red herring, maybe the obvious solution isn't the correct one, perhaps someone was specifically trying to frame this burglar and knew just how to do it.

0% would go: a break-in in a window? It couldn't happen. It's practically impossible. What a silly idea. Burglars don't break into cottages. Who would believe such a thing? It shouldn't even be considered for a single second! And yet every PGP does this. This is interesting. What separates the PGP from the rest of the population from seeing that this break-in only helps Amanda and doesn't hurt her? It's because you're buried in your belief. You can't separate your belief from making an objective look at the case.

 

[Methos]

Didn't a leading member of the PIP approach the tabloids offering to sell nude pictures of Amanda taken in custody? Wasn't it Maori, Raff's lawyer who released highly distressing autopsy pictures to Italian tv?

I think you are thinking of Maresca putting naked pictures of Meredith's body on the screen in the court.

Maresca was legally justified in presenting evidence in a murder trial.
How is it justified for an ordinary member of the public from Injustice Anywhere to offer confidential medical nude photos of Amanda to the tabloids for money?
This is supposed to be one of Amanda's most fervent supporters!

I think that the Amanda picture meme is a factoid. It never happened but some members of the PGP kept telling this story.
Maresca had no moral right to put poor Meredith's pictures up for all to see. He also had no need as the judges had seen the pictures in a special closed session where only judges and the lawyers were present at the request of Meredith's family.

It's not a factoid. This rake really did offer nude pics of Amanda to various people including the PGP!

Another one for the record. The myth mentioned by Vixen was born, because Barbie Nadeau in an article called Nuclear-Family Fallout wrote the following (it's on page 2):

One blogger even filed a police complaint against another in Seattle. Another blogger reportedly tried to sell nudie pictures of Knox to a British tabloid.

This lead to some speculation on PMF starting with this post:

As everyone knows, I am the blogger who filed the police complaint in Seattle - not against another blogger, but rather against identified individuals who were harassing me. But who's the blogger who reportedly tried to sell nude photos of Knox to a British tabloid? How many bloggers out there could gain access to such photos, if they exist? And who would seek to gain financially in such an utterly sleazy way? Just when I thought this case couldn't get any stranger or uglier - with the arrival of Famous Potatoes - it does just that.

PMF came to the conclusion that "the blogger" Barbie Nadeau mentioned must have been Perugia Shock owner Frank, and so the "Frank tried to sell nude pictures of Amanda" Myth was born...
"Barbie + Speculation = Myth" seems to work for a lot of factoids in this case...

 

[Bill Williams]

Another one for the record. The myth mentioned by Vixen was born, because Barbie Nadeau in an article called Nuclear-Family Fallout wrote the following (it's on page 2):

This lead to some speculation on PMF starting with this post:

PMF came to the conclusion that "the blogger" Barbie Nadeau mentioned must have been Perugia Shock owner Frank, and so the "Frank tried to sell nude pictures of Amanda" Myth was born...
"Barbie + Speculation = Myth" seems to work for a lot of factoids in this case...

Thanks for this, Methos.

There has yet to be the kind of factoid Vixen trots out, that does not collapse when one dials it back, traces it back to its origins. A speculation quite quickly becomes a factoid, which in turn feeds a confirmation bias.

And then some other guilter quotes it as rock-solid-fact.

It would be better if people on this thread committed themselves to evidence-based posting, rather than simply read cut-and-paste books on Amazon.