Split Thread the TM and anti-semitism

[Meed]

Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself? When I start hearing terms like "the Jews," "the Zionists," etc, I smell an antiSemitic rat.

How is "Zionists" a racist term?

Here in Denver, I have met many people in 911 Truth who are Jewish and rabidly anti-Israeli war policies, and so far only one person in the movement I would consider possibly antiSemitic (only because he picked up on some Holocaust denial ideas and was willing to consider them seriously; he was responsive to my rebuttals however).

"Self hating Jew" is the standard response from many of those who would seek to link criticism of Israel with racism.

Israel is a theocracy pretending to be a democracy and so it shares some attributes with Iran for example.

How is it a theocracy? How is it not a democracy? That sounds like a very exaggerated claim. And saying it "shares some attributes with Iran" strikes me as meaningless.

Of course the policies of the Israeli government are as much a legitimate target of scrutiny as any other government's.

However, the big question is: Why bring up Israel in the first place? Why are we - why are truthers! - even dropping the word "Israel" here? The terrorists were not Israelis, and any imagined "inside job" can't be Israel's job since Israel isn't inside.

So EITHER you have real, tangible, unambiguous evidence that directly links Israel to the 9/11 attacks.

OR you start from a premise that Israel is inside the US government, and/or inside world terrorism, and/or Israel is a usual suspect whenever something really bad happends.
Such a premise is anti-semitic.

Since I am not aware of any real, tangible, unambiguous evidence that directly links Israel to the 9/11 attacks, I am left with only one choice when the word "Israel" is dropped into a 9/11 debate.

If truthers knew how to tell "real, tangible, unambiguous evidence" from nonsense, then they wouldn't be truthers. And no, you wouldn't need a premise that Israel is "inside the US government" to concoct a crazy theory about Israel being involved in 9/11 somehow.

 

[Oystein]

+1

There can be no doubt that Rudy Dent is an anti-Semite.

But in order to know if the following is true:


We would need to know that the people that it supposedly 'sits well with' are aware of Dent's anti-Semitism. Is being a friend on facebook enough to justify assuming this? That's not a rhetorical question - I'm not on facebook and don't know much about how it works. Does being a person's 'friend' on the site automatically mean that you are informed of what they post there?

I appreciate your skepticism. It was certainly somewhat rhetoric on my part to implicate all those "friends".

What you "see" of your FB friends depends on a number of things: Your FB settings, number of friends, how often they post, how often you use FB, personal habits. No doubt most postings go by unread or at least unprocessed.

Now Rudy Dent posts a LOT. I merely selected one posting for each of the last four days, but he posts several texts, images and videos every day, and pretty much all of it is ani-semitic, racist or otherwise hateful "alternative history". He explains, in the full version of the personal statement I quoted excerpts from, that the purpose of his FB page is essentially to disseminate the "truth" about the evil zionist overlords. So of a "friend" of Rudy's pays any attention at all, ever, to what he writes, they can't possibly miss the bigotry.

I suspect however that many of his truther "friends" became "friends" merely on name recognition after he was featured prominently by Gage and Rudkowski, and never checked out what he posts.

 

[Redwood]

+1

We would need to know that the people that it supposedly 'sits well with' are aware of Dent's anti-Semitism. Is being a friend on facebook enough to justify assuming this? That's not a rhetorical question - I'm not on facebook and don't know much about how it works. Does being a person's 'friend' on the site automatically mean that you are informed of what they post there?

Anyone who espouses an extreme minority viewpoint needs to check his bedfellows. Only a tiny minority of the public believes in Trutherism. Only a tiny minority of the public is vocally Anti-Semitic or Neo-Nazi or a Holocaust Denier. So when you find a substantial overlap amongst these, people will naturally draw conclusions. Rudy Dent isn't an isolated example. See also Eric Hufschmid, Ken O'Keefe, Christopher Bollyn, Rebekah Roth, Jim Fetzer, Karl Schwarz; the list is long.

Like it or not, that's the way life is...

 

[Meed]

Anyone who espouses an extreme minority viewpoint needs to check his bedfellows. Only a tiny minority of the public believes in Trutherism.

I wouldn't say it's an "extreme" or "tiny" minority. Also I'm not sure why you think someone espousing a minority viewpoint "needs to check his bedfellows".

