PETA stole dog and immediately euthanized her

Varanid said:
I understand. I think your characterization that "most" aspects/examples of pet breeding are cruel is overly broad.

"Some"? Sure.
"Most"? Not at all.

Don't let the odd segment on the local news covering some god-awful puppy mill cloud your impression of the truth.

But this is neither here nor there as far as the thread goes...
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I could be wrong, but my impression is that most animals who are bred to be pets are sold to pet stores, which is cruel in my view.
 
cornsail said:
I could be wrong, but my impression is that most animals who are bred to be pets are sold to pet stores, which is cruel in my view.
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This is a derail and I don't have any knowledge on the subject, but logic forces me to point out that "most animals bred as pets are sold to pet stores" does not necessarily equal "most breeders sell their animals to pet stores."
 
cornsail said:
I could be wrong, but my impression is that most animals who are bred to be pets are sold to pet stores, which is cruel in my view.
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Sure...if you are talking small animals (fish, birds, reptiles, small mammals).

Dogs and cats...no.

In Central Illinois, I am unaware of any pet stores who sell puppies or kittens. PetsMart provides an avenue for the adoption of cats in connection with CatSnap. Apparently pretty successfully. There was (briefly) a shop at the local mall that sold puppies, but it didn't last long.

I've never obtained a dog from a breeder: only from shelters or individuals. I had a coworker (now retired whose life revolved around her dogs. She was into malinois and did the whole sheep herding thing with them. She had a breeder she would get her dogs from. From what I gathered from her, breeding is largely a cottage industry, not a large scale thing. Also, most breeders will not sell to just anyone who comes with cash in hand. you have to convince them that you are a suitable owner.

Most breeders are not puppy mills.
 
True story. Had a mate who got a got a dog from a shelter. Was pretty normal but went absolutely nuts when it saw a hot air balloon.

I'm guessing the abusive ex owner must have had one

Sent from my SM-J500Y using Tapatalk
 
TomB said:
In Central Illinois, I am unaware of any pet stores who sell puppies or kittens. PetsMart provides an avenue for the adoption of cats in connection with CatSnap. Apparently pretty successfully. There was (briefly) a shop at the local mall that sold puppies, but it didn't last long.
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Central Illinois is not the world. There's one within 10 miles of me that sells dogs.
 
Desert Fox said:
With regard to it being the "first time"
How about this?
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/saunders/article/Better-dead-than-fed-PETA-says-2626614.php

DON'T BE FOOLED by the slick propaganda of PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. The organization may claim to champion the welfare of animals, as the many photos of cute puppies and kittens on its Web site suggest. But last week, two PETA employees were charged with 31 felony counts of animal cruelty each, after authorities found them dumping the dead bodies of 18 animals they had just picked up from a North Carolina animal shelter into a Dumpster. According to the Associated Press, 13 more dead animals were found in a van registered to PETA.

The arrest followed a rash of unwelcome discoveries of dead animals dumped in the area. According to veterinarian Patrick Proctor, the PETA people told North Carolina shelters they would try to find the dogs and cats homes. He handed over two adoptable kittens and their mother, only to learn later that they had died, without a chance to find a home, in the PETA van. "This is ethical?" Proctor railed over the phone. "I don't really think so."

By the way, there is an Eastern Shore animal control. . . This should be their job and I will bet money that they do a better job than PETA.
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The farthest I've seen them apologise for here was for where they dumped the bodies. I did not see a renunciation of what animals were killed, which implies that they have no qualms with killing young, adoptable animals.
 
cullennz said:
Had a mate who got a got a dog from a shelter. Was pretty normal but went absolutely nuts when it saw a hot air balloon.

I'm guessing the abusive ex owner must have had one
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Or it was just being a dog. Every now and then you hear about a dog eating some kid's face off or attacking strangers, and the owner swears it was a gentle animal that would never hurt anyone. Just takes a certain stimulus to bring out its inherent killer instincts.

