Continuation Part 19: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

No one has your book. I mean really

Are you saying Rudi didn't do it?

He did not come in through the window. He came in through the front door.

 

[bagels]

He did not come in through the window. He came in through the front door.

So it's just a lucky coincidence for Amanda that she staged a break-in involving a large heavy rock smashing glass perched above climbable metal bars and throwing clothes around the room and her accomplice just happened to have a criminal history of being involved with a break-in involving a large heavy rock smashing glass perched above climbable metal bars and throwing clothes around the room. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that this spectacular coincidence helps the defense. It seems like denial to me.

 

[analemma]

<fx Bump: analemma crashing to the ground in reality>

They said many things.
They had a big task, since they had to cover up the police corruption and judicial illogicality and clear prejudice created by the media and the witch hunt and they did a good job of that.
But what they mainly said was that there was not any evidence that either AK or RS were responsible for the murder.
My reality is that they were, are, and ALWAYS will be innocent: Just like the Italian Supreme Court said.
And it is indeed a "joyful day" that even makes you dance.
Now, could we get back to this view of the cottage thing from the road: I think if we get an engineer in on this we can even make a laughing stock of the assertions of both the PGP and the corrupt Italian prosecutors.

 

[Grinder]

You omit to remember the "burglary" happened in the night. By November sun sets in Europe this time of the year circa 1630.

Filomena's window I presume was well-lit and the terrace door not, for police to claim a burglar would have made himself more visible to motorists shinning up the wall than sneaking in the front (as real intruders did later).

Dear gawd look at the pictures. Where in world would Filomena's window have received the light to make it well lit? You're a fox not a mule, why so stubborn?

The "real" burglars (they weren't because they lit candles and hung out) didn't enter through the front door, they shinnied up the balcony by the kitchen and broke a window.

 

[analemma]

So it's just a lucky coincidence for Amanda that she staged a break-in involving a large heavy rock smashing glass perched above climbable metal bars and throwing clothes around the room and her accomplice just happened to have a criminal history of being involved with a break-in involving a large heavy rock smashing glass perched above climbable metal bars and throwing clothes around the room. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that this spectacular coincidence helps the defense. It seems like denial to me.

Begals, what you say is true, but

When madness reigns, it is folly to be wise.

 

[Vixen]

Actually Nina Burleigh thought she was investigating a female Charles Manson until she got to Italy and discovered there was no case at all.

This is what happens when rational people investigate the case. When unstable people investigate the case they create an elaborate but impossible conspiracy starting with three virtual strangers committing an implausible crime up to a mass PR effort to control the media, and then all the way up to mafia connections on the Supreme Court to spring them entirely. IIRC Nina Burleigh asked one of the leading PGPs basic questions about the evidence and when he discovered she wasn't drinking the guilter koolaid he accused her of being a PR plant and made veiled threats to her children. That is typical of the PGP side because the obviousness of the total lack of a case against the students acts as a filter against reasonable people becoming attached to that side.

Unfortunately, bagels, Americans only received a one-eyed view of the crime (cf Rolling Stone) as there was no balanced reporting at all, thanks to the hire of a PR agency who handled interviews and press releases. There was pots of money to be earned in getting the American off (books sales, film, tv shows etc etc).

The British tabloid press might act like harlots in the gutter, but we remain proud our press is probably the best in the world because we believe in freedom of information and appreciate good investigative journalism. We don't have the same lickspittle reverence for our government republican countries have for theirs.

We are healthily sceptical. A lot of PIP support seems to be based on gung-ho jingoism - "The last refuge of a scoundrel" ~ Winston Churchill.

I admire your fellow citizens, who, despite the relentless PR advertising, with concurrent hard-sell persuasion techniques, with all the vervour of an election campaaign can see that Amanda and Raff are probably not innocent at all.

 

[analemma]

There is only a picture of a fox

Can we get back to the road window view thing?

Are there any engineers that can answer this.

 

[Grinder]

here's the washed hand from Marasca:

Another element regarding her is represented by traces of mixed DNA, hers and
the victim’s, in the "small bathroom", an eloquent confirmation that she had come
into contact with the latter’s blood, which she tried to wash off (it seems we are
dealing with washed away blood, while the biological traces belonging to her are a
result of epithelial rubbing).
The data leads to strong suspicion, although not decisive, considering the wellknown
considerations regarding the certain nature and attribution of the traces in
question.
Nevertheless, even if attribution is certain, the trial element would not be
unequivocal as a demonstration of posthumous contact with that blood, as a likely
attempt to remove the most blatant traces of what had happened, perhaps to help
someone or deflect suspicion from herself, without this entailing her certain direct
involvement in the murder. Any further and more meaningful value would be, in fact, resisted by the fact - which is decisive - that no trace leading to her was found at the scene of the crime or on the victim’s body, so that - if all the above is accepted - her contact with the victim’s blood would have occurred after the crime and in another part of the house.
Clearly they are giving a prosecution assertion and then saying even if it were true, including the hand washing, it wouldn't point to involvement in the murder because there is no evidence in the murder room.