 

[Oystein]

Everyone should check their bedfellows, and every FB user is responsible for their "friends".

When Richard Gage gave Rudy Dent a spot on the podium and in the limelight this last 9/11 anniversary, he could have and should have known that Rudy is a Hitler-loving Jew-hater.
When he left a spoken greeting message to start every AE911Truth "Freefall Radio" recording on Kevin Barrett's "No Lies Radio" website, he must have already been aware that Barrett is a holocaust-denying anti-semite.

 

[Meed]

and every FB user is responsible for their "friends"

Seriously? That's completely bonkers.

 

[Oystein]

Seriously? That's completely bonkers.

Sorry my wording was ambiguous.

I meant "Everyone is responsible for who they add and accept as their 'friends' on Facebook"

 

[JSanderO]

Clearly the truth guys such as Gage are willfully ignorant about antisemitism etc. when it's convenient to be. Associating with antisemites and others haters would seem to be something they WOULDN'T want to be associated with when you want to be taken seriously as a rational critical thinker.

There is that old adage..... loosely: I shall know you by the company you keep.

 

[Oystein]

There is that old adage..... loosely: I shall know you by the company you keep.

Living by an old maxim, too: The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

[Notconvinced]

Such a fondness for blacklisting people.

He's just trying to poison the well.

Observers in my world see that both my stepmom and half sister are Jewish, and I love them immensely.

It's unfortunate that so many of the 911 conspirators are Israeli.

Chertoff and Bazant are two names who clearly betrayed their authority to conceal the mass murder of nearly 3000 people. So did they do this because they are part of the plot, or because they don't want to implicate their brethren...

I doubt these two were part of the plot per se, so why would they want to go down in history as traitors? Just looking out for their own? Bought and paid for? Extorted?

 

[beachnut]

He's just trying to poison the well.

Observers in my world see that both my stepmom and half sister are Jewish, and I love them immensely.

It's unfortunate that so many of the 911 conspirators are Israeli.

Chertoff and Bazant are two names who clearly betrayed their authority to conceal the mass murder of nearly 3000 people. So did they do this because they are part of the plot, or because they don't want to implicate their brethren...

I doubt these two were part of the plot per se, so why would they want to go down in history as traitors? Just looking out for their own? Bought and paid for? Extorted?

Lies, no evidence' typical 911 truth.
Lies from 911 truth's book of BS. Mocking the murder of thousands with lies. Got evidence? No.

 

[Oystein]

Observers in my world see that both my stepmom and half sister are Jewish, and I love them immensely.

Even Adolf Eichmann, who organized the transport of hundreds of thousands of Jews to the gas chambers of Auschwitz, never grew tired of pointing out some Jews he knew personally and had great respect for.
That is a classic excuse of the anti-semite.

It's unfortunate that so many of the 911 conspirators are Israeli.

Chertoff and Bazant are two names ...

Israelis, huh? I am sure you have evidence that Zdenek Bazant is a citizen of Israel (he was born in Czechoslovakia in 1937, and lived there till 1966 when he moved to France, Canada and finally, in 1969, settled down at Northwestern U.)?
I am sure you have evidence that Michael Chertoff is an Israeli citizen?

Actually, I am sure you don't have any such evidence. You write "Israelis" because even you sense that saying what you mean - "Jews", betrays too overtly, obviously your anti-semitism,

So did they do this because they are part of the plot, or because they don't want to implicate their brethren...

Look at this vile, vague innuendo! Noooo, you are not saying it, you merely hint and insinuate what you truly believe:
That Jews commit grave crimes against America and the world because they are Jews.

Well thanks for coming out here and proving in the correct thread that you, notconvinced, are an anti-semite, too.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Look at this vile, vague innuendo! Noooo, you are not saying it, you merely hint and insinuate what you truly believe:
That Jews commit grave crimes against America and the world because they are Jews.

Well thanks for coming out here and proving in the correct thread that you, notconvinced, are an anti-semite, too.

And what a coincidence: so were the people who actually committed the murders.

