PETA stole dog and immediately euthanized her

This kind of mistake is unacceptable. It's not something trivial, like the thousands of mistakes that happen in slaughterhouses each day. A dog was cruelly killed by PeTA.

Things I hate about PETA:

-They are a death cult
-They only care about "cute" animals
-They think killing an ant is morally equivalent to killing a human
-They don't really care about animals
-They want all non-human animals to go extinct
-They are anti-human
-They only care about money
-They hypocritically don't care about plants (other than trees -> paper -> money)
-They focus too much on trivial stuff like factory farming and not enough on fine tuning their philosophical stances
 
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But here is the problem: The public (and most who instigate these bills -- including the HSUS) doesn't have any idea what they are talking about. It simply comes down to the impression that snakes and other exotic animals are icky, so they should be banned.


Well, no. That has nothing to do with it at all. That is a gross mischaracterization. The justifications for the bans are invariably due to problems with the animals themselves, which are not domesticated, they are wild animals and act as such, and are therefore potentially very dangerous not only to their owners, but anyone else in the immediate vicinity. Or they are very difficult to care for, and the animal's own welfare is at high risk. These pets are typically abandoned when they exceed the abilities of their owners to care for them, and there are few rescue agencies capable of handling them.

Other issues often covered are the impacts on wild animals due to the pet trade, which frequently imports (often illegally) wild-caught animals; and impact on local environments due to abandoned animals.

Sure, Burmese pythons are less-than-ideal pets.


That's an understatement at best. Burmese pythons easily reach lengths of over 20 feet, and weights of 200 pounds. That is not an animal that any single person is going to be able to handle. And that is exactly what we see in the pet trade, people finally realize that they can't handle them and try to get rid of them. Worse, many owners believe, thanks to a lot of misinformation out there, that simply underfeeding them will keep their size down and keep them manageable; and find to their detriment that this is not true, but in fact results in a more aggressive animal with serious health issues that negatively affect its temperament.

Herp societies and rescue agencies are inundated with Burms, and simply cannot manage the sheer volume of abandoned pets. That has resulted in literally thousands of these things being released into the wild. In most cases, they cannot handle the cold climate and die. But in the Southern US, enough have been released to create a strong breeding population, and they are currently destroying endangered animal populations in Florida.

We see other impacts from such irresponsibility as well. Red-eared Slider turtles have become huge pests in parts of Australia, New Zealand, and the US. Goldfish similar have become problems in many US lakes, out-competing native species.

Sure, too many people buy improper species and there are some legitimate environmental concerns in a few cases, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.


Again "some legitimate environmental concerns" is a gross understatement. In fact, Florida's wildlife is in danger of being completely destroyed by abandoned, imported pets. Not just Burms, but huge African monitor lizards, reticulated pythons, various species of boa, Cuban frogs, macaque monkeys, parrots, the list just goes on.

There's a reason that Hawaii strictly prohibits the import of pretty much any exotic animal; and some islands have still seen significant impacts from imports.

For example, your 8-9 foot suggestion also includes dozens of snake species that flirt with similar lengths (if not girths/weights), that make great pets.


Care to name a few? And I specifically included that length and weight combination because that is what makes a snake uncontrollable and dangerous. An 8 foot cave beauty rat snake going to be fairly simple for an average person to manage. An 8 foot boid or python is typically going to be more difficult. And when that snake gets over about 9-10 feet and 80-90 pounds, it's simply going to be impossible for one person to effectively control on their own if the snake decides it doesn't want to be controlled.

A permit system (with a carefully calibrated fee structure) should dissuade those who have no business keeping them, while still allowing good keepers to work with animals they wish.


Which is why I addressed this issue. Try reading what I'm writing, and not just go off on knee-jerk rants.

A small handful of exotic herps (not including hots) are dangerous, but the vast majority are safer than dogs (and the statistics back this up).

That's a disturbingly anthropocentric view, given the environmental damage that abandoned pets are causing throughout the world. And, again, I did not advocate banning all herps, and almost none of the proposed bills have advocated such. There are specific categories of animals that are addressed, and all of them are known for causing problems, either for people or the environment; or for which the care requirements are simply beyond the capability of the vast majority of people.

