Continuation Part 19: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[acbytesla]

A burglar is a burglar is a burglar. Calling an "unconvicted" burglar "a burglar" is against the law for obvious reasons.

By your reasoning a theft is only a theft if someone is caught and jailed. If there's no thief how can there have been a theft?

Actually, it's not against the law. At least not in the US. It might qualify as a tort as in defamation or slander. But it would be up to the plaintiff to prove that the statement was false. In Rudy's case there are certainly known elements that would make a reasonable person believe in fact Rudy is a burglar. So, regardless of whether he was convicted or not of burglary he would have to persuade a judge/jury that he wasn't one. Rudy would also have to prove that he suffered damages. Also, that the so called "false statements" lowered him in the estimation of the community.

Imagine Rudy trying to prove that he didn't burglarize the law office or Christian Tremantano's or wasn't at the nursery to steal. Keep in mind the simple fact that they discovered the knife from the nursery kitchen in his backpack would prove in a civil trial that Rudy was committing burglary.

No, I think you can call Rudy a burglar as long as you want.

 

[Bill Williams]

Imagine Rudy trying to prove that he didn't burglarize the law office or Christian Tremantano's or wasn't at the nursery to steal. Keep in mind the simple fact that they discovered the knife from the nursery kitchen in his backpack would prove in a civil trial that Rudy was committing burglary.

No, I think you can call Rudy a burglar as long as you want.

That's the problem with someone like Rudy, even without a criminal record, perhaps objecting to being called a thief. He's a convicted murderer.... but does he really want to go into a courtroom to prove he's not a thief?

The opposing lawyer would be licking his/her lips..... "Don't get many of these do you?"

It's the same with calling Stefanoni, not a doctor, incompetent. All one would need to do is retrace the cross-examination Bongiorno put her through, while showing Stefanoni the obvious and glaring errors of collection - a collection that Stefanoni's own staff filmed!

Hoots! You don't get many days like that in court.

 

[acbytesla]

That's the problem with someone like Rudy, even without a criminal record, perhaps objecting to being called a thief. He's a convicted murderer.... but does he really want to go into a courtroom to prove he's not a thief?

The opposing lawyer would be licking his/her lips..... "Don't get many of these do you?"

It's the same with calling Stefanoni, not a doctor, incompetent. All one would need to do is retrace the cross-examination Bongiorno put her through, while showing Stefanoni the obvious and glaring errors of collection - a collection that Stefanoni's own staff filmed!

Hoots! You don't get many days like that in court.

How does a convicted killer prove that being called a thief lowered society's opinion of him?

 

[RoseMontague]

The story is definitely being picked up by many outlets including the TWO HOUR radio broadcast. You may wish to check that post out again and check on all the Perugian cops in attendance. This wasn't just a quick paperwork deal.



Oh please, I'll share a little of my glory with you.

ETA - another version The disciplinary section of the Msm has imposed the sanction of censure to the pm of Perugia Giuliano Mignini, holder of the proceeding the murder of Meredith Kercher, finished under proceedings on charges of violating the law for having banned immediately after the catch (November 6, 2007), Raffaele Sollecito (acquitted last March in a final, with Amanda Knox, from the charge of murder) to have talks with a lawyer without issuing an injunction written and reasoned.

Mignini, according to the Attorney General's Office of the Supreme Court, has caused "harm to stopped," uttering "orally, with serious and inexcusable breach of law", the "extension of the right of the stopped to confer with counsel", in "stark contrast" to the norm contained in the code of criminal procedure which prescribes a "reasoned Decree" and "delivery/performance" to entitled persons.

I love the way Bing translates CSM into MSM

Too funny and glad to see Migi getting sanctioned. IIRC, this was mentioned in Raffaele's first appeal. I expect to see more come out.

 

[Grinder]

Too funny and glad to see Migi getting sanctioned. IIRC, this was mentioned in Raffaele's first appeal. I expect to see more come out.

Nice to see you Rose.

 

[Vixen]

That's not what I said at all. I said if Rudy was locked up Meredith probably would still be alive. I think it's reasonable to conclude that if the only man leaving DNA inside Meredith's body and the only man who was so drenched in Meredith's blood he was spreading it around the cottage, was instead locked up in jail that night, Meredith would have had significantly better odds of survival. Most reasonable people would agree with that, which is why I find it interesting that it's not a point any PGP bother themselves with.

Why do ALL the judges who have reviewed the case in detail (Micheli, Matteini, Massei, Nencini, Marasca) agree there was more than one perpetrator?

Your claim to know better could be seen to be delusional.

In addition, why do Amanda and Raff claim there was only one perp so vociferously? An innocent person surely would defer to forensic knowledge, as they would not know.

It's a dead giveaway when Raff repeats the same old ******** in his latest book about the morning of 2 Nov 2007 and proclaims, "there is only one person who did this: Rudy!"

It is hard to feel sympathy for a fellow so shallow and devoid of any depth. No wonder Mignini was moved to label Raff, "icy cold". Raff wears his sangfroid on his sleeve and it's hard not to feel nauseated at his supercilious smirking face in interviews.

 

[Vixen]

Not according to Webster and Rudy has been described by thousands of publications as a burglar. Do you think he'll sue?

Logical fallacy: appeal to the crowd. Eleven million Iraqis thought Saddam a marvellous chap.

 

[Vixen]

Yea, I'm with you on that. Rudy was alone in the CCTV shots. He was alone in the Milan nusery. There doesn't appear to be any other bloody footprints. I'd say 90 percent plus.