They are most certainly not saying she washed blood or anything off her hands.

When would she have time anyway?

 

[Vixen]

So it's just a lucky coincidence for Amanda that she staged a break-in involving a large heavy rock smashing glass perched above climbable metal bars and throwing clothes around the room and her accomplice just happened to have a criminal history of being involved with a break-in involving a large heavy rock smashing glass perched above climbable metal bars and throwing clothes around the room. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that this spectacular coincidence helps the defense. It seems like denial to me.

I am only interested in the evidence. The fact is, random papers were scattered around the flat, including in Filomena's room, were NO Rudy DNA, fingerprint or blood was ever found (but, Amanda's was, mixed in with Mez').

When the body was found, there were bits of these papers found on top of the duvet. Please do explain why Rudy would need to "stage" paper scattered around.

Interestingly, one of these scattered papers, found under Filomena's window had a dirty great imprint of Amanda's foot on it.".

How so, if she was not there and did not stage a burglary?

Evidence shows she was there, and Bruno-Marasca confirmed it.

 

[bagels]

Unfortunately, bagels, Americans only received a one-eyed view of the crime (cf Rolling Stone) as there was no balanced reporting at all, thanks to the hire of a PR agency who handled interviews and press releases. There was pots of money to be earned in getting the American off (books sales, film, tv shows etc etc).

The British tabloid press might act like harlots in the gutter, but we remain proud our press is probably the best in the world because we believe in freedom of information and appreciate good investigative journalism. We don't have the same lickspittle reverence for our government republican countries have for theirs.

We are healthily sceptical. A lot of PIP support seems to be based on gung-ho jingoism - "The last refuge of a scoundrel" ~ Winston Churchill.

I admire your fellow citizens, who, despite the relentless PR advertising, with concurrent hard-sell persuasion techniques, with all the vervour of an election campaaign can see that Amanda and Raff are probably not innocent at all.

I'm sure Americans are convicted abroad all the time, and extradited, and sentenced, etc, to little fanfare.

I believe Amanda is innocent because I cannot for the life of me construct a plausible case against her no matter how hard I try, and in addition to that, the case against Rudy Guede appears self evident. If she is guilty she pulled off the perfect murder, without trying, while simultaneously making all the wrong decisions. And no jury should ever have convicted her unless the phrase "reasonable doubt" simply has no meaning at all.

 

[Vixen]

They said many things.
They had a big task, since they had to cover up the police corruption and judicial illogicality and clear prejudice created by the media and the witch hunt and they did a good job of that.
But what they mainly said was that there was not any evidence that either AK or RS were responsible for the murder.
My reality is that they were, are, and ALWAYS will be innocent: Just like the Italian Supreme Court said.
And it is indeed a "joyful day" that even makes you dance.
Now, could we get back to this view of the cottage thing from the road: I think if we get an engineer in on this we can even make a laughing stock of the assertions of both the PGP and the corrupt Italian prosecutors.

It's a pity they didn't do all this at the trial, the only place it counts.

 

[Vixen]

Dear gawd look at the pictures. Where in world would Filomena's window have received the light to make it well lit? You're a fox not a mule, why so stubborn?

The "real" burglars (they weren't because they lit candles and hung out) didn't enter through the front door, they shinnied up the balcony by the kitchen and broke a window.

Nope. According to John Follain, quoting Mignini, they sneaked in through the front door. p 280. Q.E.D::

 

[bagels]

I am only interested in the evidence. The fact is, random papers were scattered around the flat, including in Filomena's room, were NO Rudy DNA, fingerprint or blood was ever found (but, Amanda's was, mixed in with Mez').

When the body was found there were bits of these papers found on top of the duvet. Please do explain why Rudy would need to "stage" paper scattered around.

Interestingly, one of these scattered papers found under Filomena's window had a dirty great imprint of Amanda's foot on it.".

How so, if she was not there and did not stage a burglary?

Evidence shows she was there, and Bruno-Marasca confirmed it.

Actually papers had been scattered around in the law office burglary Rudy was connected to:

"Then we went into the other room, where the filing cabinet is, it was completely turned upside down. All the drawers were open, all the files were taken and the papers all mixed up on the floor, there were a mountain of paper..."


Why would Amanda stage scattering paper around? Rudy's bizarre tic-like behavior explains more of the state of the scene.

I'm not familiar with Amanda's footprint being found in Filomena's room. I do believe that the prosecution didn't take any reference prints of the other girls so tended to conclude any female sized print belonged to Amanda without doing any comparisons.