Sent from my Mattel Aquarius using a rolled up newspaper.
 
blutoski said:
That contradicts the findings of the state's investigation, which determined it was accidentally mistaken for another animal already in the shelter, that was scheduled for destruction.
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This kind of mistake is unacceptable. It's not something trivial, like the thousands of mistakes that happen in slaughterhouses each day. A dog was cruelly killed by PeTA.
 
blutoski said:
<snip>



To some extent, PETA is an extreme SPCA, if you will. They have expanded the definition of mistreatment and have conflicting lobbying goals, but also share a lot of other goals, so there's overlap. A broken clock can be right twice a day, as they say.
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"They" generally neglect to add that that doesn't change the fact they are broken, and that being "right" twice a day in that manner does absolutely no good for anyone.
 
cornsail said:
I could be wrong, but my impression is that most animals who are bred to be pets are sold to pet stores, which is cruel in my view.
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I agree that the majority (though certainly not all) of pet stores are full of employees who know half as much about animals as they think they do, and the animals are subjected to problematic husbandry protocols in such stores.

I don't know how the stats work out (percentage of pets purchased at pet stores vs. those purchased directly from a breeder), but anyone who is serious about their animals knows to avoid most pet stores.

Honestly, I don't know how pet stores have stayed in business in the 21st Century, when, thanks to the intrawebz, it is just as easy to purchase an animal directly from the breeder (at half the price) as it is from a pet store.

There is also the issue of pet stores being full of wild-caught animals, which is an entirely different can of worms.

Either way, I appreciate the conversation -- I will stop derailing the thread. My ultimate point was just that there are plenty of ethical (chuckle), educated animal breeders who produce high-quality, well-adjusted animals who will make great pets.
 
TomB said:
Sure...if you are talking small animals (fish, birds, reptiles, small mammals).
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Somewhat related to my comments above -- because of the economics of the situation, an unfortunately high number of these small animals are wild caught. The vast majority of these animals perish within one year of captivity, and put pressure on wild populations.

For example:
To breed green iguanas (care, feeding, housing, veterinary care, etc.), you are gonna need to charge about $20/each to have any chance of breaking even.

During the Christmas rush, wild-caught or farmed iguanas are about $1 each at the wholesale level.

Aside from the fact that iguanas aren't really appropriate for novices, the problems are largely economic.

Lather, rinse, repeat for most other reptiles/amphibians/inverts/fish.

If the general price of these small animals were to climb near the $100 mark, you could limit a lot of the impulse purchases common to pet stores.

But that is hardly good for a pet store's bottom line.
 
I knew this lady who kept iguanas and she spent a lot of effort taking care of them - special cages, special foods, making sure they are warm enough, etc.

Of course I did once see an iguana begging for french fries at Guantanamo Bay - This was when it was only a training station.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Or it was just being a dog. Every now and then you hear about a dog eating some kid's face off or attacking strangers, and the owner swears it was a gentle animal that would never hurt anyone. Just takes a certain stimulus to bring out its inherent killer instincts.

Sent from my Mattel Aquarius using a rolled up newspaper.
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Did your wife leave you for a Yorkshire Terrier or something?
 
Desert Fox said:
I knew this lady who kept iguanas and she spent a lot of effort taking care of them - special cages, special foods, making sure they are warm enough, etc.
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Deadrose and I used to have a couple of green iguanas; both of them rescues. Local herpetological societies are typically overrun with rescue iguanas, nearly all of them with serious health issues. There was a big brouha here a few years back regarding PetCo's selling of iguanas, and in particular how they sold them as "starter" pets. Yes, iggies are quite personable, almost cat-like, but they require a whole lot of specialized care; and they get big. And if they do get in a bad temper, they have very sharp claws, very sharp teeth, and a very strong tail that they can whip around and cause some serious bruises with.

They are not cheap to care for, they need cages the size of a walk-in closet once they reach full adult size, specialized UV lighting, specific heating and humidity levels, and a specialized diet that can be difficult to provide if you don't have access to a good greengrocer.

As much as I dislike PETAs methods and philosophy, there is one thing I do agree with them on, at least partially. There are some animals that simply should not be kept as pets, period. Every few years there's a big outcry from the exotic pet community regarding some local government bill to bad or restrict the keeping of exotic pets (eg. anything not a dog or cat). As much as I dislike government interference in such matters, I have to say that most of the bills I've seen are not a million miles away from being quite reasonable. The vast majority of the bans are on pets that are difficult to care for or potentially dangerous, or for which there is substantial pressure on wild populations.

