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Gage and Szamboti to speak at New Jersey Institute of Technology

jaydeehess said:
ozeco41 said:
Remember that in Tony Physics "after" means what the rest of us call "before".

This is another example of TFP3 ("Tony's False Premise number 3") in my glossary of Tony TFPs. ( TFP3 == "AFTER and BEFORE are reversed in Tony physics.")

So - in our normal unreversed use of language - he goes looking for something to happen AFTER point in time "T" when - in this case for the assertion to be true it has to happen BEFORE time T.

The same error of sequence - reversal of "before" and "after" - applies to his claims about axial contact - and the "Missing Horizontal Force" - where - in normal English - the column ends have missed and bypassed BEFORE the time he uses as reference point. Stated in the alternate - he looks for an axial impact AFTER point T when the falsifying event already happened BEFORE time T.

And the same error is one of the handful of fatal mistakes in "Missing Jolt".
Click to expand...
Not to mention, 'delayed gravity' wrt inward bowing.
Click to expand...
:thumbsup: Yes. That is another example of sequence errors.

With Missing Jolt sequence was just one of the big four fatal errors. It was looking for the jolt as a coming event when the opportunity was already past.

Or in the language of my previous post - Tony looked for the Jolt AFTER the time T ( "Top Block falling") when the opportunity - if there could have been one - was "BEFORE". ;)

And remember - it was ME who called him on "Delayed Action Gravity"

Whilst on WTC7 it was femr2 who many times pointed to the difficulty of early motion of collapse BEFORE the time of the alleged CD event. The truther claims fro that one require a building failing structurally in anticipation of a coming explosive event.

Astonishing cognitive and predictive skill that truthers attribute to steel and concrete.
 
Gamolon said:
Really? Did they?



I think you're badly mistaken.
Click to expand...

Interesting !
EXTERIOR column /spandrel inter-connection scheme


Horizontal red lines indicate the matrix system of interconnection of the 3 story tall (36 feet)
by three column wide (ten foot) vertical exterior North face of the WTC1 twin tower.
The two vertical green lines indicate where the north face meets the bevel.
The violet vertical lines shows the placement of the bevel vertical columns 200 (NE bevel) and 100 (NW bevel)
The Blue vertical line indicates the exact center column of the vertical wall.
The exact same scheme ofset con nection shown is utilized on all four faces of both WTC twin towers.
Each column/spandrel assembly is connected to it's mate (horizontal and vertical) by high strength bolts
at twelve separate locations as shown by the black dots.
Every column/spandrel assembly is also married at the three intersecting floor truss assemblies
with welds and bolts for a total of twenty one different connection points.

Any disagreement so far Gamolon ?
 
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Fonebone said:
Interesting !
EXTERIOR column /spandrel inter-connection scheme

[qimg]http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j394/xfonebonex1/EXTERIOR%20COLUMN%20INTERCONNECTION_zpsfslsjfdt.jpg[/qimg]
Horizontal red lines indicate the matrix system of interconnection of the 3 story tall (36 feet)
by three column wide (ten foot) vertical exterior North face of the WTC1 twin tower.
The two vertical green lines indicate where the north face meets the bevel.
The violet vertical lines shows the placement of the bevel vertical columns 200 (NE bevel) and 100 (NW bevel)
The Blue vertical line indicates the exact center column of the vertical wall.
The exact same scheme ofset con nection shown is utilized on all four faces of both WTC twin towers.
Each column/spandrel assembly is connected to it's mate (horizontal and vertical) by high strength bolts
at twelve separate locations as shown by the black dots.
Every column/spandrel assembly is also married at the three intersecting floor truss assemblies
with welds and bolts for a total of twenty one different connection points.

Any disagreement so far Gamolon ?
Click to expand...

How about answering the question about why in no images at all can it be shown that the corner columns were explosively severed in order to allow the upper section to drop. Why are there no images in which the exterior columns anywhere can be shown to be explosively severed prior to the upper section moving down?
 
jaydeehess said:
How about answering the question about why in no images at all can it be shown that the corner columns were explosively severed in order to allow the upper section to drop. Why are there no images in which the exterior columns anywhere can be shown to be explosively severed prior to the upper section moving down?
Click to expand...
Beat me to it!!!!!
 
Fonebone said:
Interesting !
EXTERIOR column /spandrel inter-connection scheme

[qimg]http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j394/xfonebonex1/EXTERIOR%20COLUMN%20INTERCONNECTION_zpsfslsjfdt.jpg[/qimg]
Horizontal red lines indicate the matrix system of interconnection of the 3 story tall (36 feet)
by three column wide (ten foot) vertical exterior North face of the WTC1 twin tower.
The two vertical green lines indicate where the north face meets the bevel.
The violet vertical lines shows the placement of the bevel vertical columns 200 (NE bevel) and 100 (NW bevel)
The Blue vertical line indicates the exact center column of the vertical wall.
The exact same scheme ofset con nection shown is utilized on all four faces of both WTC twin towers.
Each column/spandrel assembly is connected to it's mate (horizontal and vertical) by high strength bolts
at twelve separate locations as shown by the black dots.
Every column/spandrel assembly is also married at the three intersecting floor truss assemblies
with welds and bolts for a total of twenty one different connection points.