 

[Vixen]

here's the washed hand from Marasca:

Another element regarding her is represented by traces of mixed DNA, hers and
the victim’s, in the "small bathroom", an eloquent confirmation that she had come
into contact with the latter’s blood, which she tried to wash off (it seems we are
dealing with washed away blood, while the biological traces belonging to her are a
result of epithelial rubbing).
The data leads to strong suspicion, although not decisive, considering the wellknown
considerations regarding the certain nature and attribution of the traces in
question.
Nevertheless, even if attribution is certain, the trial element would not be
unequivocal as a demonstration of posthumous contact with that blood, as a likely
attempt to remove the most blatant traces of what had happened, perhaps to help
someone or deflect suspicion from herself, without this entailing her certain direct
involvement in the murder. Any further and more meaningful value would be, in fact, resisted by the fact - which is decisive - that no trace leading to her was found at the scene of the crime or on the victim’s body, so that - if all the above is accepted - her contact with the victim’s blood would have occurred after the crime and in another part of the house.
Clearly they are giving a prosecution assertion and then saying even if it were true, including the hand washing, it wouldn't point to involvement in the murder because there is no evidence in the murder room.

They are most certainly not saying she washed blood or anything off her hands.

When would she have time anyway?

Well, yeah, because whoever rinsed their hand or foot in the bidet to wash blood from it , left their mixed blood DNA behind.

Yes, it was mixed Amanda and Mez. There is no getting away from this definitively incriminating evidence, together with the mixed sample on the tap and the blood on the light-switch. It was this that convinced Mignini more than anything. There is no innocent explanation.

 

[bagels]

Well, yeah, because whoever rinsed their hand or foot in the bidet to wash blood from it , left their mixed blood DNA behind.

Yes, it was mixed Amanda and Mez. There is no getting away from this definitively incriminating evidence, together with the mixed sample on the tap and the blood on the light-switch. It was this that convinced Mignini more than anything. There is no innocent explanation.

It's really crazy to think Amanda's DNA would only be in her own bathroom for incriminating reasons. This is part of why the PGP view is so off the rails and not a rational position.

 

[Grinder]

Well, yeah, because whoever rinsed their hand or foot in the bidet to wash blood from it , left their mixed blood DNA behind.

Yes, it was mixed Amanda and Mez. There is no getting away from this definitively incriminating evidence, together with the mixed sample on the tap and the blood on the light-switch. It was this that convinced Mignini more than anything. There is no innocent explanation.

Blah, blah, blah. The photographer enlisted by crack non doctor Steffi dragged the swab along the sink used by both the girls. There was no mix on the faucet.

Read the verdict. It clearly says that EVEN IF it were true that she washed her hands to produce the mix of DNAs it wouldn't mean anything. EVEN IF.

There was no mixed blood DNA.

 

[Grinder]

Nope. According to John Follain, quoting Mignini, they sneaked in through the front door. p 280. Q.E.D::

Don't give a flying anything what Follain says. I thought the crack PLE had the front door secured. Are you saying someone could have entered and planted the bra clasp?

ETA - from the press you hold in such high esteem:

5:53PM GMT 18 Feb 2009
The unidentified intruders broke a window, ransacked the house and left four kitchen knives and some candles behind in various rooms, officials said.

12:02PM GMT 20 Mar 2009
Lawyers and a judge discussed the break-in as the trial resumed for two people accused in the student's killing.
The break-in was noticed during a routine inspection on Thursday, when police realised that a window had been broken.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ers-house.html

 

[Grinder]

The house in Perugia has been sealed off as a crime scene since the murder in November 2007.
Police officers had guarded the house in the weeks after the death, but they are no longer on duty at the property, which is surrounded by police tapes.
It is not yet known when the break-in occurred, but officers have not visited the property since January.
Police said the intruders had gained entry to the home through a kitchen window at the back of the home and that nothing had been taken


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...zarre-devil-worship-ritual.html#ixzz3rnB0hwEo
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

ROME -- Prosecutors say intruders have broken into the house where a British student was slain last year in central Italy.

Prosecutors in Perugia say the break-in was discovered early today during an inspection.

They said the intruders broke a window, ransacked the house and left four kitchen knives and some candles in various rooms, but not in the bedroom where the body of Meredith Kercher was found in 2007.

 

[Vixen]

Don't give a flying anything what Follain says. I thought the crack PLE had the front door secured. Are you saying someone could have entered and planted the bra clasp?

ETA - from the press you hold in such high esteem:

5:53PM GMT 18 Feb 2009
The unidentified intruders broke a window, ransacked the house and left four kitchen knives and some candles behind in various rooms, officials said.

12:02PM GMT 20 Mar 2009
Lawyers and a judge discussed the break-in as the trial resumed for two people accused in the student's killing.
The break-in was noticed during a routine inspection on Thursday, when police realised that a window had been broken.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ers-house.html

They probably meant the door window, a popular way for burglars to enter.

 

[Vixen]

Blah, blah, blah. The photographer enlisted by crack non doctor Steffi dragged the swab along the sink used by both the girls. There was no mix on the faucet.

Read the verdict. It clearly says that EVEN IF it were true that she washed her hands to produce the mix of DNAs it wouldn't mean anything. EVEN IF.

There was no mixed blood DNA.

Fact is, Amanda had Mez' blood on her hands or foot even if as Bruno-Marasca say could have been post-mortem.

So: why didn't Amanda call the police when she found herself covered in blood? The story of the earring causing her earlobe to bleed copiously is contemptibly lame.