International Men's Day is apparently controversial

[John Nowak]

When she got to hospital the consultants were ecstatic because it's such a rare injury these days (used to be a lot more common before mandatory seatbelts), and so a great experience for the student doctors.

That reminds me of a book written by an African safari guide, where a co-worker discovered to his relief that every plastic surgeon in South Africa wants to work on someone who was mauled by a lion. He got free treatment and the surgeon gets awesome before and after pics to brag about.

 

[d4m10n]

...we need a day to raise awareness of men's issues like unequal treatment under the law, underreported violence against men and huge rates of men's suicide.

I don't deny that we can find issues like these the burden of which falls disproportionately upon men, but I remain skeptical of the utility of treating them as men's issues.

Take consciousness-raising efforts about suicide, for example. Is there any benefit to focusing those efforts on men rather than telling everyone? Yes, men are less likely to seek help, and much more likely to succeed in a suicide attempt, but the solution doesn't need to be gendered, just evenhanded.

 

[psionl0]

.... the solution doesn't need to be gendered, just evenhanded.

Why do you hate women?

 

[Information Analyst]

I don't deny that we can find issues like these the burden of which falls disproportionately upon men, but I remain skeptical of the utility of treating them as men's issues.

Replace "men" with "women" and see how far it gets you....

 

[John Nowak]

Replace "men" with "women" and see how far it gets you....

I see your point, but I'm inclined to agree with d4m10n here. Prostate cancer is (IMHO) a legitimate male issue; but suicide? I'm not quite convinced.

 

[TomB]

I don't deny that we can find issues like these the burden of which falls disproportionately upon men, but I remain skeptical of the utility of treating them as men's issues.

Take consciousness-raising efforts about suicide, for example. Is there any benefit to focusing those efforts on men rather than telling everyone? Yes, men are less likely to seek help, and much more likely to succeed in a suicide attempt, but the solution doesn't need to be gendered, just evenhanded.

The bolded part is relevant. If a group (any group) is less likely to seek help for a problem, then it makes sense for those trying to raise awareness or provide help for that issue to focus at least some portion of their outreach to reach that specific group.

 

[pharphis]

It's just as much a male issue as female issues are which are based solely on a disparity and not a dichotomy. Abortion is a female issue in the dichotomy sense. Demographics in STEM fields is not.

*shrug*

Again, I think that simple disparities aren't inherently "problems" though I do find most or maybe all of them worth discussing.

 

[applecorped]

All 'Days' are bollocks.

Not Saturdays

 

[d4m10n]

If a group (any group) is less likely to seek help for a problem, then it makes sense for those trying to raise awareness or provide help for that issue to focus at least some portion of their outreach to reach that specific group.

I respectfully disagree. The programs available at http://www.dspo.mil/ (to take one example not remotely at random) would probably not gain effectiveness as a result of adding gender segregation into the process. Everyone is at risk, though men and women are at different levels of risk.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I don't deny that we can find issues like these the burden of which falls disproportionately upon men, but I remain skeptical of the utility of treating them as men's issues.

Take consciousness-raising efforts about suicide, for example. Is there any benefit to focusing those efforts on men rather than telling everyone? Yes, men are less likely to seek help, and much more likely to succeed in a suicide attempt, but the solution doesn't need to be gendered, just evenhanded.

If you give the same message to men and women and it doesn't have the desired effect equally then that would suggest that yes you do need to tailor messages differently to each group.

There really shouldn't be any inherent problem in having a IMD any more than having an International Sausage Day provided it's a positive day with positive messages and not Anti-women.

Refusing to participate at the behest of some busybodies is nonsense

 

[d4m10n]

If you give the same message to men and women and it doesn't have the desired effect equally then that would suggest that yes you do need to tailor messages differently to each group.

What suicide prevention messages would you give to men but not to women?

If there turns out to be statistically significant differences between blacks, latinos, and non-hispanic whites, would you advocate separating those groups as well?