And this isn't just about the danger that these animals pose to people and the environment; but about the well-being of the animals themselves. Many of these animals have highly-specific needs, not just for food and space, but for heat, light, and socializing. Many are highly intelligent and need at least as much attention and care as a human toddler.

Parrots are a good example. They've been considered good pets for quite some time; but the more we learn about them, the worse they look as pets, and the more dismal the outcome for their health and well-being in the average pet situation. They are extremely social, and highly temperamental, especially when they get to breeding age. Many parrots become highly neurotic and self-destructive when deprived of sufficient socialization.

And even better example are monkeys and small apes (such as chimpanzees). Fortunately, these are a lot less common than they used to be.

All of these are wild animals, and most do not cope well with captivity the way that animals domesticated for many generations do.

And since you weren't paying attention, I was talking about far more than herps. There are a lot of other animals that have caused substantial problems for people and environments where they have been released.

Better legislation needs to be on the books regarding pet shops as well, and the shops' responsibility to ensure that their staff and customers are well-educated on the nature and care requirements of their pets. One of the big problems that triggered one of the bills, as well as strong protests from local herp societies, was the way that major chains like PetCo were selling iggies with flat-out lies about the ease of care of such pets, nothing about how big they get, or how difficult they are to maintain. I've walked into far too many local pet shops and seen how poorly exotic pets are cared for, and the sheer ignorance of the staff, and lack of information available to prospective owners.
 
They talk about empathy and ethics, but I could never do that to an animal unless it was already sick and dying.

I mean, cute animals. No problem squashing bugs, of course.

Interestingly, even though I don't like PETA, I do have a problem with squashing bugs as well as strong desires to not harm much cuter animals. I prefer to remove most bugs and spiders from my house to the garden. But if it is a roach, a mosquito, or a wasp, then I will squash it. I suspect I have a philosophy of live and let live, until the bug is in MY house and significantly threatens my health and safety.

So I have an informal balance in my brain- threaten to sting me and I'll kill you if you are a bug, threaten to scratch me and I'll put you back on the rug if you are a cat. But if you are a cat or a bug, and it is you or my child at stake, then bug or cat you are both at risk. Sure-subjective scale, but not driven by some artificially philosophical concept of nature that has not relationship to the real world. And sure, I would try to find a way to protect both the cat and my child, but as mentioned before, my child will be foremost in my mind.

But even though there are people and organizations more extreme in their views of animal rights than my own, who have set their scale differently, I don't really mind them unless they propose something that would be dangerous to humans, such as banning all animal testing. But compared to these organizations, I find PETA particularly evil because they do not, in fact, care for animals more than I do. Instead their beliefs have very little to do with empathy and kindness for animals, and (as shown by their "all kill shelters)" often result in quite the opposite in practice.
 
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I try to remove spiders safely from the house as well. Also got pretty made with my coworkers at a previous job when they killed a skink.
 
Things I hate about PETA:

-They are a death cult [1]
-They only care about "cute" animals [2]
-They think killing an ant is morally equivalent to killing a human [3]
-They don't really care about animals [4]
-They want all non-human animals to go extinct [5]
-They are anti-human [6]
-They only care about money [7]
-They hypocritically don't care about plants (other than trees -> paper -> money) [8]
-They focus too much on trivial stuff like factory farming and not enough on fine tuning their philosophical stances [9]
Let's see if I understand here:

PETA doesn't really care about animals [4], but also PETA only cares about cute animals [1], but wait PETA thinks ugly ants are as ethically important as humans [3].​

Which is it? PETA doesn't care at all about animals, or they care way too much about animals?

PETA "focuses too much on trivial stuff like factory farming and not enough on fine tuning their philosophical stances" [9], while another poster remarked that PETA is overly focused on an "an abstract, heartless, philosophical 'ideal'" [10].​

Which is it? Is PETA too focused on concrete harms like factory farming instead of their abstract philosophy, or are they focused too much on their abstract philosophy instead of concrete harms like factory farming?

PETA wants all non-human animals to go extinct [5]​
A small part of me wonders whether you are criticizing a policy that PETA actually holds, or simply invented weak position that PETA neither holds nor agrees with it because it's easier to attack that way.

PETA is a hypocrite for not caring about plants [8]​
I reviewed their article titled What About Plants, but did not detect any factual errors or hypocritical inconsistencies with their philosophy on animals. You should spell out why they are hypocrites.