Pets like small rodents, small birds, some snakes, and stuff like that is fine. They're relatively easy to care for, and not a huge problem if they get out of hand. But giant snakes (more than 8-9 feet long, 50-60lbs in weight), parrots, iguanas, and so on are simply not appropriate as pets. There are rescue organizations full of these animals, and many more that go mistreated and neglected. And they are extremely difficult to re-home, especially giant snakes. I'd be perfectly happy limiting pet keeping to only fully domesticated animals, with a very few exceptions, or with special licensing.
 
luchog said:
It's a page created by representatives of industries that rely on animal testing, among other things; but their articles are well-researched and supported with solid evidence.
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This is something I don't understand how they just take a friendly animal and immediately euthanize it. How they can do it in their own mind is crazy.
 
luchog said:
Deadrose and I used to have a couple of green iguanas; both of them rescues. Local herpetological societies are typically overrun with rescue iguanas, nearly all of them with serious health issues. There was a big brouha here a few years back regarding PetCo's selling of iguanas, and in particular how they sold them as "starter" pets. Yes, iggies are quite personable, almost cat-like, but they require a whole lot of specialized care; and they get big. And if they do get in a bad temper, they have very sharp claws, very sharp teeth, and a very strong tail that they can whip around and cause some serious bruises with.

They are not cheap to care for, they need cages the size of a walk-in closet once they reach full adult size, specialized UV lighting, specific heating and humidity levels, and a specialized diet that can be difficult to provide if you don't have access to a good greengrocer.

As much as I dislike PETAs methods and philosophy, there is one thing I do agree with them on, at least partially. There are some animals that simply should not be kept as pets, period. Every few years there's a big outcry from the exotic pet community regarding some local government bill to bad or restrict the keeping of exotic pets (eg. anything not a dog or cat). As much as I dislike government interference in such matters, I have to say that most of the bills I've seen are not a million miles away from being quite reasonable. The vast majority of the bans are on pets that are difficult to care for or potentially dangerous, or for which there is substantial pressure on wild populations.

Pets like small rodents, small birds, some snakes, and stuff like that is fine. They're relatively easy to care for, and not a huge problem if they get out of hand. But giant snakes (more than 8-9 feet long, 50-60lbs in weight), parrots, iguanas, and so on are simply not appropriate as pets. There are rescue organizations full of these animals, and many more that go mistreated and neglected. And they are extremely difficult to re-home, especially giant snakes. I'd be perfectly happy limiting pet keeping to only fully domesticated animals, with a very few exceptions, or with special licensing.
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But here is the problem: The public (and most who instigate these bills -- including the HSUS) doesn't have any idea what they are talking about. It simply comes down to the impression that snakes and other exotic animals are icky, so they should be banned.

Sure, Burmese pythons are less-than-ideal pets. Sure, too many people buy improper species and there are some legitimate environmental concerns in a few cases, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

For example, your 8-9 foot suggestion also includes dozens of snake species that flirt with similar lengths (if not girths/weights), that make great pets.

Further, just because Joe-Q-Idiot shouldn't have a given species does not mean that nobody should be allowed to keep them. A permit system (with a carefully calibrated fee structure) should dissuade those who have no business keeping them, while still allowing good keepers to work with animals they wish. A small handful of exotic herps (not including hots) are dangerous, but the vast majority are safer than dogs (and the statistics back this up).

Gah. This stuff is getting me all twitchy. I have to get back to work writing -- coincidentally about the care and maintenance of pythons.
 
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Desert Fox said:
This is something I don't understand how they just take a friendly animal and immediately euthanize it. How they can do it in their own mind is crazy.
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They talk about empathy and ethics, but I could never do that to an animal unless it was already sick and dying.

I mean, cute animals. No problem squashing bugs, of course.
 
Belz... said:
They talk about empathy and ethics, but I could never do that to an animal unless it was already sick and dying.

I mean, cute animals. No problem squashing bugs, of course.
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As I wrote previous, many years ago a woman who worked for the Norfolk SPCA committed suicide because of it.
 
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