Continuation Part 19: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

Qué? Nencini was never annulled. It was never remitted back to the appeal court, as it should have been if Marasca Bruno want to argue DNA contamination, as neither Massei nor Nencini found any evidence of this. Where was Marasca's evidence? If he wants to bring in the cardboard box - he should have sent it back to the fact-finding courts for cross-examination of experts on all sides about the material or probable likelihood of this.

How can two civil law judges, appointed as politicians, with no experience in murder cases, sit on their well-padded backsides and claim the box the knife was stored in was "contaminated", as was Raff's DNA on the bra clasp, and yet, astonishingly, Rudy's DNA on the sweater was sound?

Grinder - put a check mark in the box which indicates there's one person who does not believe Nencini's decision was annulled.

Let's now do a survey of Italian lawyers and jurists. Start with Maresca. Note the "e".

 

[Vixen]

Yes I'm sure they were banned and Marriott bought them Aston Martins. Very few fingerprints of anybody were found anywhere in the place. I think only Rudi's palm print was found of his. The lamp prints, if there were any most likely were of the last person to touch them, either Rudi or the cops. The lamp was in the next room and had that room been Laura's I'm sure you would be burning her at the stake.

Rudi's DNA, besides not being contaminated with several unidentified partial DNA's, is different because it is not stand alone evidence. Rudi's evidence was found on many items and from the first go round as well as the last. If all the findings of the 18th were thrown out against Rudi it wouldn't change the certainty he was there during the murder.



Really? Could you give examples where the defense was that the person wasn't at the scene but if they were it wouldn't have been premeditated?

Certainly if a person was at the scene and in fact shot the gun the defense will argue it was self defense or an accident and can also add that if the court doesn't accept their assertions that clearly it wasn't premeditated.

In effect, the defense did argue that since there was no evidence of the kids in the murder room, evidence of them in the house wasn't evidence they killed Meredith.

It's no coincidence that as an aftermath to Marasca Bruno's report, the Renzi government has banned acting politicians from sitting as judges in the Supreme Court. It is obviously a conflict of interest (i.e, being the law maker and also the adjudicator, who ethically, should be objective).

From now on, only career judges, who have taken the exams and risen though the circuits and ranks, will sit on these cases.

Nothing will be said, but watch how Marasca and Bruno will shortly be put out to grass at the retired donkey sanctuary to join their chum, Hellmann.

What was Amanda's lamp doing on Mez' floor inside a locked room, and which Amanda concealed from the police and court was missing from her room? Whatever did happen to the ear stud missing from her ear, and which she claimed caused her to bleed profusely all over Mez' DNA in the sink and bidet?

Nice sidestep by trying to introduce Laura and witch-burning. This informs us you know perfectly well the lamp in the murder room is potentially incriminating evidence.

 

[Vixen]

There, I fixed that for you.

In fairness to Vixen, even Hellmann (the first acquitting judge - in 2011) wrote about being virtually shunned for daring to adjudicate his trial according to the evidence.

He was shunned for arrogantly substituting his own personal powers over that of the law. It was an abuse of office and he should have been charged.

 

[Vixen]

Oh boy! Wrong....again.

I watched the entire Oscar appeal. Did you?

The Judges went to great length to point out that points of fact were not under discussion. It's a simple legal interpretation of the Roman Dutch law of "Dolus Eventualis" that is at issue. This is a legal issue and not a factual one.

You are entitled to your opinion of what you believe the B/M should have done, however wrong you are.

Rest assured...they know the law better than both you and I.

....end of...

Funnily enough, Nick Van Der Leek posted a link and I did.

I never said it involved fact-finding. That is you trying to conceal from the reader I understood exactly what the legal issues are in the Oscar appeal case.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen is getting her view of these cases from a South African cut-and-paste true crime writer.

She's also being led by the English-language hate-sites. Of note is that there's not a single citation to any Italian-language sources (of repute) which sustain notions of Marasca/Bruno being disciplined for their March 2015 acquittals. All of that sort of talk is an English-language hater-fantasy.

I never said Marasca / Bruno were to be disciplined. Merely politician judges - which they are - are now barred from sitting as Supreme Court judges whilst in office.

Unless they are fully qualified in law and properly appointed via the career structure, they will never sit a murder case appeal in the Supreme Court again.