PETA is anti-human [6]​
I haven't any idea what the phrase "anti-human" means, or whether it's really applicable to PETA's policies? Given the "rigor" of every other part aspect of your post, I suspect the phrase is hyperbolic polemic which means precisely nothing.

PETA only cares about money [7]​
What exactly are they doing with it? See their detailed auditors report for the 2014 fiscal year. Their 2014 financial report summary captures the following.

They earned $51M in revenue:
- $50.5M from donor contributions
- $6.3M from merchandise sales
- $8.6M from interest, dividends and royalties

They spent $47.3M in operational costs:
- $42M toward campaigns, public outreach / education, private investigations, rescue, merchandise development, including $1.7M toward toward the development of cruelty-free alternatives to animal testing.
- $4.8M toward membership development
- $0.5M toward payroll, management, and general expenses.

10% of PETA’s dedicated staff earn only $16,000 to $29,999
47% percent earn $30,000 to $39,999
43% percent make more than $39,999.

The president, Ingrid Newkirk, earned $40,320 during fiscal year ending July 31, 2014. According to charity navigator, PETA's VP is the only board member to earn more than the president, at about $86,776 for the FYE 2014.

My opinion: someone working for PETA because they "only care about money" could do worse, but not by much.
 
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I notice you did not answer questions like the other local human societies basically hating PETA and them not retaining animals as REQUIRED by state law.

Our attempts at understanding their motives can be completely wrong but what is important that they are not a compassionate organization when they have around a 90% euthanasia rate.
 
Let's see if I understand here:

PETA doesn't really care about animals [4], but also PETA only cares about cute animals [1], but wait PETA thinks ugly ants are as ethically important as humans [3].​

Which is it? PETA doesn't care at all about animals, or they care way too much about animals?

PETA "focuses too much on trivial stuff like factory farming and not enough on fine tuning their philosophical stances" [9], while another poster remarked that PETA is overly focused on an "an abstract, heartless, philosophical 'ideal'" [10].​

Which is it? Is PETA too focused on concrete harms like factory farming instead of their abstract philosophy, or are they focused too much on their abstract philosophy instead of concrete harms like factory farming?

PETA wants all non-human animals to go extinct [5]​
A small part of me wonders whether you are criticizing a policy that PETA actually holds, or simply invented weak position that PETA neither holds nor agrees with it because it's easier to attack that way.

PETA is a hypocrite for not caring about plants [8]​
I reviewed their article titled What About Plants, but did not detect any factual errors or hypocritical inconsistencies with their philosophy on animals. You should spell out why they are hypocrites.

PETA is anti-human [6]​
I haven't any idea what the phrase "anti-human" means, or whether it's really applicable to PETA's policies? Given the "rigor" of every other part aspect of your post, I suspect the phrase is hyperbolic polemic which means precisely nothing.

PETA only cares about money [7]​
What exactly are they doing with it? See their detailed auditors report for the 2014 fiscal year. Their 2014 financial report summary captures the following.

They earned $51M in revenue:
- $50.5M from donor contributions
- $6.3M from merchandise sales
- $8.6M from interest, dividends and royalties

They spent $47.3M in operational costs:
- $42M toward campaigns, public outreach / education, private investigations, rescue, merchandise development, including $1.7M toward toward the development of cruelty-free alternatives to animal testing.
- $4.8M toward membership development
- $0.5M toward payroll, management, and general expenses.

10% of PETA’s dedicated staff earn only $16,000 to $29,999
47% percent earn $30,000 to $39,999
43% percent make more than $39,999.

The president, Ingrid Newkirk, earned $40,320 during fiscal year ending July 31, 2014. According to charity navigator, PETA's VP is the only board member to earn more than the president, at about $86,776 for the FYE 2014.

My opinion: someone working for PETA because they "only care about money" could do worse, but not by much.
Dessi, I suggest that the key issue for you is: do the policies of PETA truly reflect your goals or not. This would not be the first charity which spends a huge percent of income on fundraising and public posturing, and frankly part of what PETA seeks are changes in policy for which "outreach" is probably legitimate. I don't question the salaries of their employees either: in fact I suspect that a lot of the people working for them are underpaid and are motivated by their intense interests/concerns as to proper animal/human interaction.

