PETA stole dog and immediately euthanized her

[Desert Fox]

My friend had originally been involved in capture/spay/release programs in BC and Alaska, and has done research for the veterinary college on the topic. Her opinion is that they are futile if the goal is to reduce the suffering of stray cats. You won't get them all, and a year later there will be a new generation of fertile females.

The idea is, and I have seen it work, is that you have a population of spayed or neutered cats which take up a territory which will then not be taken over by other animals.

 

[marplots]

This is why I'm deferring to my friend who is a vet. Her opinion is that strays generally suffer. The ones we see are the healthy ones who are ambulatory. The really sick ones are hiding, getting eaten, out of sight, mostly newborns.

I hadn't thought of that. "Idealists do not make good managers" is a rule which applies to me.

 

[blutoski]

I looked at the Wiki page on PETA (Not giving PETA hits) and they sem to have something in DC but I bet that is just a lobbying office
http://www.costar.com/News/Article/PETA-Buys-Office-Near-Dupont-Circle/109616

I'm not clear on their relationship to the municipality. They could simply be contracted to operate the shelter.

Here in Vancouver, the shelter I work at is called Vancouver Animal Shelter... SPCA is just the management contract with the city, the city used to manage it themselves. SPCA has another shelter in Vancouver in their own name that they actually own as well as operate.

I'm sure we could do some digging to see if the incident you described is the same operation, or another one that PETA was managing in the same general area.

 

[blutoski]

The idea is, and I have seen it work, is that you have a population of spayed or neutered cats which take up a territory which will then not be taken over by other animals.

Yes, that's the idea. As mentioned, my colleague's research shows its effectiveness seems to depend on the goal. If the goal is to reduce their suffering, the evidence seems to show that it's a failure. This is the concern I was attempting to address.

 

[cullennz]

I'm not sure I even accept the idea that strays should be euthanized. It seems to be predicated on the notion that strays will necessarily suffer because they aren't under the constant care and supervision of a loving human. But is even that reasonable?

In the general case it may be, but for any specific animal, I can envision quite a decent life in an urban setting. Norfolk Virginia, for example, doesn't get impossibly cold in the winter (average low temp around 33 deg at worst), and people may be quite willing to offer food/water. But even in those cases where an animal isn't doing well on its own, that ought to be obvious to a trained veterinarian instead of assumed.

What is the case for killing a healthy animal who is out on its own? It must be based on some predicted and feared outcome and used as a preventative. But it is odd to think that a healthy stray should die "for the good of dog-kind." If dogs are packed-up and attacking, that's a good case, but sans a valid reason, why don't they do the catch-neuter-and-release they might do for cats?

I know one justification for this round up was livestock predation, but then the chihuahua would be hands off. "Kill 'em all and let God sort them out" doesn't seem fair. It sounds like PETA supports animal rights, except for the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Because, if you want to see a happy dog, watch one running free.

Doesn't always work like that in some countries.

We are just managing to kill enough stray cats to stop them killing endangered natural species

 

[The Fool]

The idea is, and I have seen it work, is that you have a population of spayed or neutered cats which take up a territory which will then not be taken over by other animals.

That is correct but native animals also cannot take over from the resident sterile cats who kill vast numbers of native animals.

Feral cat populations should be eliminated by whatever means possible, get the Army involved if required.

 

[Cleon]

Here's the thing.

I can accept that taking the dog as a stray was a mistake.

But the fact that they didn't wait, didn't even try to get the pup adopted out, and just gassed the poor pup immediately makes me question PETA's concept of "ethical."

Even the county shelters here in Georgia do their damndest and work incredibly hard to get as many dogs and cats adopted as they can. Again, those are county shelters, not generally known as a happy place for strays and lost pets.

So while I understand the mistake, IMO that doesn't absolve PETA of much.

 

[Meed]

As someone who has made a large part of his living through compassionate animal breeding projects, I take issue with your broad brush.