There really shouldn't be any inherent problem in having a IMD any more than having an International Sausage Day provided it's a positive day with positive messages and not Anti-women.

I don't see any problem with the day itself. I do think it is counterproductive to assume that statistical differences alone make any given issue gendered, in terms of the optimal organizational or social response.

 

[John Nowak]

If there turns out to be statistically significant differences between blacks, latinos, and non-hispanic whites, would you advocate separating those groups as well?

I can't think of an example offhand, but this really isn't that unusual, surely? I seem to recall that most of the "Take your hypertension meds" PSAs I saw back when I watched TV featured black men.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

What suicide prevention messages would you give to men but not to women?

If there turns out to be statistically significant differences between blacks, latinos, and non-hispanic whites, would you advocate separating those groups as well?

I don't see any problem with the day itself. I do think it is counterproductive to assume that statistical differences alone make any given issue gendered, in terms of the optimal organizational or social response.

Basic marketing. You target your audience and tailor the message to that audience. It doesn't necessarily mean huge organisational change.

I don't know what specific messages you would give to men vs women. I haven't done the research that would tell you that.

 

[wobs]

Everyone is at risk, though men and women are at different levels of risk.

Like domestic violence then.
Wonder how those that signed the petition would respond to this point.

 

[Foolmewunz]

so you are going all Dear Muslima on him?

Figured that out, eh? The raging clue would be the "but" in that sentence. The point is that "Dear Muslima" had a point, a very valid point. The pedants and nitpickers changed the focus, though, to avoid the discussion.

I mean, that's what this entire thread has boiled down to: ignoring the context of the open letter (university of york) because somewhere bigger problems exist for women.

Why is spending SOME amount of time on a group of people equivalent to ignoring 70% of the world's population? Hell, we might as well not care about any genocides then since it's just a tiny fraction of the world.

I'm not sure where you're going with this argument. The fact is,... we are barely concerned with any genocides, anyway. We only get involved when one makes it up the charts, so to speak. I post in a lot of discussions on the Rohingya. Those posts are not on these forums. I cannot recall ever seeing anyone even mention the issue, unless some of them wind up in Australian territorial waters and it becomes an Aussie political issue and not a human rights problem.

(ETA sorry for the crossover from "we, general, e.g. "the west" " to "we, specific, e.g. "the forum" ". )

 

[d4m10n]

I can't think of an example offhand, but this really isn't that unusual, surely? I seem to recall that most of the "Take your hypertension meds" PSAs I saw back when I watched TV featured black men.

Targeting your marketing in a way that is most relatable to the highest risk demographics is plainly unobjectionable.

Still, I'd never call hypertension a “black men's issue.” It affects way too many people (including my white wife) to narrowcast it like that.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Toilet tissue costs money. Can that be put on food stamps? A quick Google confirms it can't because, hey... it's not food. The same apparently applies to soap and deoderant. I think collectively there's a lot of stuff there that could affect a person's ability to present themselves well at a job interview, so why single out sanitary products?

Say, here's a thought:

Toilet paper SHOULD be allowed as a purchase on food stamps. So should soaps and other hygiene products. If you wish to start a thread on that, please let's discuss it. The response was based on someone asking what the particular problem with menstruation aids was.

 

[arthwollipot]

First dog on the moon cartoon strip, on the whole 'day' thing.

First Dog nails it, as usual.

 

[d4m10n]

First Dog nails it, as usual.

Finally, someone bold enough to say feminism was the answer all along.

Stunning, and brave.

 

[Information Analyst]

Say, here's a thought:

Toilet paper SHOULD be allowed as a purchase on food stamps. So should soaps and other hygiene products. If you wish to start a thread on that, please let's discuss it. The response was based on someone asking what the particular problem with menstruation aids was.

I wouldn't disagree with that, in fact I think it would be a very good idea. The point is, though, why separate out the exclusion of sanitary products as a particular injustice? It's a bit like the recent whinging about sanitary products being subject to 5% VAT in the UK, even though other essential stuff (e.g. toilet tissue) is subject to 20%.