My main argument is that PETA is not actually an animal welfare-oriented charity. Some of these, such as the Humane Society of the USA, are more radical than others and advocate a mix of policies that I generally agree with, but disagree with some. Nonetheless, I view the Humane Society of the USA and similar agencies as being pro-animal welfare, even if I disagree with the practicality or validity of some of their proposed policy.

In contrast, I see a number of very public actions and statements by PETA that prove that they are not, in fact, an animal welfare agency but instead one that is strangely focused on a philosophical principal that they define as specieism.

You can easily find the extraordinary kill rate of PETA for the strays they have collected, and the non-existent adoption and animal care facilities that they operate. You have seen the statements from PETA's own websites that they are against pet keeping on philosophical grounds and ultimately hope to implement policies to ban all breeding of animals for pets. If you think that this is only the "bad" commercial breeders, read PETA's views on this again: they also want ALL pets neutered and although they urge people to adopt animals from shelters (something I agree with) their own shelter policies clearly do not focus on adoptions but on killing the animals they acquire. Their dream, which they have stated publicly, is a world in the near future with no cats and no dogs. Are their actual actions and their stated goals those of true pet lovers? Do PETA's own statements and actions indicate that they care about individual animals? Why on earth would a true pet-friendly organization be so willing to kill almost all of the "stray" animals that they acquire with no facilities to promote adoption, especially when other nearby organizations are doing the exact opposite?

But again, rather than me go through more details, you are an intelligent person: research exacting what PETA claims and does without a pre-supposition. If you think something is anti-PETA propaganda, look and and judge the validity of the source. Then decide if you support their agenda or not. You might, but be certain what you are buying into first. Like Mother Teresa, their real views and actions may cause you to question their public image.

If you like what you see- fine. I am not even asking that you accept what I see as the facts, and certainly not my own interpretation of them based on what I say- look broadly yourself. But if you really feel strongly about animal rights, more even than I, then support another organization that also truly cares about animal rights. I like the SPCA. If you wish to be more radical in your views of "protecting" animals support the Humane Society of the USA (even though I would not). But I honestly doubt if your views are parallel to the real PETA agenda.
 
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There might be mitigating factors, therefore we should assume them? Shouldn't it be the other way around, until evidence surfaces of mitigating factors?

I don't think I'm making either argument. I'm saying let's assume we have incomplete information at the early stage of an investigation, which for me is where I am in this topic.

It's how I identify questions that need to be asked. When I was doing my experimental design, I called this phase "exploratory" - what could be wrong with my theory? What are the probabilities that information is missing? How do I mitigate this?

I'm not assuming things about the accused: I'm assuming something about myself. Pretty much without exception, in every aspect of my life, my original model about an event has been wrong. It's reasonable to assume I have some incomplete and incorrect information about this subject too, so I probe the most probable soft spots.
 
Let's see if I understand here:

PETA doesn't really care about animals [4], but also PETA only cares about cute animals [1], but wait PETA thinks ugly ants are as ethically important as humans [3].​

Which is it? PETA doesn't care at all about animals, or they care way too much about animals?

PETA "focuses too much on trivial stuff like factory farming and not enough on fine tuning their philosophical stances" [9], while another poster remarked that PETA is overly focused on an "an abstract, heartless, philosophical 'ideal'" [10].​

Which is it? Is PETA too focused on concrete harms like factory farming instead of their abstract philosophy, or are they focused too much on their abstract philosophy instead of concrete harms like factory farming?

PETA wants all non-human animals to go extinct [5]​
A small part of me wonders whether you are criticizing a policy that PETA actually holds, or simply invented weak position that PETA neither holds nor agrees with it because it's easier to attack that way.

PETA is a hypocrite for not caring about plants [8]​
I reviewed their article titled What About Plants, but did not detect any factual errors or hypocritical inconsistencies with their philosophy on animals. You should spell out why they are hypocrites.

PETA is anti-human [6]​
I haven't any idea what the phrase "anti-human" means, or whether it's really applicable to PETA's policies? Given the "rigor" of every other part aspect of your post, I suspect the phrase is hyperbolic polemic which means precisely nothing.