In the UK generally you need to be a practising barrister with at least seven years at the bar, rising up via the court circuits aiming for the Queen's Bench (the "Silks", of which there are only about 157), the High Courts and the Supreme Courts (formerly via the House of Lords).

 

[Vixen]

Ok - there actually is continuing coverage of "the case" in Italy. No wonder Vixen does not link to it.

Is it press coverage about the unprofessional motivations report from Marasca/Bruno? Has there been an investigative-reporting on Marasca & Bruno's firing from Cassation?

You'd think there'd be something in the press of something of that magnitude!!!!

But there is actually coverage - of Raffaele's new, Italian language book. If Giuliano Mignini is suing Sollecito and Gumbel for the English language book, Raffaele is shaking in his boots so much he's now published a 2nd volume - in Italian!

And it is getting the **only** press that remains in Italy. So much for the judicial-scandal myth advanced by the English-language haters.

http://www.unionesarda.it/articolo/cronaca/2015/11/22/amanda_gli_errori_e_il_carcere_inferno_la_verit_di_sollecito_sul-68-446800.html

The truth about the murder of Meredith

​

Sollecito says that the guilt belongs to the investigating magistrates and judges, as well as forensic investigators.

A perfect summary.

I can't see any of the UK tabloids or broadsheets feting Amanda and Raff's "innocence". Raff's book is not even available in English.

 

[Vixen]

But where Zephyrgeist really gets screwed - is despite the shoppe keeper in a neighbouring store saying he hadn't seen Zephyrgeist in his store the morning of the grisly discovery; a year later he describes to an cub reporter Zephyrgeist's eyes and doesn't rule out a similarly of clothes Zephyrgeist might have been wearing.

You do know it was a cub reporter who exposed Richard "Tricky Dicky" Nixon?

 

[Vixen]

This is all scary stuff! It's certainly reassuring that nothing like this could ever happen in a modern system of justice.

Relax. In the REAL world, not all the police, all the prosecution, all the reporters, all the forensic guys, the pathologist, all the witnesses, all the expert crime analysts, and all the judges, bar Hellmann and Zanetti, are completely bent, as claimed by Grinder, "Bill Williams", Randy, bagels, etc.

 

[acbytesla]

I see it's Groundhog day around here still. You would think that this little guilter would come to her senses and come to the understanding that no one cares any more. That Amanda and Raffaele are both free and presumed by the world with some minor exceptions to be innocent. So much so, that Amanda is giving speeches at law schools and Raffaele is being paid by the Italian government to write a software app and wrote a book in Italian.

Maybe someone knows the term for the psychological disorder for someone who simply can't or won't accept reality and is delusional. Perhaps they can post the term.

 

[acbytesla]

You do know it was a cub reporter who exposed Richard "Tricky Dicky" Nixon?

Are you actually referring to Woodward or Bernstein who wrote for the Washington Post as cubs?

 

[Vixen]

Are you actually referring to Woodward or Bernstein who wrote for the Washington Post as cubs?

Ah. I thought it was Robert Redford <g d r>

 

[Bill Williams]

Relax. In the REAL world, not all the police, all the prosecution, all the reporters, all the forensic guys, the pathologist, all the witnesses, all the expert crime analysts, and all the judges, bar Hellmann and Zanetti, are completely bent, as claimed by Grinder, "Bill Williams", Randy, bagels, etc.

It's a good thing then that none of those people have ever claimed that. We're in agreement then.

 

[Mr Fied]

Agreed. It's unfair to defendant and murder victim's family alike. In the UK, the case would have been effectively over after an Old Bailey trial.

In the UK, this case wouldn't have made it to court.

 

[Desert Fox]

In the UK, this case wouldn't have made it to court.

I would like to say that in the US, the cause would not reach the court but there are a number of cases which would argue otherwise.

 

[Mike1711]

Qué? Nencini was never annulled. It was never remitted back to the appeal court, as it should have been if Marasca Bruno want to argue DNA contamination, as neither Massei nor Nencini found any evidence of this. Where was Marasca's evidence? If he wants to bring in the cardboard box - he should have sent it back to the fact-finding courts for cross-examination of experts on all sides about the material or probable likelihood of this.

