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The Mentality of Skeptics

The lack of evidence on its own isn't proof of the mental state of skeptics. It's the anxiety that certain skeptics get from being uncertain that's indicative of their mentality.

And that is also a pretty much unsupported assertion, one blog post of speculation and surmises from one mental health professional hardly makes a basis for your assertion. Any assertions made in that blog post are not really a rational basis for making sweeping statements about a segment of the sceptic population in any way.

'Uncertain' is hardly a rigorous definition and the basis of your statements is rather vague and over generalization, I have seen many 'believers' also get incredibly histrionic and crazy.

Does that mean it applies to all people who believe in Bigfoot are usually histrionic, no, it doesn't.

The fact that one of the former Bigfoot believers suffered from a fairly obvious psychotic disorder does not mean that all Bigfoot believers are psychotic. It means that there was a sample one that was.
 
Not too far from where I live the UC system has a nature preserve, and they set up thermal imaging trail cams to document wildlife. The #3 video on this page shows a mystery animal:

http://www.hastingsreserve.org/Mammals/Thermal_Imagery.html

They put up 3 photos of suspected creatures that their biologists list as probable suspects. One is a Ring-Tail Cat, and that would be super awesome, but without further evidence they're stuck with three probable animals, and the odds are that it's either a fox or a juvenile cougar.
That is a ringtail. The video is slightly speeded up and is not playing at actual speed, but it doesn't prevent easy identification.

The real mystery is why this is a mystery animal for this agency. The website gets a C- for presentation, and an F for their effort. The suggestion that it may be a young cougar is absolutely absurd. If they have a biologist who declared it a mystery then that person should be fired, or encouraged to run for POTUS.

Near the end there is a rapid glowing blip that scoots a short distance and this may be a bird or rodent that moved a bit. I can't tell if it's on the ground or within foliage. Also near the end the ringtail stops and squats. This is either a poop/pee or a scent marking. It's a ringtail. Somebody over there had a big fail in their local common animal identification.
 
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That is a ringtail. The video is slightly speeded up and is not playing at actual speed, but it doesn't prevent easy identification.

The real mystery is why this is a mystery animal for this agency. The website gets a C- for presentation, and an F for their effort. The suggestion that it may be a young cougar is absolutely absurd. If they have a biologist who declared it a mystery then that person should be fired, or encouraged to run for POTUS.

Near the end there is a rapid glowing blip that scoots a short distance and this may be a bird or rodent that moved a bit. I can't tell if it's on the ground or within foliage. Also near the end the ringtail stops and squats. This is either a poop/pee or a scent marking. It's a ringtail. Somebody over there had a big fail in their local common animal identification.

This may be an example of the "leap to certainty" the OP is talking about. Not being a biologist/zoologist myself, I cannot offer an opinion on what the trail cam is actually showing.
 
The lack of evidence on its own isn't proof of the mental state of skeptics. It's the anxiety that certain skeptics get from being uncertain that's indicative of their mentality.


Before anyone would be uncertain you would first need to post hard evidence. What you've posted so far has mainly produced mirth.
 
This may be an example of the "leap to certainty" the OP is talking about. Not being a biologist/zoologist myself, I cannot offer an opinion on what the trail cam is actually showing.
Yes, it is a leap to certainty and I am smiling from ear to ear.
 
One of the things that's always fascinated me about people who call themselves "skeptics" is their reaction to the unknown. During my time here I've noticed that ambiguity can make these people very uneasy. The ability to tolerate ambiguity varies from person to person and apparently some people just aren't able to handle it. This is weird because being able to tolerate cognitive dissonance is essential for proper skepticism.

In direct contrast to "skeptics", proponents of woo are usually highly tolerant of ambiguity. In fact, many of them actually seem to enjoy it as it makes the world a more interesting place for them. For many of them, not knowing for sure if their beliefs are correct or not is actually large part of their fun. This makes for some really interesting dynamics the two.

There's a great blog post written by a crime writer on this very subject
http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/michael_prescotts_blog/2015/11/skepticism-on-the-couch.html

Excellent thread. Ironically, I was in the process of making a thread very similar to this. The points you’re making are right on the money. I’ve been observing this phenomena since I first came here. The irony of this is that on the science, math, etc. forums of this site there are some very intelligent people that I have learned a lot from. However, when it comes to gen. skept/ct forums rationality, objectivity, critical thinking, rational skepticism, civility, etc. are dead dogs sacrificed at the Altar of the James Randi Cult of Personality.

Here are some definitions that give a thumbnail sketch of the basic misconceptions between a rational skeptic and a debunker:
Skeptic: one who is yet undecided as to what is true; one who is looking or inquiring for what is true; an inquirer after facts or reasons. the method of suspended judgment, systematic doubt, or criticism that is characteristic of skeptics

Debunker – one who holds an a priori belief that it does not exist, therefore, it is just a matter of finding a way to explain it away.
Debunkers cloak denialism in the language of skepticism and critical thinking and start with a conclusion and look for evidence to support what they already believe.