PETA only cares about money [7]​
What exactly are they doing with it? See their detailed auditors report for the 2014 fiscal year. Their 2014 financial report summary captures the following.

They earned $51M in revenue:
- $50.5M from donor contributions
- $6.3M from merchandise sales
- $8.6M from interest, dividends and royalties

They spent $47.3M in operational costs:
- $42M toward campaigns, public outreach / education, private investigations, rescue, merchandise development, including $1.7M toward toward the development of cruelty-free alternatives to animal testing.
- $4.8M toward membership development
- $0.5M toward payroll, management, and general expenses.

10% of PETA’s dedicated staff earn only $16,000 to $29,999
47% percent earn $30,000 to $39,999
43% percent make more than $39,999.

The president, Ingrid Newkirk, earned $40,320 during fiscal year ending July 31, 2014. According to charity navigator, PETA's VP is the only board member to earn more than the president, at about $86,776 for the FYE 2014.

My opinion: someone working for PETA because they "only care about money" could do worse, but not by much.

You're kind of missing the point here: they're an anti-human death cult. In a monotonal voice just repeat that phrase, don't question it.

Also, the revenue figures are not adding up, which means someone's embezzling millions!
 
Let's see if I understand here:

PETA doesn't really care about animals [4], but also PETA only cares about cute animals [1], but wait PETA thinks ugly ants are as ethically important as humans [3].​

Which is it? PETA doesn't care at all about animals, or they care way too much about animals?

PETA "focuses too much on trivial stuff like factory farming and not enough on fine tuning their philosophical stances" [9], while another poster remarked that PETA is overly focused on an "an abstract, heartless, philosophical 'ideal'" [10].​

Which is it? Is PETA too focused on concrete harms like factory farming instead of their abstract philosophy, or are they focused too much on their abstract philosophy instead of concrete harms like factory farming?

PETA wants all non-human animals to go extinct [5]​
A small part of me wonders whether you are criticizing a policy that PETA actually holds, or simply invented weak position that PETA neither holds nor agrees with it because it's easier to attack that way.

PETA is a hypocrite for not caring about plants [8]​
I reviewed their article titled What About Plants, but did not detect any factual errors or hypocritical inconsistencies with their philosophy on animals. You should spell out why they are hypocrites.

PETA is anti-human [6]​
I haven't any idea what the phrase "anti-human" means, or whether it's really applicable to PETA's policies? Given the "rigor" of every other part aspect of your post, I suspect the phrase is hyperbolic polemic which means precisely nothing.

PETA only cares about money [7]​
What exactly are they doing with it? See their detailed auditors report for the 2014 fiscal year. Their 2014 financial report summary captures the following.

They earned $51M in revenue:
- $50.5M from donor contributions
- $6.3M from merchandise sales
- $8.6M from interest, dividends and royalties

They spent $47.3M in operational costs:
- $42M toward campaigns, public outreach / education, private investigations, rescue, merchandise development, including $1.7M toward toward the development of cruelty-free alternatives to animal testing.
- $4.8M toward membership development
- $0.5M toward payroll, management, and general expenses.

10% of PETA’s dedicated staff earn only $16,000 to $29,999
47% percent earn $30,000 to $39,999
43% percent make more than $39,999.

The president, Ingrid Newkirk, earned $40,320 during fiscal year ending July 31, 2014. According to charity navigator, PETA's VP is the only board member to earn more than the president, at about $86,776 for the FYE 2014.

My opinion: someone working for PETA because they "only care about money" could do worse, but not by much.

I feel just a bit guilty that you took the time to construct a thorough and well reasoned response to me. It's understandable that my post wouldn't be detected as satire when it was based mostly on things people have actually said in the thread--a fact which makes your post still valuable to the thread, regardless of my own lack of seriousness.
 
I'm not the biggest fan of PETA (in particular I often think their PR and tactics are terrible), but a lot of the criticisms against them are overblown, false, or don't make sense.
 
I feel just a bit guilty that you took the time to construct a thorough and well reasoned response to me. It's understandable that my post wouldn't be detected as satire when it was based mostly on things people have actually said in the thread--a fact which makes your post still valuable to the thread, regardless of my own lack of seriousness.

My apologies, AR is my hot button topic. I should have guessed a Poe.