You, bagels and Desert Fox should give up the day job and apply for detective vacancies on account of your red hot sleuthing skills.

Obviously Italy struggles without your input from 5K kms away.

 

[Vixen]

Hmmmmm. That's unusual. Vixen being right.

Is Raffaele laying the groundwork in getting compensation and maybe going after Mignini?

He is rashly seeking revenge, when he should just be grateful for the get out of jail card and go away quietly and do something for the community. Vindictiveness is never a good reason to bring a complaint as courts do not like it.

 

[Vixen]

There fixed it

Her response was quick but wrong to the exchange rate question.

Maybe you don't get irony, but Italy's former ITL currency has long been the butt of jokes amongst us accountants. My little quip about Raff being lucky to get one Lire alluded to it.

(Well, a joke is never a joke if one has to explain it.)

 

[acbytesla]

Logical fallacy: appeal to the crowd. Eleven million Iraqis thought Saddam a marvellous chap.

Don't be silly. The fact is that Rudy is a burglar. At bare minimum he stole a knife from the nursery. That alone is undisputed and makes Rudy a burglar. And there is evidence that he committed 3 other burglaries minimum. The law office, Christian Tremantano and the cottage where he murdered Meredith Kercher.

Rudy could come to Seattle and attempt to sue me for slander, but I don't think he'll have much luck.

 

[acbytesla]

He is rashly seeking revenge, when he should just be grateful for the get out of jail card and go away quietly and do something for the community. Vindictiveness is never a good reason to bring a complaint as courts do not like it.

Hmmmmm. Considering that Mignini has charged him for slander, I think Raffaele's strategy is the right thing to do. Mignini now looks less credible.

 

[Vixen]

The more I read on this the more I think this may be something that the lawyers and judges bring to the CSM and not necessarily "for" a client.

The CSM is vaguely political. The presiding judge is a member of the old Berlusconi cabinet. Someone lodges a complaint (BTW did Amanda ever get round to lodging a complaint about being slapped around the head by Ficcara?).

There will be a complaints procedure, in line with good corporate governance, and if a rule has been breached, then the complaint is upheld. The Mignini one seems to be more human error by one of his staff than police corruption, as Raff did confer with his lawyers as per his right.

 

[Vixen]

A burglar is a burglar is a burglar. Calling an "unconvicted" burglar "a burglar" is against the law for obvious reasons.

By your reasoning a theft is only a theft if someone is caught and jailed. If there's no thief how can there have been a theft?

A defendant appears in court. Any previous convictions? No, m'Lud.


Clear now?

 

[Vixen]

The more I read on this the more I think this may be something that the lawyers and judges bring to the CSM and not necessarily "for" a client.

Something like that would be held internally and would be confidential.

 

[Vixen]

You could be right. I know of many professional organizations where it is well within their bylaws for a colleague to bring an accusation of misconduct of a peer, where the complainant is not the subject of the accusation.

While interesting to drill down on the mechanics of how complaints arise and are adjudicated, if one is censured in such a manner - they are not going to be a happy camper, and they may want to have a look at their retirement package.

He is allowed an appeal to the Supreme Court.

 

[acbytesla]

A defendant appears in court. Any previous convictions? No, m'Lud.


Clear now?

We're not in a court room. Clear?

 

[Vixen]

Actually, it's not against the law. At least not in the US. It might qualify as a tort as in defamation or slander. But it would be up to the plaintiff to prove that the statement was false. In Rudy's case there are certainly known elements that would make a reasonable person believe in fact Rudy is a burglar. So, regardless of whether he was convicted or not of burglary he would have to persuade a judge/jury that he wasn't one. Rudy would also have to prove that he suffered damages. Also, that the so called "false statements" lowered him in the estimation of the community.

Imagine Rudy trying to prove that he didn't burglarize the law office or Christian Tremantano's or wasn't at the nursery to steal. Keep in mind the simple fact that they discovered the knife from the nursery kitchen in his backpack would prove in a civil trial that Rudy was committing burglary.

No, I think you can call Rudy a burglar as long as you want.

Massei rejected Tremantano's testimony as irrelevant. In any case, it is impossible to prove a negative.

 

[Vixen]

That's the problem with someone like Rudy, even without a criminal record, perhaps objecting to being called a thief. He's a convicted murderer.... but does he really want to go into a courtroom to prove he's not a thief?

The opposing lawyer would be licking his/her lips..... "Don't get many of these do you?"

It's the same with calling Stefanoni, not a doctor, incompetent. All one would need to do is retrace the cross-examination Bongiorno put her through, while showing Stefanoni the obvious and glaring errors of collection - a collection that Stefanoni's own staff filmed!

Hoots! You don't get many days like that in court.

Nobody's objecting to it. However, when you go to court, the judge expects a bit more than, "Oh, he's a burglar, cos Nina Burleigh, self-proclaimed Amanda Knox advocate, says so, even though no-one can find any newspaper reference to the supposed Diaz burglary and arson and the lawyers say they believe their burglary was an inside job with more than one person."


Clear now?

 

[Vixen]

Too funny and glad to see Migi getting sanctioned. IIRC, this was mentioned in Raffaele's first appeal. I expect to see more come out.

The sheer audacity of Raff will one day be remarked upon by crime writers, like the guy who went out searching for his missing kid, and he was the one who topped her! Or the grandfather who went on national tv crying his eyes out, appealing for witnesses to come forward, when all the time, the body of his little granddaughter was stashed away in the attic and for which he was convicted of her murder.

Chutzpah! Amanda and Raff have lashings of it.