Any disagreement so far Gamolon ?
Click to expand...
As jaydeehess asked, how about answering my question in post #642 first?
 
Fonebone said:
Works both way Slick
Question <
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11002154#post11002154

Fonebone >
Answer: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11002708#post11002708

Slick <
reply:

Fonebone > I ANSWERED your question !
Click to expand...

You gave an (irrelevant) answer but I didn't fail to answer your question, as there was none.

In this case you're failing to answer and just hoping to change the subject to another irrelevant matter. That's the point.
 
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Simply put this is a group of people that believes skyscrapers and other building types will exhibit uniform patterns of behavior irrespective of any external factors, and irrespective of design application, philosophy, engineering or otherwise that differentiates from example to example.

AND that if they do not follow a uniform pattern then they violate the laws of physics. Essentially there is a subgroup of design professionals that have not the slightest undersranding of basic practice and a groups of people whom follow these people as authoruties on the subject.

Thats about what the last decade of discussion has boiled down to.
 
Gamolon said:
Tony/Fonebone,

Can you explain why we see no corner detonations within the red oval? This screenshot was taken from the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGAofwkAOlo

The roofline is already descending at this point.

Click to expand...



Page 1 of a reply to post # 642


Horizontal red lines indicate the matrix system of interconnection of the 3 story tall (36 feet)
by three column wide (ten foot) vertical exterior North face of the WTC1 twin tower.
The two vertical green lines indicate where the north face meets the bevel.
The violet vertical lines shows the placement of the bevel vertical columns 200 (NE bevel) and 100 (NW bevel)
The Blue vertical line indicates the exact center column of the vertical wall.
The exact same scheme ofset con nection shown is utilized on all four faces of both WTC twin towers.
Each column/spandrel assembly is connected to it's mate (horizontal and vertical) by high strength bolts
at twelve separate locations as shown by the black dots.
Every column/spandrel assembly is also married at the three intersecting floor truss assemblies
with welds and bolts for a total of twenty one different connection points.

Any disagreement so far Gamolon ?
 
Fonebone said:
Page 1 of a reply to post # 642

...........
Any disagreement so far Gamolon ?
Click to expand...

I believe most of us have a pretty good general idea of how the towers were constructed.

Will an answer be forthcoming wrt why there are no images of any exterior columns, including those at the building corners, being explosively severed prior to the upper section beginning its downward movement?
 
Fonebone said:
This qualifies as a "large difference"
http://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1021&context=encee_facpub
Figure 1 Ronan Point after collapse...


compared to this WTC7 after collapse...
363814c71db3d77a2d.jpg
Click to expand...

I neglected to add the link to figure 1- Ronan Point after "collapse".
 
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Fonebone said:
This qualifies as a "large difference"
http://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1021&context=encee_facpub
Figure 1 Ronan Point after collapse...
compared to this WTC7 after collapse...
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/363814c71db3d77a2d.jpg[/qimg]
Click to expand...

And might the post collapse condition of each structure affect the ease and manner of investigation into their respective as built condition?
It was determined that there were numerous construction mistakes in the RP structure, shoddy work which allowed a minor blast to blowout a load bearing wall.
It could be readily determined how the collapse was initiated and how it progressed.
However, what it demonstrates is the error in the notion that a collapsing upper portion of a structure cannot cause the failure of more than its own size below.
 
jaydeehess said:
I believe most of us have a pretty good general idea of how the towers were constructed.

Will an answer be forthcoming wrt why there are no images of any exterior columns, including those at the building corners, being explosively severed prior to the upper section beginning its downward movement?
Click to expand...

Fonebone said:
I neglected to add the link to figure 1- Ronan Point after "collapse".
Click to expand...

Ok, ok Ronan Point. Glenn asked, you answered. It had an initiating blast, and , as Glenn's point was in the first place, that initial collapse propagated all the way to ground level.

Now, several posters have asked the question above. The question stands for both you and TSz.
 
jaydeehess said:
Ok, ok Ronan Point. Glenn asked, you answered. It had an initiating blast, and , as Glenn's point was in the first place, that initial collapse propagated all the way to ground level.

Now, several posters have asked the question above. The question stands for both you and TSz.
Click to expand...

There was no need to cut the exterior for initiation. The core was removed and that pulled the exterior inward causing it to buckle to initiate downward movement.

The exterior corner connections were severed once things were moving to help continue propagation by removing orthogonal support of the perimeter walls and decreasing their resistance to the point where they could not sustain a static load.
 
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