Cruelty and bottom-line-oriented approaches are definitely part of the industry (and should be stamped out as much as is possible), but there are plenty of breeders who hold their animals in the highest regard.

That's why I said "for the most part".

 

[elipse]

It's tough to compare without context.

We're lucky in Vancouver, we have a large and relatively wealthy population (GVRD is closing in on 3 million) that can absorb lots of transfers from rural no-kill shelters across the rest of the province. With very few exceptions, all our animals find a home. (some with extreme medical problems take a long time)

But that's largely because we get to select! So the destruction of animals we rejected must take place at the local municipal shelters. The whole system may have a good or bad rate, but our great rates are at the expense of their horrible rates; it's not a reflection of their sincerity. They work just as hard as we do to find homes.

Um...did you read the article linked that showed their kill rate was much much higher than other shelters in the same area, and that other animal rights activists want to change the law defining shelters so that peta will either have to start adopting out more animals, or close?

Eta: and did you miss my posts about a city shelter that dors not get to select and is the only shelter in the area that will take pits or pit mixes, and all the ways they attempt to kill as few as possible, and how all the evidence points to peta not employing any of those options?

Eta again: I looked up "virginia chihuahua rescue" and guess what! http://chihuahua.rescueme.org/Virginia

So why was any chihuahua on the euthenasia block without the shelter contacting these people or other similar organizations? How come I, who was just a volunteer, figured this out, but the employees of petas shelter don't know it?

So many ways to avoid killing either Maya or the alleged other dog (are we sure this dog actually existed, or did authorities just accept this as an explanation?), yet peta tried none of them.

So where is the evidence they actually want to reduce euthenasia rates?

 

[Desert Fox]

I'm not clear on their relationship to the municipality. They could simply be contracted to operate the shelter.

Here in Vancouver, the shelter I work at is called Vancouver Animal Shelter... SPCA is just the management contract with the city, the city used to manage it themselves. SPCA has another shelter in Vancouver in their own name that they actually own as well as operate.

I'm sure we could do some digging to see if the incident you described is the same operation, or another one that PETA was managing in the same general area.

Look, I understand and accept that animal shelters have to kill animals. Virginia however has, I think reasonable, rules regarding animals such as you need to wait a few days before euthanizing.

The way I read what PETA did was to euthanize the dog immediately on getting back to Norfolk (if not in the Van on their way back) - not a mix up, not a mistake.

I have no understanding of PETA. Most people who work for the SPCA do so because they love animals, especially pets. I can understand the SPCA. Sometimes I wonder if PETA is not just some big scam to line their pockets from donors.

 

[The Fool]

Doesn't always work like that in some countries.

We are just managing to kill enough stray cats to stop them killing endangered natural species

Trouble is many people live in places where the Native animal population have long since been eaten by cats so they don't notice any change.

Free roaming Cats are a curse. If you have a cat as a pet it should be confined to your property. Cats found in public should be picked up and if identifiable returned if a substantial fine is paid. Repeats should be killed.... either the cat or the owner whichever is more convenient.

Sorry folks but your cute little friendly puss is a compulsive obsessive killer of birds and small mammals when on the loose.

 

[Desert Fox]

Here's the thing.

I can accept that taking the dog as a stray was a mistake.

But the fact that they didn't wait, didn't even try to get the pup adopted out, and just gassed the poor pup immediately makes me question PETA's concept of "ethical."

Even the county shelters here in Georgia do their damndest and work incredibly hard to get as many dogs and cats adopted as they can. Again, those are county shelters, not generally known as a happy place for strays and lost pets.

So while I understand the mistake, IMO that doesn't absolve PETA of much.

Animal control usually has trouble adopting out ten year old dogs because they will only be your friend for a few years. They have no trouble generally adopting out two or three year old animals. A person who works with animals can almost instantly tell how old an animal in generally.

 

[Jules Galen]

Wow. One moment your sitting on the porch, catching some sun and joyously licking your butt...and the next moment your taken POW and on your way to "Doggie Auschwitz".