With that being said, here’s what I see going on with the psychology of a debunker:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(psychology)
Closure or need for closure (NFC) (used interchangeably with need for cognitive closure (NFCC)) are psychological terms that describe an individual's desire for a firm answer to a question and an aversion toward ambiguity. The term "need" denotes a motivated tendency to seek out information.[1]
A person with a high need for closure prefers order and predictability, is decisive and closed-minded, and is uncomfortable with ambiguity.[3] Someone rating low on need for closure will express more ideational fluidity and creative acts.[5] Items on the scale include statements such as "I think that having clear rules and order at work is essential to success," and "I do not like situations that are uncertain." Items such as "Even after I've made up my mind about something, I am always eager to consider a different opinion," and "I like to have friends who are unpredictable" are reverse scored


One very obvious thing I noticed right from the start was an absence of a psychology forum. Yet, debunkers are inclined to pull the cognitive bias faster than a male dog mounts a bitch in heat. A psychology forum should be intrinsic to a skeptic site. First, so debunkers can “know thy self first” before claiming to know others first. Second, self awareness, self knowledge enables one to more effectively suspend judgment and more objectively assess a situation.

Here are some tacit Laws of Debunkers that I have observed over time:

Law of Immaculate Perception™ – they are the only ones who see reality exactly as it is unhindered by any cognitive biases. So therefore, to disagree with them is to disagree with reality itself.

Law of Implausible Plausibility™ Trying to make something fit where it doesn’t fit. Every explanation MUST be a plausible and mundane one, even when it doesn’t fit. “It is better to be mundane and wrong than to be complex and right.”
(See Ocamm’s Beard – the simplest solution isn’t always the best one)

Law of the “Official Story”™ (aka. Safe refuge in a harbor) – The Official Story is always right. I’ts true because it’s true/if it’s true it can’t be false. If the OS says it was a weather balloon, then it was; proof positive, case closed. No question, no doubt, total acceptance. This is similar to an Appeal to Authority, but in their case they say it isn’t, because if it’s true, then it can’t be an Appeal to Authority because the OS is impeccable and beyond reproach.

Here are some snippets from various sources I’ve gathered in my research into the psychology of a debunker. But before that I’m going to head something off at the pass. I will invariably be asked for links. If so, then just consider the following snippets mine of my own doing and the link is me:

Perhaps the most insidious rhetorical trick has been the misappropriation of the label "skeptic" to describe what are actually scoffers . As sociologist Robert K. Merton pointed out, organized skepticism is a fundamental norm in science. However, the term skepticism is properly defined as doubt, not denial. It is a position of agnosticism, of nonbelief rather than disbelief. The true skeptic (a doubter) asserts no claim, so has no burden of proof. However, the scoffer (denier) asserts a negative claim, so the burden of proof science places on any claimant must apply. When scoffers misrepresent their position as a form of "hard-line" skepticism, they really seek escape from their burden to prove a negative position.
skeptics like to portray themselves: an embattled minority standing up for science, the lone redoubt of reason in an irrational world, the vanguard against the old order of ignorance and superstition.

And indeed, a lot of people become skeptics for the best of intentions: to spread the word of reason and critical thinking, to arm the masses rather than shoot them down. In highlighting bunk and deception wherever it occurs, their aim is to protect the vulnerable against the hucksters, charlatans, politicians and priests who exploit them.
you'll quickly find that the majority of visitors are not drawn there by concern for the victims of irrationality, but by contempt. They're there to laugh at idiots. But in the context of skeptic sites, the laughter takes on a bullying and unhealthy tone.

The average skeptic has little time for spreading the word of reason to the educationally or intellectually lacking. His superior reason is what separates him from the chumps around him, and he has no interest in closing the gap. For him, the appeal of the skeptic clique is its exclusivity. It's a refuge from the stupid masses, and a marker of his own special privileges. It's Mensa rebranded.


Now, stand back and watch the fur fly:

Law of “Cry havoc™ (and let slip the dogs of war!) Any post that dares to question the “Official Story” is immediately attacked like an antelope pounced on by a pack of outraged hounds of hell!
 
They're able to research the subjects that trouble them, but they will always take a stance and that's because they can't stand being uncertain. Take Crowlogic on the BFF for instance. She's constantly switching between beliefs, never accepting the fact that she just doesn't know the truth.

But wouldn't all the skeptics being afraid of uncertainty just be a mirror image of all the Bigfoot believers who are afraid of uncertainty? The believers cannot handle the uncertainty of not knowing what caused unusual tracks so they irrationally jump to the conclusion that Bigfoot exists (in the same manner that the skeptics jump to the opposite conclusion). Thus, only the Bigfoot agnostics are in the position of being able to deal with uncertainty in a healthy way. And haven't all the Bigfoot agnostics rejected all previously presented claims of evidence? after all, if they were convinced of the truthfulness and accuracy of your evidence, they wouldn't be Bigfoot agnostics, would they?
 
If evidence for a bigfoot was produced, I'd say Neat! Lets find out more about this really interesting important animal. All we need is maybe bones, hide, dna, something like that.
No anxiety. Really. It would not threaten my identity, sense of self, relationship with the universe, safety, none of that. Why would I be anxious about your clinging to a belief and loudly proclaiming it, with nothing to back it up?