Unfortunately, I regularly see AR and PETA discussions play out with arguments nearly verbatim to what your satirizing. Without a winking smiley, there are times when I really can't tell whether I'm being trolled or not.
 
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What exactly are they doing with it? See their detailed auditors report for the 2014 fiscal year. Their 2014 financial report summary captures the following.

I've just downloaded the .pdf, and will read it completely when I have time. At first glance, I'm not seeing anything whatsoever denoting expenses for the care of animals, or expenses related to adopting animals. A cursory search shows the word "adopt" only appears twice on the document.

I see:

Mobile spay/neuter clinics and other vehicles $ 1,287,234
Office furniture and equipment 207,936
Software 1,255,957
Buildings and improvements 205,447
Land 91,170
3,047,744
Less: accumulated depreciation and amortization (1,564,494)
Property and equipment, net $ 1,483,250
Property and equipment held for resale 6,000
Total Property and equipment, net $ 1,489,250

Sadly, this document doesn't contain enough information to determine what they spend -if anything- on kennels, veterinary care, food, blankets, towels, and other items I would associate with even short term care of animals.
 
Pets like small rodents, small birds, some snakes, and stuff like that is fine. They're relatively easy to care for, and not a huge problem if they get out of hand. But giant snakes (more than 8-9 feet long, 50-60lbs in weight), parrots, iguanas, and so on are simply not appropriate as pets. There are rescue organizations full of these animals, and many more that go mistreated and neglected. And they are extremely difficult to re-home, especially giant snakes. I'd be perfectly happy limiting pet keeping to only fully domesticated animals, with a very few exceptions, or with special licensing.

You can take my sister and her husband's 2 Meyer's parrots and their slightly larger and greener parrot when you pry them from their cold dead hands. Wild caught parrots, or parrots being sold at pet stores, I'm with you, but these parrots are all I'm getting in the way of nieces and nephews, so hands off. :mad::p
 
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My apologies, AR is my hot button topic. I should have guessed a Poe.

Unfortunately, I regularly see AR and PETA discussions play out with arguments nearly verbatim to what your satirizing. Without a winking smiley, there are times when I really can't tell whether I'm being trolled or not.


Do you think it is ethical to euthanize animals within 24 hours, thereby leaving no time for owners to find them? Do you think it is ethical to euthanize healthy, adoptable animals without trying to adopt them out? Do you think it is ethical to actively seek out such animals and then euthanize them?

Eta: I should specify: by ethical, I mean, do these things align with your personal ethics?
 
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Do you think it is ethical to euthanize animals within 24 hours, thereby leaving no time for owners to find them? Do you think it is ethical to euthanize healthy, adoptable animals without trying to adopt them out? Do you think it is ethical to actively seek out such animals and then euthanize them?

Apologies for interference, do not mind me and carry on, but ethical? Perhaps practical, but as usual it depends I guess. That is if we recognize lest says quality of life as value and not only life as value.

Once I applied for job in animal shelter and did not last one day. While the owner and manager of the establishment seemingly wanted to help/save every dog she was not, in my opinion as nobody ran chemical tests to determine happiness or quality of life (lol?), able to provide for them. They were living in cages, fed dried food and well waiting and waiting. The job description was "tender?" while the job revolved around cleaning cages. And when I took any of them out, they were all small dogs but did not naturally know me, to clean their cage it was like Messiahs came. One with 3 legs, for adoption. Then I was told I was slow. What is ethical? Should we ask the dogs?
 
Apologies for interference, do not mind me and carry on, but ethical? Perhaps practical, but as usual it depends I guess. That is if we recognize lest says quality of life as value and not only life as value.

Once I applied for job in animal shelter and did not last one day. While the owner and manager of the establishment seemingly wanted to help/save every dog she was not, in my opinion as nobody ran chemical tests to determine happiness or quality of life (lol?), able to provide for them. They were living in cages, fed dried food and well waiting and waiting. The job description was "tender?" while the job revolved around cleaning cages. And when I took any of them out, they were all small dogs but did not naturally know me, to clean their cage it was like Messiahs came. One with 3 legs, for adoption. Then I was told I was slow. What is ethical? Should we ask the dogs?

What does any of this have to do with my questions? My questions are not about the ethics of euthanasia in general, or as generally used in an animal shelter.
 

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