 

[Oystein]

Great to see members of the civil society of the USA take a clear stand against anti-semitism - here in the form of Christopher Bollyn and his public hate speeches:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/286311730249/permalink/10153726318215250/

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: James Patrick Jordan <pweskebway@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 10:54 AM
Subject: Christopher Bollyn event
To: Dave Croteau <davidhenrycroteau@gmail.com>, Chuck Kaufmann <chuck@afgj.org>

Hi, Dave. We got your phone message yesterday. I'd be quite willing to talk to you about this when we get a chance. Unfortunately, today would be a difficult time for that, tomorrow much better. However, I do want to make clear that our decision to cancel the Christopher Bollyn event is not something we will rescind. The event simply cannot take place at the Global Justice Center.

I decided to look a little bit more at Bollyn's work and did not have to look far at all to find evidence of his anti-semitism. For instance, there was his article Chicago Thuggery: The Jewish Mafia and Obama. I could quote a couple of statements about the "Jewish mob" or "Barack Obama is serving the Jewish criminal organization that brought him to power". If people are criminal or Zionist, this is not intrinsic to a person's being religiously or ethnically Jewish. It's pretty clear that Bollyn has a problem with Jewishness itself, and we just can't provide a venue for such a speaker.

His article "Chicago's Elders of Zion and Obama's War for Profit" extends the whole pernicious fraud of the so-called Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a favorite book of Hitler's that has been thoroughly discredited, both in its authorship and its thesis that there is a Jewish conspiracy to control the world. The whole article is offensive and over the top.

So, again--I'm willing to talk to you. But you should be aware that this event will not take place at the GJC under any conditions. You should make your plans accordingly.

James...

 

[Bubba]

Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself? When I start hearing terms like "the Jews," "the Zionists," etc, I smell an antiSemitic rat. Here in Denver, I have met many people in 911 Truth who are Jewish and rabidly anti-Israeli war policies, and so far only one person in the movement I would consider possibly antiSemitic (only because he picked up on some Holocaust denial ideas and was willing to consider them seriously; he was responsive to my rebuttals however).
I DID get antiSemitic crap in my email box, but haven't seen any of this for about five years. It's there in 911 Truth but it's not endemic, in my experience.
And no, I won't dignify Holocaust denial theories with a debate. They make me puke.

Of course one is anti-Italian if one opposes Mafia crime ( /sarcasm )

How about opposition to Nazi crimes is not anti-German?

Criticizing a half white, half black president's policies is called racist?

Criticizing a black president's policies would be racist?

One is labeled anti semitic for criticizing Israeli policies/lobbyists why?

Need a thread about this phenomena?

 

[jaydeehess]

Of course one is anti-Italian if one opposes Mafia crime ( /sarcasm )

How about opposition to Nazi crimes is not anti-German?

Criticizing a half white, half black president's policies is called racist?

Criticizing a black president's policies would be racist?

One is labeled anti semitic for criticizing Israeli policies/lobbyists why?

Need a thread about this phenomena?

How is this related to this thread?

 

[Oystein]

Of course one is anti-Italian if one opposes Mafia crime ( /sarcasm )
How about opposition to Nazi crimes is not anti-German?
Criticizing a half white, half black president's policies is called racist?
Criticizing a black president's policies would be racist?
One is labeled anti semitic for criticizing Israeli policies/lobbyists why?
Need a thread about this phenomena?

This was a reply, I assume, to ChrisMohr's question, that you highlighted:

"Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself?"​

You could have given it a shorter answer:

"Yes."

 

[Bubba]

How is this related to this thread?

"Anti-mafia = anti-Italian" is on a par with "911 trutherism = antisemitic"

Some truther blaming jews is anti-semitic?
I dont know. Why should he be?


Some anti-semitic truther blaming jews is anti-semitic?
Apparently, if he's anti-semitic to begin with. Thats different.


Its like someone gets called racist only because they are critical of Obama's job performance. Ridiculous.

 

[Bubba]

This was a reply, I assume, to ChrisMohr's question, that you highlighted:

For some reason I thought no one noticed.

 

[Bubba]

This was a reply, I assume, to ChrisMohr's question, that you highlighted:

"Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself?"​

You could have given it a shorter answer: "Yes."

Someone already did that.

Besides, experience with the anti-semitism issue tells me the type of examples I offered are sorely needed, sometimes. Why just , the other day I encountered that need.....