How can two civil law judges, appointed as politicians, with no experience in murder cases, sit on their well-padded backsides and claim the box the knife was stored in was "contaminated", as was Raff's DNA on the bra clasp, and yet, astonishingly, Rudy's DNA on the sweater was sound?

Of course Nencini was annulled...and in the most critical fashion too.

Vixen your ignorance of law is evident. Of course the appeals court is within its rights to annul the previous and astoundingly illogical Nencini circus.

The Oscar appeal result will be revealed tomorrow. The courts can...
A) Refer the case for retrial based on a lower court mistrial
B) Uphold the verdict of culpable homicide
C) Replace the culpable homicide verdict with one of murder and refer the sentencing to a lower court

As I pointed out to you South Africa has a legal system with Roman heritage.

if you want to make outrageous claims on what the B/M court can and can't do, base your arguments on legal facts, not stuff made up because it suits you.

 

[Mike1711]

Funnily enough, Nick Van Der Leek posted a link and I did.

I never said it involved fact-finding. That is you trying to conceal from the reader I understood exactly what the legal issues are in the Oscar appeal case.

Your claims are fantastic. You already erred in your understanding of South African Law as I previously pointed out to you. Now you claim you understand it all....

 

[Grinder]

Qué? Nencini was never annulled. It was never remitted back to the appeal court, as it should have been if Marasca Bruno want to argue DNA contamination, as neither Massei nor Nencini found any evidence of this. Where was Marasca's evidence? If he wants to bring in the cardboard box - he should have sent it back to the fact-finding courts for cross-examination of experts on all sides about the material or probable likelihood of this.

How can two civil law judges, appointed as politicians, with no experience in murder cases, sit on their well-padded backsides and claim the box the knife was stored in was "contaminated", as was Raff's DNA on the bra clasp, and yet, astonishingly, Rudy's DNA on the sweater was sound?

Hellmann then wasn't annulled. By not sending it for yet another trial they threw out Nencini's verdict with more finality than Hellmann's verdict.

It is over. The Nencini verdict is kaput.

You don't seem to understand that in Italy it is not only the first level that evaluates evidence.

 

[Mr Fied]

In the UK, this case wouldn't have made it to court.

I would like to say that in the US, the cause would not reach the court but there are a number of cases which would argue otherwise.

Perhaps I was being a little idealistic.

However, I don't believe we would have had all the leaked evidence, unrecorded interrogations, undisclosed forensic evidence, stolen diaries, false HIV results, drug addled star witnesses, failure to take body temp etc.

Also, I don't believe there is anyway the CPS would proceed after seeing a crime scene collection video like the one in Perugia, and they wouldn't accept the bra clasp and knife results after seeing how they were handled.

 

[acbytesla]

I can't see any of the UK tabloids or broadsheets feting Amanda and Raff's "innocence". Raff's book is not even available in English.

Just because you can't see it probably makes it likely.

Can you please tell me how cell phone communications work and how the police knew that Amanda and Raffaele turned off their phones? I especially enjoy your description about pilots getting angry because some people turn of their phones instead of putting them in flight mode.

 

[analemma]

It's no coincidence that as an aftermath to Marasca Bruno's report, the Renzi government has banned acting politicians from sitting as judges in the Supreme Court. It is obviously a conflict of interest (i.e, being the law maker and also the adjudicator, who ethically, should be objective).

From now on, only career judges, who have taken the exams and risen though the circuits and ranks, will sit on these cases.

Nothing will be said, but watch how Marasca and Bruno will shortly be put out to grass at the retired donkey sanctuary to join their chum, Hellmann.

It's no coincidence that as an aftermath to Marasca Bruno's report, the Renzi government has banned acting politicians from sitting as judges in the Supreme Court. It is obviously a conflict of interest (i.e, being the law maker and also the adjudicator, who ethically, should be objective).
Could you give us a reference for this false allegation?

Nothing will be said, but watch how Marasca and Bruno will shortly be put out to grass at the retired donkey sanctuary to join their chum, Hellmann.
Predicting the future again?????
Is there any reference for this? and please do not point to the nut job rantings on the TJMK guilter site.
Calling the members of the Italian High Court Donkeys is appropriate when describing the motivations of the Chiefi court and the Rudy ISC decision.