This sounds to me so much like christians accusing atheists of secretly knowing god exists. You can't accept that others won't buy into your myth, so you invent this story that they really do but they are scared to face it.
 
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Law of the “Official Story”™ (aka. Safe refuge in a harbor) – The Official Story is always right. I’ts true because it’s true/if it’s true it can’t be false. If the OS says it was a weather balloon, then it was; proof positive, case closed. No question, no doubt, total acceptance. This is similar to an Appeal to Authority, but in their case they say it isn’t, because if it’s true, then it can’t be an Appeal to Authority because the OS is impeccable and beyond reproach.

Perhaps I am too deep in the mindset to see where we are lacking. Can you give some examples of Official Stories that are more deserving of doubt and uncertainty than they are given on this board?
 
Perhaps I am too deep in the mindset to see where we are lacking. Can you give some examples of Official Stories that are more deserving of doubt and uncertainty than they are given on this board?
^^^ This. Of course there won't be any examples. From him or OS. Cause it's not about us. OS is just mad Bigfoot doesn't exist.
 
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We hold a position of arrogance. We insist that we are the only bipedal primate on the planet. We are selfish bastards who use our minds and mouths to shut Bigfoot out of the realm of the real.
 
All it would take for me to realize that I am wrong in my Bigfoot skepticism is for someone to produce a living or dead Bigfoot.

What evidence would it take, OntarioSquatch, for you to realize that you are wrong?

Honestly now; which of us has unreasonable standards of evidence?
 
OS's firm claim is that aliens designed, created and trained Bigfoot to be the ultimate nondetectable being. They also gave it a conehead. The alien "experiment" is working with 100% success as there has been no confirmation of existence in thousands of years and counting. Bigfoot strictly avoids cameras and guns and they will retrieve any of their dead. If one happens to be shot, another Bigfoot will kill the shooter and take the body away. If you somehow get a body the government will take it away from you and not tell anyone about it. It's essentially next to hopeless to try to get a Bigfoot dead or alive.

I'm pretty sure that those are at least some of the claims of OntarioSquatch. He has many more claims about the Bigfoots and their alien creators but none of them approach believability. We are to feel guilt and face our anxiety for not welcoming Bigfoot into our minds. Bad skeptics!
 
But wouldn't all the skeptics being afraid of uncertainty just be a mirror image of all the Bigfoot believers who are afraid of uncertainty? The believers cannot handle the uncertainty of not knowing what caused unusual tracks so they irrationally jump to the conclusion that Bigfoot exists (in the same manner that the skeptics jump to the opposite conclusion).

There's definitely Bigfoot believers with the exact same mentality. In fact, many of the people here used to be Bigfoot believers themselves, but at some point switched to believing the opposite.

Thus, only the Bigfoot agnostics are in the position of being able to deal with uncertainty in a healthy way. And haven't all the Bigfoot agnostics rejected all previously presented claims of evidence? after all, if they were convinced of the truthfulness and accuracy of your evidence, they wouldn't be Bigfoot agnostics, would they?

It's not just agnostics that are good at dealing with uncertainty. I know of a few Bigfoot believers who were previously agnostic up until they supposedly had their own encounter. They still maintained their ability to handle uncertainty.

If evidence for a bigfoot was produced, I'd say Neat! Lets find out more about this really interesting important animal. All we need is maybe bones, hide, dna, something like that.
No anxiety. Really. It would not threaten my identity, sense of self, relationship with the universe, safety, none of that. Why would I be anxious about your clinging to a belief and loudly proclaiming it, with nothing to back it up?

This sounds to me so much like christians accusing atheists of secretly knowing god exists. You can't accept that others won't buy into your myth, so you invent this story that they really do but they are scared to face it.

That's not the same. If these people secretly knew that Sasquatch are real, then they wouldn't have any uncertainty and if proof of Bigfoot were to be produced, then there wouldn't be any uncertainty. It would be case closed for them.
 
They're able to research the subjects that trouble them, but they will always take a stance and that's because they can't stand being uncertain. Take Crowlogic on the BFF for instance. She's constantly switching between beliefs, never accepting the fact that she just doesn't know the truth.
Why are you calling Crowlogic a woman? Have you been fooled again?
 
What about mermaids? They live in the oceans.

A bad skeptic just dismisses them to fend off uncertainty which gives them anxiety. A True Skeptic doesn't just dismiss mermaids because they are comfortable with uncertainty. After all, nobody has yet proven that mermaids do not exist. Maybe somebody will eventually do that, right?
 
All it would take for me to realize that I am wrong in my Bigfoot skepticism is for someone to produce a living or dead Bigfoot.

What evidence would it take, OntarioSquatch, for you to realize that you are wrong?

Honestly now; which of us has unreasonable standards of evidence?

We are to feel guilt and face our anxiety for not welcoming Bigfoot into our minds. Bad skeptics!

This has nothing to with the standards of evidence or whether skepticism is warranted or not; it's about uncertainty being the driving force for many of these so-called skeptics. Like I said before, just because most peoples idea of skepticism is flawed, doesn't mean that the proponents of woo are correct.
 

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