The life of a dog can be so cruel.

 

[Segnosaur]

Finally I am not trying to condemn all the people who work in or support PETA. I think that many of these people actually care. Which makes it worse to me, because I see the PETA organization as exploiting, but not sharing, in these people's concerns.

Not sure why you feel the need to be so magnanimous regarding people who work for PETA.

The abuses of PETA have been well publicized, and anyone as deeply involved in the organization that they're taking a paycheck from them must know what they're like. Claiming its OK for someone to work for them because they were well meaning is like saying its OK for someone to work for the KKK because "I just thought it was just a social club."

 

[elipse]

But to give them proper credit, they're very mobile! They drove all the way across state lines into NC in the dead of the night to illegally dump loads and loads of euthanized dog and cat corpses into dumpsters there. I think that's the sort of spirit and attitude that truly shows what PETA is all about.

This needs to be repeated, along with the part about how those corpses were animals that were originally in other shelters, and given to peta because peta came and asked for them, and claimed they had homes for them.

 

[Cleon]

Animal control usually has trouble adopting out ten year old dogs because they will only be your friend for a few years. They have no trouble generally adopting out two or three year old animals. A person who works with animals can almost instantly tell how old an animal in generally.

They may have trouble, but they still *********** try. And they will contact local rescue groups to assist.

Ethically, IMO, that puts county dog shelters and actual rescue groups miles ahead of People for the "Ethical" Treatment of Animals.

 

[Giordano]

Not sure why you feel the need to be so magnanimous regarding people who work for PETA.

The abuses of PETA have been well publicized, and anyone as deeply involved in the organization that they're taking a paycheck from them must know what they're like. Claiming its OK for someone to work for them because they were well meaning is like saying its OK for someone to work for the KKK because "I just thought it was just a social club."

It's not? Oh-oh. But my governor told me that it was just a symbol of our culture, not hate.

 

[Macgyver1968]

Animal control usually has trouble adopting out ten year old dogs because they will only be your friend for a few years. They have no trouble generally adopting out two or three year old animals. A person who works with animals can almost instantly tell how old an animal in generally.

Yes, the teeth are generally used to determine age.

I worked for Dallas Animal Services in their shelter for all of 3 weeks (3 weeks was all I could take emotionally) and it use to kill me when people would bring in puppies or kittens that weren't weaned yet...you could tell by their teeth. When I would check their teeth, and see they were too young, I would always ask if they knew where the mother was, because if they left them with us, they would go straight to "the lab" (where they put animals down) It sucked, well meaning citizens thought they were doing the right thing, but instead were sentencing the little ones to death.

 

[blutoski]

Look, I understand and accept that animal shelters have to kill animals. Virginia however has, I think reasonable, rules regarding animals such as you need to wait a few days before euthanizing.

The way I read what PETA did was to euthanize the dog immediately on getting back to Norfolk (if not in the Van on their way back) - not a mix up, not a mistake.

That contradicts the findings of the state's investigation, which determined it was accidentally mistaken for another animal already in the shelter, that was scheduled for destruction.

I have no understanding of PETA. Most people who work for the SPCA do so because they love animals, especially pets. I can understand the SPCA. Sometimes I wonder if PETA is not just some big scam to line their pockets from donors.

To some extent, PETA is an extreme SPCA, if you will. They have expanded the definition of mistreatment and have conflicting lobbying goals, but also share a lot of other goals, so there's overlap. A broken clock can be right twice a day, as they say.

 

[Desert Fox]

They may have trouble, but they still *********** try. And they will contact local rescue groups to assist.

Ethically, IMO, that puts county dog shelters and actual rescue groups miles ahead of People for the "Ethical" Treatment of Animals.

I agree that they try and not knocking them. While it is a city shelter, I went to the Chesapeake shelter to take my roommate to have her dog euthanized, he was seventeen years old and had become enfeebled. They had animals which could be adopted and you could see their love for the animals.